We Bail Em' Out....

[Oilerman1957]

LOL, no power yea thats funny right there....

As for standing up for them, what they can't stand up for themselves? they need the non-union and self employed to help them out? The tax dollars they gave them wasn't enough? I mean yea they pay taxes, but so do those that you want to stand up for the union middle class....screw'em....they are no better then anyone else that hs and are taking the hit over the past decade....why should the non union guy stand up to help? where are the union guys standing up and helping those non union unempolyed!?!? And i guess alot here and around the country are no longer middle class because some are doing ok, ot great but ok, because they seen the writing on the wall before the shtf and set themselves up to make it through...they are the ones that can still buy a new car , and are carrying this country (well so far) with their ever increasing tax dollars while those that didn't and lived "paycheck to paycheck" and living on their overtime and figuring it would always be there and spent there way into debt are now living with their lack of seeing the writing on the wall and figuring the union is there.....

I still wish they would have let both GM and Chysler go BK, the country would be better off and the laws wouldn;t have been trampled on my barry in his efforts to nationalize the industry...but then again that is the socialist way

Time to go gamling at the casino and waste some of my middleclass income...anyone envy me!?!? LOL!!

What?, Who is standing up, now im confused, ok, bye, have fun

 

[greg334]

GM, FORD, CHRYSLER, they want the unions in there. They now use the unions to talk to the people, to change the way they want. I went on strike 3 times, never once did i see any violence.

Why would the company want any entity to be within their walls which is based on an adversarial relationship?

The UAW is not like the unions of Europe, where they actually work with the company, not against it.

I think if the union needs to be the spokes person for the company, then either the workers are too far gone or it makes the case for the company to move production out of the country.

Again the union should be there to protect the worker, it is not there to do that. It is there to make money and keep power. The union has done nothing for the worker in the last 30 years, even has gone against basic premise of protecting all the workers and played politics with people's jobs more so than the company.

I understand that you were part of the system, I understand that you may have seen the good they did for you but like the teachers' union, the UAW has outlived it usefulness and costs the country a lot of money just to 'save' a few jobs.

 

[Oilerman1957]

OK, now, if a phama company is being struck, the union is picketing, I get a call to pick up 3 skids, TVAL, I am NOT taking their work away, just moving product. Will they let me pass in peace or will they prevent me and my company from doing lawful work? Does me picking up this load constitute being a scab?

My little brother is a fanatic union, UAW, type. He believes that there should be NO small business trucking. That there should only be a few big companies, controlled by the government, and everyone employee MUST be a Teamster.

He thinks that I am a scab tacking away work from union workers and the I have NO right to run my own business.

Im not sure how it works anymore, it used to be if a company was on strike the teamsters would not cross that line to haul freight. no, you picking up freight doesnt constitue you being a scab, now some starch union members may disagree with me. ME PERSONALLY? I dont like crossing a picket line, but if accepted a job and later found out they were on strike, i would do my job. I would try not to go back there but that is just out of respect.

 

[layoutshooter]

Why would the company want any entity to be within their walls which is based on an adversarial relationship?

The UAW is not like the unions of Europe, where they actually work with the company, not against it.

I think if the union needs to be the spokes person for the company, then either the workers are too far gone or it makes the case for the company to move production out of the country.

Again the union should be there to protect the worker, it is not there to do that. It is there to make money and keep power. The union has done nothing for the worker in the last 30 years, even has gone against basic premise of protecting all the workers and played politics with people's jobs more so than the company.

I understand that you were part of the system, I understand that you may have seen the good they did for you but like the teachers' union, the UAW has outlived it usefulness and costs the country a lot of money just to 'save' a few jobs.

You must not consider England part of Europe. I know they don't. I have NEVER seen adversarial like what I say between the unions and the companies there.

The "spy union", members of the British intell service, had a contract. That contract included taking naps on mid night shifts (no matter what the target was doing) and access to beer in the snack bars. They struck when they came to work on our site, no naps, no beer. The gave in on the naps but NOT the beer and would drink at work as all hours of the day and night.

 

[Oilerman1957]

Why would the company want any entity to be within their walls which is based on an adversarial relationship?

The UAW is not like the unions of Europe, where they actually work with the company, not against it.

I think if the union needs to be the spokes person for the company, then either the workers are too far gone or it makes the case for the company to move production out of the country.

Again the union should be there to protect the worker, it is not there to do that. It is there to make money and keep power. The union has done nothing for the worker in the last 30 years, even has gone against basic premise of protecting all the workers and played politics with people's jobs more so than the company.

