The Trump Card...
- Thread starter muttly
- Start date
Documents marked Top Secret found at Biden’s former office. That’s not good, right?
danthewolf00
Veteran Expediter
Nope it's not.....funny they accuse trump of the very thing Biden has done.
They’ll twist themselves into pretzels to excuse Biden.
danthewolf00
Veteran Expediter
Yup they will.
Let's keep in mind that the first classified documents were supposedly "discovered" the first week in November. In reality, that's when they were first reported; necessary skepticism tells us we don't know when or under what circumstances the first documents were found. Regardless, there was plenty of time for the Biden "plumbers" to sanitize the Penn-Biden Center, Biden's primary residency, his beach house, wherever Hunter hangs his pants, etc, thereby avoiding any early morning SWAT raids like Mar-a-Lago. Had there been a similar surprise search of the Biden personal digs, there's no telling what sort of Obama-era documents and other classified materials would have been discovered.
That's the first time I've heard anyone suggest Trump's private office and storeroom at Mar-a-Lago, where the classified documents were found, was a SCIF. If that was true, Trump would have been shouting SCIF in a search warrant challenge and to anyone else who would listen. No way are the storeroom and desk drawer SCIFs.
Correct. It's not good. It's something the DOJ should investigate, and that's exactly what's happening, now with a special counsel assigned to the case.
Just like the MAGA crowd twists themselves int pretzels to excuse Trump.
That's reasonable. Necessary skepticism is in order.
That's unreasonable. That's not necessary skepticism. It's unfounded speculation.
Just a hypothetical scenario to illustrate how something that seems alike at first glance can be fundamentally different.
A man robs a bank and hides the money in the trunk of his collector car, which he stores in the garage of his daughter's home. The police learn of this, get a search warrant and raid the home where the money is recovered.
Is the daughter complicit in the crime? What about her husband? What about her kids? There is no way to know until an investigation is done and the full story is learned. While there is no way that money should be in the trunk of that car we need to know exactly who was involved in getting it there, and in what way.
Did the kids help their uncle load items into the trunk? If so, did they know it was money or was it unmarked boxes? Did the man hand the money off to his son-in-law who then brought it home and put it in the trunk without his wife's knowledge? Did the daughter or anyone else in that household even know the money was there? Did they have access to the car trunk? Did the man have independent access to the garage?
In this hypothetical case, the facts matter. So too in the documents cases for both Trump and Biden. Except for the indictment, which I expect to see soon, the Trump case seems mostly developed and is very much in public view. The Biden case is only beginning to come into public view and it will take shape as the investigation proceeds and more facts become known.
As with Trump, there is no way Biden should be let off the hook on this, if he is in fact on the hook. But, just as I would not condemn the bank robber's daughter in the hypothetical case above before the relevant facts are known, I'm not going to condemn Biden for illegal handling of classified documents before we know the the relevant facts.
A man robs a bank and hides the money in the trunk of his collector car, which he stores in the garage of his daughter's home. The police learn of this, get a search warrant and raid the home where the money is recovered.
Is the daughter complicit in the crime? What about her husband? What about her kids? There is no way to know until an investigation is done and the full story is learned. While there is no way that money should be in the trunk of that car we need to know exactly who was involved in getting it there, and in what way.
Did the kids help their uncle load items into the trunk? If so, did they know it was money or was it unmarked boxes? Did the man hand the money off to his son-in-law who then brought it home and put it in the trunk without his wife's knowledge? Did the daughter or anyone else in that household even know the money was there? Did they have access to the car trunk? Did the man have independent access to the garage?
In this hypothetical case, the facts matter. So too in the documents cases for both Trump and Biden. Except for the indictment, which I expect to see soon, the Trump case seems mostly developed and is very much in public view. The Biden case is only beginning to come into public view and it will take shape as the investigation proceeds and more facts become known.
As with Trump, there is no way Biden should be let off the hook on this, if he is in fact on the hook. But, just as I would not condemn the bank robber's daughter in the hypothetical case above before the relevant facts are known, I'm not going to condemn Biden for illegal handling of classified documents before we know the the relevant facts.
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danthewolf00
Veteran Expediter
What biden did was very illegal as vice president and being president now does not mean he can not be charged with a federal crime....there is no one to take the blame for Biden because he should not have even had the documents period.
It could be a impeachment level matter.
It could be a impeachment level matter.
Until today, I have paid zero attention to the Hunter Biden stories in the news over the years. He seemed to me to be a tangential figure in the political arena and I simply did not care about Hunter Biden. But today, I grew a little more interested because it seems he lived for a time in Biden's home where classified documents are said to be found.
You don't have to read long about Hunter Biden to realize he is a troubled soul who has struggled with drug addiction, and whose behavior may very well result in him being convicted of crimes and sent to jail.
As far as I know, none of Trump's kids are or were drug addicts. Hunter has been. If you have ever known parents whose kid or kids struggle with drug addictions, you know how painful and difficult that can be. As a loving parent, Joe Biden has likely been heartbroken many times by his son's addiction and antics.
