We Bail Em' Out....

[layoutshooter]

Layout, you have to be like 85 years old my man. You would have to be that old in order to do all the things that you say you have done. If you are 85 and runnin' expedite, God bless you brother.

Well, I can show proof of everything that I have done in my life if you so chose to come by the house sometime and see it. It is all documented. OR, you can just be rude or even call me a liar. Your choice, matters not to me. I guess I should apologize for working hard, succeeding at most things I tried and living a varied and exciting life. But I won't. I am not quite 60 by the way. STILL more than enough time for another career or two.

By the way, I started working at 11, I am now 59. That is 48 years in the work force. A LOT of time to do many things.

 

[greg334]

Really, that strict eh? If a trucker breaks the law, fire him, regardless if its speeding, running a stop sign, bypassing a weigh statio, fire them. they broke the rules, they broke the law, fire them. And the guy you spoke to speaks for all? get real, he was a jerk. In 31 yrs i never showed my union card.

Actually the guy who I spoke to did speak for the entire union at one time. If I remember right YOU guys voted him in as President of the UAW - Doug Fraser. I met him when he was a visiting professor at Lawrence Institute of Technology, he was teaching labor history and labor relations and government at Wayne State and taught a few classes at Lawrence back in the 80's, I attended all of them. I got to see him later on when he was visiting with Lynn Townsend while I was working at Townsend's home in 1992 and that's where I asked him that question.

I apologize, I should have said safety and drug policies of the company and the regulations of the government, not the rules. But nevertheless there is a BIG difference between using drugs and working and a trucker speeding.

You, like many of your brothers and sisters seem to justify the pos's doing almost anything in the plants as part of the culture because they are union. How many times does it make sense to keep people on the payroll when they should lose their jobs because they know what the rules are and still break them with serious issues like drug use?

What if their drug test come back positive?

No problem, suspension with pay and drug rehab - that's a joke.

If a trucker faced a positive, it is a termination of a contract - FedEx, Landstar and Panther all the same and should be with US express, Hunt and a lot of others.

 

[witness23]

If a trucker faced a positive, it is a termination of a contract - FedEx, Landstar and Panther all the same and should be with US express, Hunt and a lot of others.

The company you work for or contracted to does have to refer you to a drug and or alcohol rehab though if you come up dirty.

 

[layoutshooter]

The company you work for or contracted to does have to refer you to a drug and or alcohol rehab though if you come up dirty.

Really? I did not know that. They don't have to pay for it do they? I know with FDCC if I test bad and it is proven not to be a false test, I am toast, as I should be. No drinking and driving or doing illegal drugs. No problem.

 

[greg334]

The company you work for or contracted to does have to refer you to a drug and or alcohol rehab though if you come up dirty.

Actually YES they 'have to' refer you but that does not mean a termination does not happen. Because their involvement ends the second the termination takes effect under CFR 382.605, there is no more reason for them to be involved with a contractor at that point.

No they don't have to pay for it.

 

[layoutshooter]

Actually YES they 'have to' refer you but that does not mean a termination does not happen. Because their involvement ends the second the termination takes effect under CFR 382.605, there is no more reason for them to be involved with a contractor at that point.

No they don't have to pay for it.

Good, it is not a carriers responsibility to pay for others bad life choices.

 

[Crazynuff]

Really? I did not know that. They don't have to pay for it do they? I know with FDCC if I test bad and it is proven not to be a false test, I am toast, as I should be. No drinking and driving or doing illegal drugs. No problem.

http://www.dot.gov/ost/dapc/NEW_DOCS/subpart_o/40_287.pdf
If a drug test shows positive the MRO can't contact the employer without first interviewing the driver . Here's the regulations .
Overview of Drug and Alcohol Testing Rules (English) - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

 

[Oilerman1957]

Actually the guy who I spoke to did speak for the entire union at one time. If I remember right YOU guys voted him in as President of the UAW - Doug Fraser. I met him when he was a visiting professor at Lawrence Institute of Technology, he was teaching labor history and labor relations and government at Wayne State and taught a few classes at Lawrence back in the 80's, I attended all of them. I got to see him later on when he was visiting with Lynn Townsend while I was working at Townsend's home in 1992 and that's where I asked him that question.