I understand that you were part of the system, I understand that you may have seen the good they did for you but like the teachers' union, the UAW has outlived it usefulness and costs the country a lot of money just to 'save' a few jobs.

Thats your opinion, I disagree

 

[layoutshooter]

Thats your opinion, I disagree

Sounds adversarial to me!!

 

[Oilerman1957]

Sounds adversarial to me!!

Your a hoot

 

[Oilerman1957]

Well that was fun...

a good discussion..Oilerman held his ground as did his opponents..no name calling, no shouting down....just good stuff....

And they wore me outttttttt, hahahaha

 

[cheri1122]

In this day n age, yes. companies now use the police force to allow scabs to cross a picket line. Which is ironic, using a union police force to stop a union. The corportations have almost completed there assult on the middle class, they have pitted the middle class against one another, telling us how this group over here doesnt deserve what they get or that group over there makes to much and now the middle class has turned on each other and the corportaions just sit back and laugh at us as they slowly have lowered the wages of every middle class job and all we do is bicker between ourselves, instead of standing together, as the old saying goes, united we stand divided we fall, and the middle class has fallen hard

Agree 100%. The divisive 'us vs them' attitude is one of the biggest obstacles to progress anymore. We're too busy blaming the 'other' side [Democrat or Republican, Christian or Muslim, management or labor] to notice that the real bad guys have already taken over: there are no jobs to support 'the American Dream' in America anymore.
Used to be, all it took to achieve it [a family, modest but comfortable home & life] was a decent work ethic & commonsense budgeting, but those days are gone.
Without jobs that provide a 'living wage', no one can afford a family, much less a comfortable home, and that's where we are right now. In worse shape than we've ever been, and arguing over the wrong things, as usual.

 

[layoutshooter]

Your a hoot

Yeah, you too!! Lot's of fun, eh?

 

[layoutshooter]

Agree 100%. The divisive 'us vs them' attitude is one of the biggest obstacles to progress anymore. We're too busy blaming the 'other' side [Democrat or Republican, Christian or Muslim, management or labor] to notice that the real bad guys have already taken over: there are no jobs to support 'the American Dream' in America anymore.
Used to be, all it took to achieve it [a family, modest but comfortable home & life] was a decent work ethic & commonsense budgeting, but those days are gone.
Without jobs that provide a 'living wage', no one can afford a family, much less a comfortable home, and that's where we are right now. In worse shape than we've ever been, and arguing over the wrong things, as usual.

Used to be also that people only had one car, there was normally one wage earner per family, no cell phones, no cable, shoot, we were amazed with 3 channels!! People today are not happy with a nice little 3 bedroom house like I grew up in. They want "mini-castles" a bedroom for every person, a bathroom for every person. Two or three cars, four boats, 6 snowmobiles, 8 computers and 10 tv's per household.

Who determines what a living wage is? What if that "living wage" cannot be supported by the product a plant is making? Should McDonald's be forced into the "living wage" mold?

 

[cheri1122]

Used to be also that people only had one car, there was normally one wage earner per family

Because that one could pay all the bills on one income...
, no cell phones, no cable, shoot, we were amazed with 3 channels!
Life moves on - people are often replacing landlines with cell phones, not simply adding them.
! People today are not happy with a nice little 3 bedroom house like I grew up in. They want "mini-castles" a bedroom for every person, a bathroom for every person. Two or three cars, four boats, 6 snowmobiles, 8 computers and 10 tv's per household.
Horsehockey! 'Mini castles' are built because that's what developers make more profit from, so that's what buyers are shown - and of course, they want the nice ones - but the demand didn't originate with them, as the developers pretend.
The few folks I know who live in nice homes, with the luxuries, can well afford them. But those who can't have a tough time finding 'affordable housing', or the jobs to pay for it.

Who determines what a living wage is?
It's whatever is required to be self sufficient as a single person, and to plan for a family, if wanted.
Not an extravagant lifestyle, but enough to cover all necessities, and some left over for small luxuries [annual vacation, even if it's just camping locally], and savings, too.
This used to be the norm, even with an entry level job, but it hardly exists anymore - and not because there's no demand, but because the jobs have been moved out of the country.
What if that "living wage" cannot be supported by the product a plant is making?
Should McDonald's be forced into the "living wage" mold?

