I paid for mine my self!! 20 years of payment. So did my Dad, several uncles, my son, my nephew and his wife. Freedom is NOT free, if you love your freedom, thank a VET!!
We Bail Em' Out....
- Thread starter dieseldiva
- Start date
I paid for mine my self!! 20 years of payment. So did my Dad, several uncles, my son, my nephew and his wife. Freedom is NOT free, if you love your freedom, thank a VET!!
Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
I tend to think all americans paid, whether it was through the taxs we paid to support the armed services or through service itself.
dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
Can you not have a God given right and then have to fight to keep it?
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...God given or "natural" rights.
I don't see health care as a right, it's a privilege, just like your drivers license. God doesn't give you the health care policy, it's not a natural thing and in the case of the new health care laws, government is "giving" you that, you weren't born with it. The same with the drivers license, you may have a right to have one but you have to "earn" it (for lack of a better word) and if you abuse that privilege, you'll lose it.
Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
People in china are not given freedom, so how can it be a birthright? Or is it just a USA birthright? Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is only for this country, not god given
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
Oiler wrote:
Yeap Freedom is a birth right, and yeap others paid for it as my grandads, uncles, dad, brothers, sons, and myself did..a few of them paid with their lives, i was lucky not to have to do that...
But trying to compare freedom to live a free life and take responsibilty for ones one actions and pay your own way with fighting for all mans freedom to be able to pursue those rights, is pretty silly...for without one, you don't get the chance to have the other...
Oh wait..was that your point...why fight for those rights when the government and unions can just "give" them to you and let others pay for them!?!?
And the people of China amd others have the same right as all people in this world..it is the suppression by the governments that take those rights away from the people...just as we are seeing happen here under your buddy barry and his ilk....but then you seem to be ok with that as long as they "share the wealth with all...and take care of all....taking from one person and giving to another is ok with you it seems....
Yeap Freedom is a birth right, and yeap others paid for it as my grandads, uncles, dad, brothers, sons, and myself did..a few of them paid with their lives, i was lucky not to have to do that...
But trying to compare freedom to live a free life and take responsibilty for ones one actions and pay your own way with fighting for all mans freedom to be able to pursue those rights, is pretty silly...for without one, you don't get the chance to have the other...
Oh wait..was that your point...why fight for those rights when the government and unions can just "give" them to you and let others pay for them!?!?
And the people of China amd others have the same right as all people in this world..it is the suppression by the governments that take those rights away from the people...just as we are seeing happen here under your buddy barry and his ilk....but then you seem to be ok with that as long as they "share the wealth with all...and take care of all....taking from one person and giving to another is ok with you it seems....
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Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
You know, the thing about health care that gets me is, its all about money, screw the life of someone cause they cant earn enough money, what does that say about our nation, money is more important then life? Its only money, a piece of paper but yet we allow people to die over a lack of a piece of paper.
NOTHING is free, anywhere. People die all over the world. Our nation? Go live in a country where health care is rationed because there is NEVER enough tax dollars to cover the cost. There is no such thing as fair in life. Taking my hard earned wages to give to those who chose not to work and earn there way only serves to stop me from providing for my own families needs.
I have paid for my own health care for the vast majority of my adult life. Now, for the first time, thanks to Obama care, I might not be able to afford to any longer. My HSA policy is going to be phased out. I will NOT be allowed to have what I want. I will fined or jailed if I DON'T buy what I am told I have too. I cannot afford the premiums for what the government is going to FORCE me to buy. Freedom? Not under socialism.
Obama and Co. and much of the rest of the elected bums care NOTHING of our Constitution.
Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
then we just have different opinions of what a birthright is, which im not sure what it even means, guess it means what im entitled to for just being born and only if im born in a certain country. Once again dont blame the workers for hiring a union to get protections, its no different then you hiring a lawyer or accountant to protect you. Workers hired a union and got some great things, isnt that the actions of someone making choices and taking action to protect oneself? Sounds like freedom to me, smart choice if you ask me. They made better wages and benes then most. guess the question is, why didnt more people hire them to protect there rights? I dont know why
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
oiler wrote:
And the address and e-mail for the foundation that YOU have set up where YOU pay for the Healthcare of other is what!?!? I mean other then your tax dollars and increased insurance premimums , where and how are YOU paying for others healthcare? Its only paper, so just how much are you giving to those that don't have or can't afford Health care!?!? I mean you feel it is so important that others shouldn't complain about having to pay for the health care of others with their tax dollars...i have to believe that you are working to provide that in some way, since you are so adamant about it only being money...
