We Bail Em' Out....

[Oilerman1957]

There are bad people in management just as in the unions. Management seldom has "set" lunch hours. I never did. Some days I took 2 hours, many days I got none. I had to work 50-60 hours per week, straight salary. No overtime, no 40 hour week and FAR more responsibility than I EVER had as an hourly employee.

What one person, management or hourly does wrong does NOT reflect on the rest of their respective groups. The individual who screws up should be fired. I don't care who they are. There is NO valid excuse for drinking or doing drugs at work.

I bet it was MANY DAYS you took 2 hrs n SOME YOU TOOK NONE AT ALL, hahaha, j/k joe

And the drinking n drugging has been addressed very seriously now in the auto plants

 

[layoutshooter]

Guess it depends on if you consider drinking n drugging a disease or not, some do. I have seen positive results for some on rehab, wouldnt fire someone for having cancer would you? but i know, thats up for debate. everything doesnt have to be black n white you know.

Rehab is a personal responsibility. Even IF drinking and some drug use are really a disease it is NOT the responsibility of the company to cover those costs. Cancer is NOT the same thing. Even in the case of cancer it is NOT the responsibility of the company to cover those costs either. Everyone should cover their OWN life expenses. My health care is MY responsibility. Theirs is theirs.

The fact remains, they knew the rules, they endangered others lives, they have NO reguard for the company or their fellow workers. GONE!!

 

[layoutshooter]

I don't believe the company should have to pay for someones weakness...IF they are drug addicted and want to take rehab...I don't think penalizing his family anymore then he has would be fair either...especially if he was a good worker on the job...

I would let him/her attend rehab or do the AA thingee....BUT not one slip up....or GONE....

The employee should cover the cost. The company is NOT penalizing the family. The one who did that stupid act is. The individual is at fault. Those actions are NOT mistakes, they are deliberate acts. They knew what they were doing. It is NOT the fault of the company.

As a company I would likely give them a shot at rehab, at their expense, ONLY if they has NOT done actions like these. ONCE this line is crossed, or IF they show up high or drunk, TOAST!

 

[layoutshooter]

yes drinking and smoking pot is NOT an addiction....but alcholism is and hard drug use.....they need rehab and a job...
maybe we should toss in gambling as well...

Unions are out of control because management let it be that way.....back in the good ole days when the auto industry was rich, the companies just gave in....instead of fighting...and why not? there was a lot of money to be had....

Bad management has created a monster...

Why is everything a disease? Why could it not just be bad choices in life. You CHOOSE to drink, smoke pot, do coke, gamble. I have seen far too many who did these things just stop, cold turkey. Can you just "quit" cancer? Making every bad thing that man can do a disease only takes away personal responsibility.

 

[dieseldiva]

Diva: the point I was making is that we get paid for X number of miles, and if we can do it in less, we still get paid for undriven miles. The union workers who make their quota [set by management] are no different, and why should they be?

Understood Cherri but we weren't talking about quotas being met or not met. These guys weren't out there in the park because they'd met their quotas for the day, they were out there on their lunch time doing the things they were doing because they could.

It has nothing to do with hypocrisy on our parts when we choose a shorter route than what the company suggests, that's all within the outline of the contract. Drinking and smoking pot, to my knowledge, isn't written into theirs.

 

[layoutshooter]

did you read the word disease in my post anywhere?
I said ADDICTION...Cancer is a disease....

Didn't say you, just rambling as per normal. I am addicted to rambling. It's not my fault. Maybe the government should give me money!!

 

[layoutshooter]

you already make enough for doing little...*LOL*

Hey ugly pants!! We ran just shy of 3800 miles this week I will have you know!! We were close to having hour of service problems. Ok now on that. Been VERY busy of late. This is the first time in a very long time that we don't have a pre-dispatch for Monday.

 

[layoutshooter]

so what ya do in your spare time? *LOL*


so you were pre-occupied? when do you really start working...hehehe you wheel holder you....

you may have earned a real hero biscuit....

I hope this stuff keeps up. This week might have been our best this year. I have not looked back yet but I think it is. Sept is going to be one of our best months as well, even with the time we took off. I like this trend.

 

[cheri1122]

Understood Cherri but we weren't talking about quotas being met or not met. These guys weren't out there in the park because they'd met their quotas for the day, they were out there on their lunch time doing the things they were doing because they could.

In post 3, you refer to guys sleeping, etc, which is one thing to do when they've made their quota.
I said the drinkers should be fired - but the hypocrisy is on the part of management who also drink at lunch, [at places where cameras don't get inside]. And that their bad judgement generally gets rewarded, rather than penalized.

It has nothing to do with hypocrisy on our parts when we choose a shorter route than what the company suggests, that's all within the outline of the contract. Drinking and smoking pot, to my knowledge, isn't written into theirs.

My carrier doesn't suggest a route, they simply tell me how many miles I get paid for - if I drive fewer, I consider the extra a bonus. The point was that our paid miles are no different than the worker's quota - we are both expected to produce the desired result, and when we do it faster, we claim the extra time for ourselves.

 

[layoutshooter]

so what do you think contributed to this uptick of yours?

load selection?, better place, right time? maybe fewer WG trucks out there? does the Feds give out fleet size #'s?