I apologize, I should have said safety and drug policies of the company and the regulations of the government, not the rules. But nevertheless there is a BIG difference between using drugs and working and a trucker speeding.

You, like many of your brothers and sisters seem to justify the pos's doing almost anything in the plants as part of the culture because they are union. How many times does it make sense to keep people on the payroll when they should lose their jobs because they know what the rules are and still break them with serious issues like drug use?



What if their drug test come back positive?

No problem, suspension with pay and drug rehab - that's a joke.

If a trucker faced a positive, it is a termination of a contract - FedEx, Landstar and Panther all the same and should be with US express, Hunt and a lot of others.

First, the workers on the floor do not vote in International positions, only local positions. They have some convention to vote in International jobs, kinda rigged? you bet

If Fraser made those comments to someone who would repeat them, then he s a jerk and a few other choice names, but heck, when was he in charge? 20 yrs ago? Im trying to tell you things are not done the same way anymore, stop going back to what when on 20 yrs ago or the people that were in charge back then, ITS CHANGED!!!!

What if there drug tests come back positive? What happans is they will be fired, offered to get there job back by going to rehab, complete rehab, then subject to random drug tests for the next 3 yrs, come back dirty again? fired, no chance of returning, these are the new rules, Oh yea, no pay while you are in rehab.

As to why the company pays for rehab< The company agreed to pay for rehab per the contract they signed, just as you get things from the contract you signed.

Truckers speeding?, I wonder what the numbers are on that statement, do you think more workers have been harmed by people on drugs then by truckers speeding? that would be an interesting figure

 

[layoutshooter]

I am all for giving a person ONE break IF they are really serious about rehab...why punish a whole family ( if a family person) any more then that person has already done ...to take his paycheck away for a lack of good judgment... If that person has shown good work habits up to this point and no incidents/accidents on job....case by case scenerio

That is not unionism, Just humanity...

Again, OVM, the person who was stupid enough to do this did it to their family, NOT the company.

You can give all the breaks you want, you can pay for those breaks as well, we, the consumer, should not have too. All those costs get passed on to us.

What ever happened to the idea that each individual is responsible for his or her own life? The idea that a "company" or a "union" or any other person or entity is responsible for someone else is silly. Once a person becomes an adult they should be 100% responsible for their actions and their life. That includes health care, housing, food etc. Why would anyone one want to be "cared for". In other words, be a "kept person" or a ward of the state? I cannot see how any person of sound mind and body would want anything other than to control every aspect of their lives. To accomplish, or fail, on their own.

In this case being discussed, they did it on company property. End of story.

 

[layoutshooter]

whoa...I did not say I'd pay for it.....I'd give them the break only....if they are serious they can do the paying...

When the company pays for it, WE do. They pass on every cost to the consumer. Our insurance costs are based on the cost of services provided. A policy that provides this service costs more than one that does not. If a company provides the insurance, we pay for it.

 

[layoutshooter]

As I said..the worker would have to pay and make all the arrangements...a show of sincerity..

Yeah, well, shuda cudda. That is not how it is. Will have to argue later, Shopping time!! Time to stock up for what we hope is another REALLY good week!! Catch ya on the flip side!!

 

[Oilerman1957]

Again, OVM, the person who was stupid enough to do this did it to their family, NOT the company.

You can give all the breaks you want, you can pay for those breaks as well, we, the consumer, should not have too. All those costs get passed on to us.

What ever happened to the idea that each individual is responsible for his or her own life? The idea that a "company" or a "union" or any other person or entity is responsible for someone else is silly. Once a person becomes an adult they should be 100% responsible for their actions and their life. That includes health care, housing, food etc. Why would anyone one want to be "cared for". In other words, be a "kept person" or a ward of the state? I cannot see how any person of sound mind and body would want anything other than to control every aspect of their lives. To accomplish, or fail, on their own.

In this case being discussed, they did it on company property. End of story.