What other "services" would you have the working people pay for for those that are "under-privileged??? i mean you are willing to give away a Doctors services...you ready to deliver your services at a reduce rate or even free if need be to those that can't afford them!?!? What else? Where is the line drawn??? Where does other peoples responsibility for others needs end!?!?
Oiler wrote:
What OVM wrote....try working in a Union shop and not being part f the dues grabbing union....it ain't going to happen..it is "force membership"....
And the address and e-mail for the foundation that YOU have set up where YOU pay for the Healthcare of other is what!?!? I mean other then your tax dollars and increased insurance premimums , where and how are YOU paying for others healthcare? Its only paper, so just how much are you giving to those that don't have or can't afford Health care!?!? I mean you feel it is so important that others shouldn't complain about having to pay for the health care of others with their tax dollars...i have to believe that you are working to provide that in some way, since you are so adamant about it only being money...
What other "services" would you have the working people pay for for those that are "under-privileged??? i mean you are willing to give away a Doctors services...you ready to deliver your services at a reduce rate or even free if need be to those that can't afford them!?!? What else? Where is the line drawn??? Where does other peoples responsibility for others needs end!?!?
Oiler wrote:
What OVM wrote....try working in a Union shop and not being part f the dues grabbing union....it ain't going to happen..it is "force membership"....
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Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
The people who worked there made a choice to make it a closed shop< now they cant make choices that they deem best? And why would you not want to work there if you were interested in that kind of work? Cause they pay more? Cause you would get better benes? Cause you couldnt get fired just because someone doesnt like you?
dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
I think it should be inserted here that not all unions have the power to get their members higher wages and better benefits. I know family members that worked in a shop that was represented by a small union and I had a hard time figuring out just what that union was doing for them. Their wages were still low, the benefits just so so and safety.....well, they nicknamed it the "finger factory"...rightfully so.
Carry on....just wanted to make that point....LOL
Oh, forgot you were familiar with the area, Oilerman...that shop was the Randall company in Wilmington.
Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
Id pay just like everyone else would have to, but wouldnt be bitter about doing it, this country spends alot of money on alot of more useless things .
Oh i see, you want what the union paying members get but you dont want to have to pay to get it, haahaha, you want to free load, lol Btw, there are open shops in the south
Why is Michigan NOT a "Right to Work" State? The unions are fighting it, why? They lose control. What is good about it? MORE FREEDOM. NO one should be FORCED into a union. If I own a company I should have control over it, 100%, period. I took the risk to start it. I take the risk to run it. NO ONE should tell me how to run my business. Why is freedom such a bad thing in so many peoples eyes?
Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
Your right, not all unions make better money or benes, makes me wonder just what was going on in that shop for the workers to vote a union in. And the safety thing should be addressed union or not, there should be no excuses for unsafe working conditions
Sometimes there are bad things going on, bad management, poor treatment etc. Sometimes union just strong arm their way into places where they are not needed. Just to get more members. They are NOT opposed to threats, beatings and even killing if it suits the need. There are good and bad in companies and unions.
Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
Thats funny, more freedom if you allow the company to do everything they want, Your kidding me right? Your not forced to join a union, remember your choice thing, dont work there, see, solved.
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
Oiler wrote:
Ahhh no! If I don't join the union , I don't what their benefits or representation either....
and OVM stated a CLOSED SHOP.....not ALL union shops are open to non-union employment, more are "forced membership..."
Ovm wrote:
You didn't, I did! Those "..." marked the end of one statement anf the next statement started after them....
Ahhh no! If I don't join the union , I don't what their benefits or representation either....
and OVM stated a CLOSED SHOP.....not ALL union shops are open to non-union employment, more are "forced membership..."
Ovm wrote:
You didn't, I did! Those "..." marked the end of one statement anf the next statement started after them....
Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
Nor are companies afraid to use threats and such.
Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
Oiler wrote:
Ahhh no! If I don't join the union , I don't what their benefits or representation either....
and OVM stated a CLOSED SHOP.....not ALL union shops are open to non-union employment, more are "forced membership..."
Ovm wrote:
You didn't, I did! Those "..." marked the end of one statement anf the next statement started after them....
If the workers there wanted an open shop then they could take the steps to make it an open shop, they are making choices to keep it closed. see, choices is a good thing