Nevertheless, the law is the law and if Hunter has committed crimes, it's important for him and for the integrity of the American legal system that Hunter be brought to justice.
So assuming Hunter is convicted and sent to prison, how legitimate would it be for his father, President Joe Biden, to pardon him?
One way to answer that question is to look at the Trump pardons. How legitimate were the many pardons Trump granted? And what criteria did Trump use to decide who got pardoned?
Not everyone who asked Trump for a pardon got one. Assuming we can discern Trump's pardon criteria, would it be fair to apply the same criteria to Biden and thereby determine if it would be OK for father Joe Biden to pardon son Hunter Biden?
Finally, what was the criteria under which Trump granted pardons? Was there a blanket criteria uniformly applied, or was it purely discretionary case by case If purely discretionary, as the constitution allows, maybe its moot to even raise the criteria question. The constitution says any president can pardon any person, and no criteria is provided. A president can pardon anyone for any reason or for no reason and that's constitutionally valid, right? So, if Joe decides to pardon Hunter, it's valid, right?
I think now. In my view, it would be a disaster if Hunter was convicted and then pardoned by his father. That would gravely undermine public faith in the justice system and forever overshadow any good thing father Biden did in his life. Him pardoning his son would be a grave miscarriage of justice and an abuse of presidential power.
Sure, it may be constitutionally allowed for Joe to pardon Hunter, but there is more to it than that. The consequences of such an act must also be considered. If Hunter is sent to prison, and while it would be hard to do, I would hope father Joe would put his country ahead of family and leave Hunter in jail to serve his time.
It would not just be hard, it would be very hard. Many families put family first in all circumstances. Joe loves his son and it would be incredibly difficult to let him stay in jail when he has the power to pardon him out.
Yes Joe, it would be hard, but it's also the right thing to do and the only thing to do, this citizen thinks.
You don't have to read long about Hunter Biden to realize he is a troubled soul who has struggled with drug addiction, and whose behavior may very well result in him being convicted of crimes and sent to jail.
As far as I know, none of Trump's kids are or were drug addicts. Hunter has been. If you have ever known parents whose kid or kids struggle with drug addictions, you know how painful and difficult that can be. As a loving parent, Joe Biden has likely been heartbroken many times by his son's addiction and antics.
Nevertheless, the law is the law and if Hunter has committed crimes, it's important for him and for the integrity of the American legal system that Hunter be brought to justice.
So assuming Hunter is convicted and sent to prison, how legitimate would it be for his father, President Joe Biden, to pardon him?
One way to answer that question is to look at the Trump pardons. How legitimate were the many pardons Trump granted? And what criteria did Trump use to decide who got pardoned?
Not everyone who asked Trump for a pardon got one. Assuming we can discern Trump's pardon criteria, would it be fair to apply the same criteria to Biden and thereby determine if it would be OK for father Joe Biden to pardon son Hunter Biden?
Finally, what was the criteria under which Trump granted pardons? Was there a blanket criteria uniformly applied, or was it purely discretionary case by case If purely discretionary, as the constitution allows, maybe its moot to even raise the criteria question. The constitution says any president can pardon any person, and no criteria is provided. A president can pardon anyone for any reason or for no reason and that's constitutionally valid, right? So, if Joe decides to pardon Hunter, it's valid, right?
I think now. In my view, it would be a disaster if Hunter was convicted and then pardoned by his father. That would gravely undermine public faith in the justice system and forever overshadow any good thing father Biden did in his life. Him pardoning his son would be a grave miscarriage of justice and an abuse of presidential power.
Sure, it may be constitutionally allowed for Joe to pardon Hunter, but there is more to it than that. The consequences of such an act must also be considered. If Hunter is sent to prison, and while it would be hard to do, I would hope father Joe would put his country ahead of family and leave Hunter in jail to serve his time.
It would not just be hard, it would be very hard. Many families put family first in all circumstances. Joe loves his son and it would be incredibly difficult to let him stay in jail when he has the power to pardon him out.
Yes Joe, it would be hard, but it's also the right thing to do and the only thing to do, this citizen thinks.
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danthewolf00
Veteran Expediter
Think of it like Biden took the nuclear control briefcase and put it in a closet or garage....he should not have it but......he took it anyway and the law now knows he has it and well it's not going to be good for him.
danthewolf00
Veteran Expediter
The fact that the fbi have been helping squash any investigation in to hunter Biden is more damning than anything other than joe taking top secret documents that he was never to have in his possession outside of a scif.
Once joe became a civilian he was breaking the law for even touching those documents.....mishandling isn't going to protect joe Biden when he was not even legally allowed to have them outside a scif as vice president but as a citizen ohhh he is a cooked goose.
danthewolf00
Veteran Expediter
Well if Joe were to pardon his son, would still not compare to Trump pardoning a drug kingpin.....
danthewolf00
Veteran Expediter
One is not the same as the other....if biden pardons his son then he once again protects his son....trump has not done that with his family. If anything trumps family is better behaved than hunter....
Considering the Biden family history and the past acts of many other politicians from both parties, it's plausible speculation.