Yea, god forbid a human being does something stupid in this world, if a company choses to HELP someone with a problem then good for them, that doesnt mean they are being taken care of or that the company is being responsible for them, it means they care enough to help someone that has a problem. You have a choice to, if you dont believe that company should be helping employees in a certain manner then dont buy there products and therefore it doesnt cost you a dime in the so called passed on cost Thas part of the problem in this world today, we judge people without understanding that not all people are created equal, not everyone can be a football star, or work there way up to mangement, some just wont ever make it there, this world has people in all phases of life and to put 1 standard on everyone will not work

 

[chefdennis]

Oiler wrote:

that not all people are created equal, not everyone can be a football star, or work there way up to mangement, some just wont ever make it there,

Poor babies.....

 

[layoutshooter]

Yea, god forbid a human being does something stupid in this world, if a company choses to HELP someone with a problem then good for them, that doesnt mean they are being taken care of or that the company is being responsible for them, it means they care enough to help someone that has a problem. You have a choice to, if you dont believe that company should be helping employees in a certain manner then dont buy there products and therefore it doesnt cost you a dime in the so called passed on cost Thas part of the problem in this world today, we judge people without understanding that not all people are created equal, not everyone can be a football star, or work there way up to mangement, some just wont ever make it there, this world has people in all phases of life and to put 1 standard on everyone will not work

First off, no reason to get angry, this is NOT a personal discussion.

I DON'T have a choice if I want to buy a car from a US company. They are ALL union and all have the same basic contracts. If the company pays for, I have too. OR, I can buy a non-union, non American made car and more union workers will lose their jobs.

Yes, EVERYONE has a chance to move up, or down, as they wish. NO ONE is FORCED to work on the line, in a factory or even for someone else. Each of us makes those choices for our selves. The problem is that many have forgotten that they chose the life they have. I made my choices, I live with them. So should everyone else. Not happy with how things turned out? Look in the mirror. We are ALL the products of our own choices.

I was not judging those poor choices, they are allowed to screw up their lives as much as they want. Their choice. When people screw up they need to take their lumps and get on with life. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. In other words, there are consiquences to bad choices. Those who make those choices SHOULD be the ones to pay for them.

Even football stars make bad choices. They seem to make more than normal people do. Bad example.

 

[dieseldiva]

Maybe the bottom line is this.......If I'm unemployed and desperate for work, and cannot find anything but part-time, low-paying jobs.......I'm going to be more disgusted and furious than anyone when I see this.

When we're out and about, and we get "bad service" somewhere, whether it's fast food or retail stores, I cannot help but think that if these folks don't have any interest in doing their jobs correctly, there's many, many others out there that will.

 

[layoutshooter]

Maybe the bottom line is this.......If I'm unemployed and desperate for work, and cannot find anything but part-time, low-paying jobs.......I'm going to be more disgusted and furious than anyone when I see this.

When we're out and about, and we get "bad service" somewhere, whether it's fast food or retail stores, I cannot help but think that if these folks don't have any interest in doing their jobs correctly, there's many, many others out there that will.

When a person hires on to a company they agree to do certain work for a given wage. They, assuming they are people with pride and honor, do the BEST they are able to do in return for that wage. Don't like that job, too bad. You still do your best, until you find another, just quit, or work there for 30 years. That person CHOSE that job. The company in required to insure that the wage agreed to is paid correctly and on time. They are required to provide a safe work place. They do NOT owe you a job.

 

[Oilerman1957]

First off, no reason to get angry, this is NOT a personal discussion.

I DON'T have a choice if I want to buy a car from a US company. They are ALL union and all have the same basic contracts. If the company pays for, I have too. OR, I can buy a non-union, non American made car and more union workers will lose their jobs.

Yes, EVERYONE has a chance to move up, or down, as they wish. NO ONE is FORCED to work on the line, in a factory or even for someone else. Each of us makes those choices for our selves. The problem is that many have forgotten that they chose the life they have. I made my choices, I live with them. So should everyone else. Not happy with how things turned out? Look in the mirror. We are ALL the products of our own choices.

I was not judging those poor choices, they are allowed to screw up their lives as much as they want. Their choice. When people screw up they need to take their lumps and get on with life. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. In other words, there are consiquences to bad choices. Those who make those choices SHOULD be the ones to pay for them.

Even football stars make bad choices. They seem to make more than normal people do. Bad example.

No not everyone has a choice, how do you even think that. are you living in a different world?, and im not angry, but i dont understand how you think everyone has the same opportunties in this life cause that no where near the truth. Someone who grows up in a getto area does not have the same opportunties as someone who goes to a private school.
Not everyone can go to college, sure there is some help but then you would have to say they are getting help from the same gov that you say shouldnt help anyone.