Most likely a little bit of everything. It is nice though. I could use October to be this good.

 

[dieseldiva]

In post 3, you refer to guys sleeping, etc, which is one thing to do when they've made their quota.
I said the drinkers should be fired - but the hypocrisy is on the part of management who also drink at lunch, [at places where cameras don't get inside]. And that their bad judgement generally gets rewarded, rather than penalized.
[/SIZE]

Oh, ok...I get it now....Big duh on my part. The gentlemen (plural) that I referred to were in the maintenance department and didn't have to move from their chairs until and unless their services were needed. Many hours and in some cases, many nights, could go by without their "job descriptions" being called on so they're being paid to do nothing because they cannot, by contract, cross the line into someone elses job description and offer help. That's just ridiculous and does nothing but add cost to the end product and promote laziness on the job.

I totally agree with what you're saying about the office persons boozing it up at long lunches and reaping zero negative actions from it but short of evidence, nothing can or will be done.

 

[cheri1122]

It does seem as if workers would be better utilized if 'crosstrained', but I think the obstacle is management's historical habit of 'outsourcing' work, [or directing lower paid workers to do jobs, ostensibly to save time - uh huh] when it's cheaper to do so.
Most of the ridiculous provisions in contracts can be traced to an abuse on one side or the other, and especially an 'us against them' attitude, rather than the team effort & mutual respect that would be much better - if either side could manage it.

 

[layoutshooter]

It does seem as if workers would be better utilized if 'crosstrained', but I think the obstacle is management's historical habit of 'outsourcing' work, [or directing lower paid workers to do jobs, ostensibly to save time - uh huh] when it's cheaper to do so.
Most of the ridiculous provisions in contracts can be traced to an abuse on one side or the other, and especially an 'us against them' attitude, rather than the team effort & mutual respect that would be much better - if either side could manage it.

That happens in some places. The larger the company and the larger the union the least likely it is to happen. I do know one thing, having been union, labor and management, management is a FAR harder row to hoe than working the line is.

 

[Oilerman1957]

Ever get a ticket while driving your truck? if you did then you shouldnt be driving, you broke the law, GONE!!!!

 

[cheri1122]

Ever get a ticket while driving your truck? if you did then you shouldnt be driving, you broke the law, GONE!!!!

If you've exceeded the speed limit ever, ticket or not, you've broken the law.

 

[layoutshooter]

Ever get a ticket while driving your truck? if you did then you shouldnt be driving, you broke the law, GONE!!!!

No, I have not. They are also not the same thing. In the first place, illegal drugs are illegal. They made a choice to deliberately break a very important rule, one that is NOT there just to mess with them. It was NOT an accident. They CHOSE to do this. It is possible to get a ticket without intending to break a law. Repeated tickets are another story. So is a DUI or drugged driving, reckless driving etc. Their actions were NOT mistakes.

 

[Oilerman1957]

That happens in some places. The larger the company and the larger the union the least likely it is to happen. I do know one thing, having been union, labor and management, management is a FAR harder row to hoe than working the line is.

I know what your saying, I have seen so many managers having back surgeries, knee surgeries, shoulder sugeries from standing on concrete all day and from the type of repetive motions they have to do yr after yr. Or maybe it was the asbestos they had to work in yr after yr, i cant remember. Yea, those poor mangers.

 

[Oilerman1957]

No, I have not. They are also not the same thing. In the first place, illegal drugs are illegal. They made a choice to deliberately break a very important rule, one that is NOT there just to mess with them. It was NOT an accident. They CHOSE to do this. It is possible to get a ticket without intending to break a law. Repeated tickets are another story. So is a DUI or drugged driving, reckless driving etc. Their actions were NOT mistakes.

Really? and you never drove over the speed limit on purpose?

 

[layoutshooter]

I know what your saying, I have seen so many managers having back surgeries, knee surgeries, shoulder sugeries from standing on concrete all day and from the type of repetive motions they have to do yr after yr. Or maybe it was the asbestos they had to work in yr after yr, i cant remember. Yea, those poor mangers.

I have done both, I have experienced both. They both have their issues. As a manager I stood on hard concrete day in and day out. As a worker I destroyed my hearing working code and signals. I watched managers drop dead from the stress. It is easy to dismiss what a manager may or may not do. They chose their poison you chose yours. Every thing we do in life is our choice. It is not the managers fault you chose your job. You could have gone into management if you wanted. You chose the other route. Like you once said, you don't understand unless you walked in their shoes.

 

[witness23]

I have done both, I have experienced both. They both have their issues. As a manager I stood on hard concrete day in and day out. As a worker I destroyed my hearing working code and signals. I watched managers drop dead from the stress. It is easy to dismiss what a manager may or may not do. They chose their poison you chose yours. Every thing we do in life is our choice. It is not the managers fault you chose your job. You could have gone into management if you wanted. You chose the other route. Like you once said, you don't understand unless you walked in their shoes.

Layout, you have to be like 85 years old my man. You would have to be that old in order to do all the things that you say you have done. If you are 85 and runnin' expedite, God bless you brother.