I wasnt talking about football players making mistakes, I was talking about not everyone can do what they want. not everyone can be a football player if they chose. I doubt that most would choose to be a truck driver if they could just pick whatever job they want and before you say they made the choice to be a truck driver, maybe they just made that choice based on what they could do to feed there family and not on the basis on what they really would like to do.

 

[Oilerman1957]

Oiler wrote:



Poor babies.....

And you, ur just funny, you act as though people envy you and ur job choices, Id take my job back at GM over your choices any day of the week, you have nothing but smart a** remarks to give.

 

[layoutshooter]

No not everyone has a choice, how do you even think that. are you living in a different world?, and im not angry, but i dont understand how you think everyone has the same opportunties in this life cause that no where near the truth. Someone who grows up in a getto area does not have the same opportunties as someone who goes to a private school.
Not everyone can go to college, sure there is some help but then you would have to say they are getting help from the same gov that you say shouldnt help anyone.

I wasnt talking about football players making mistakes, I was talking about not everyone can do what they want. not everyone can be a football player if they chose. I doubt that most would choose to be a truck driver if they could just pick whatever job they want and before you say they made the choice to be a truck driver, maybe they just made that choice based on what they could do to feed there family and not on the basis on what they really would like to do.

There has NEVER been a point in my life when I did NOT have a choice. Not all have had good options, but EVERYONE has a choice. Many from the getto have chosen to get out, and DID IT. I worked with several people at the agency, most in fact, that did NOT come from privileged families. I myself am the son of a miner. I wanted more, I got it. College has NOTHING to do with success, personal drive does.

When I got out of high school I CHOSE to go to work on the line at the Wayne Ford it sucked. I would not have stayed there.

I had a choice when my draft time came up, not good choices, so I did the best I could. I COULD have ran away. I did not. I COULD have just waited for the draft and been cannon fodder, I did not. I CHOSE to enlist to have SOME control over my life.

I CHOSE not to get a degree.

Everyone has choices. I have yet to meet that person that did not. The choices may not have given many options but they are ALWAYS there. Remember the men that started Wendy's and Dominoes pizza were raised in an orphanage.

I am glad your not mad. This is the basic discussion that is going on in this country today. This argument is the very division we see in our politics.

Liberals, socialists, what ever you chose to call them, believe that man is NOT able to take care of himself and the they, the smarter and more compassionate, must do that for them.

Conservatives or what ever you call them, believe that everyone can decide better how to live their lives themselves. No one is smart enough or compassionate enough to provide a better life for another.

I was raised to fend for myself. I did. I am and I will continue to do so.

 

[chefdennis]

Envy me!?!? LOL, I have made some dumb stupid and really Bad choices in my life, NO ONE I know envies me at all and i'd be the 1st to tell anyone that did that they were nuts....LOL...

I have been poor and broke, both of my own doing..i have worked for everything I have gotten and lost...and then gotten again...I have made bad business decisions and good ones. all in all, I still take responsibility for my wins and losses, I don't blame and i don't ask for help from the gov or unions or anyone else...I have had investors make and lose money right along with me, but they choose to invest, it was their CHOICE....I still have and pay for the affects of bad business decisions...care to buy a storage locker full of fitness equipment!?!? I lost my azz on that one.....

EVERYONE is born equal and with the same chances to make it and succeed and to lose it and waste away or work to get back to where they can make it...i have chose to work and be responsible for my and my families well being....As Layout said, we ALL have CHOICES to make...

As for those from the getto not being able to make it because of their situation, I bet those that have made it from the getto would have a few pointers to give on how they have made it....Those that can't be a football player because they don't have that "skill set or ability", should they be paid to do it anyhow!?!? Should the "players union" set up a "fund" to help those that get cut because "they just aren't good enough"? or should everyone get to play. no matter what their ability!?!?

entitlement, thats what it all about for those that are "under-privilaged"....you can thank your lib democrats for most of those people, lol i think it was Greg that pointed out a while back that most of them didn't even realize they were poor, until the Gov told they were, and told them they would "fix" it for them.....

Envy me....I don't think so....