Of course not - but the problem is, nearly ALL available jobs are 'McDonalds', and don't pay enough for anyone but teens or retirees wanting to supplement their retirement income.
The transition from a manufacturing to a service economy is the end of the line for the American Dream, because the jobs won't support a family anymore.
Not everyone has the ability to succeed at college, or the desire to go - [and many who did are unable to find employment these days] do they not deserve a comfortable life?

 

[layoutshooter]

Of course not - but the problem is, nearly ALL available jobs are 'McDonalds', and don't pay enough for anyone but teens or retirees wanting to supplement their retirement income.
The transition from a manufacturing to a service economy is the end of the line for the American Dream, because the jobs won't support a family anymore.
Not everyone has the ability to succeed at college, or the desire to go - [and many who did are unable to find employment these days] do they not deserve a comfortable life?

Why is it that there are only choices between college or manufacturing. What about the trades? Diesel mechanics, auto mechanics, brick layers, electritions, plumbers, undertakers, the list goes on and on. In many cases you can even earn as yoy learn. There are always options. Start you own company, learn how to build a better mouse trap and do it. The most opportunities are found during a recession. NOW is the time to go for it. It is up the the individual to determine how comfortable they make their life. There is ALWAYS a nieche to be filled or even invented.

I can promise you, if for some reason I can no longer drive I will be fine. I will come up with something new. I will start a different company. I am already working on an idea or two. Many today, far younger than I, just have no gumption. They are afraid to try, to move for a job, they want mommy and daddy.

 

[cheri1122]

Why is it that there are only choices between college or manufacturing. What about the trades? Diesel mechanics, auto mechanics, brick layers, electritions, plumbers, undertakers, the list goes on and on.
And everything on that list requires education beyond high school, which is increasingly impossible to pay for.
In many cases you can even earn as yoy learn. There are always options. Start you own company, learn how to build a better mouse trap and do it. The most opportunities are found during a recession. NOW is the time to go for it. It is up the the individual to determine how comfortable they make their life. There is ALWAYS a nieche to be filled or even invented.

I can promise you, if for some reason I can no longer drive I will be fine. I will come up with something new. I will start a different company. I am already working on an idea or two. Many today, far younger than I, just have no gumption. They are afraid to try, to move for a job, they want mommy and daddy.

Or they ARE mommy & daddy, and haven't anyone to care for the kids while they work and/or go to school....
It's just too easy to dismiss others as lazy, or whatever, but it isn't honest, cause mostly, they aren't.
They just aren't as smart, or strong, or as aggressive as you....

 

[layoutshooter]

Or they ARE mommy & daddy, and haven't anyone to care for the kids while they work and/or go to school....
It's just too easy to dismiss others as lazy, or whatever, but it isn't honest, cause mostly, they aren't.
They just aren't as smart, or strong, or as aggressive as you....

You misunderstood, I meant that young adults are afraid to leave mommy and daddy for work.

I am not any smarter than most, just average. Not stronger or aggressive. I just know that I am responsible for supporting my wife and my self so I finds ways to do it. Always have, always will.

I am too stubborn to listen when people say that I am too old for this or that. I am too stubborn when I hear that it is too bad out there to succeed. Of course you can, you have to WANT too.

One example that I know of. My lawn care and snow removing guy. I had one, he kept raising his price, only did fair work and so I fired him. Got another. That bunch did lousy work, even left one day after only cutting half the yard. Fired them. Got the one I have had now for the past 3 years. He does great work, always on time, will do extras, paid for of course. During the last two years this man has TRIPLED his business. Hires more people every summer. What recession? He has not had one. His wife cleans houses, HER business is growing too. Together they earn a GOOD living, are building two businesses and there is always one of them home with the kids. They don't hear that it can't be done, they are too busy doing it.

Work hard, provide a good service, product, etc, at a fair price and you will ALWAYS work.

Shoot, right now, if I had a LOT of money, I would start a new car company, the time it RIPE to knock off the big boys.

Now is the time FULL of more chances for NEW things. Now is the time to strike. Not like my niece and her what ever he is. 3 kids, no jobs. No effort to find one. No effort to do anything. Just sit back collect checks, grow hair and tatoos, smoke dope and cigs and complain that it is just too hard. No jobs, Bush ruined it. They make me sick.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Gee Joe... still going at it..ya found a new playmate I see as well...*LOL*

ironic I just watched the Day the Earth Stood Still....Kinda like this topic....*LOL*

 

[letzrockexpress]

or they are mommy & daddy, and haven't anyone to care for the kids while they work and/or go to school....
it's just too easy to dismiss others as lazy, or whatever, but it isn't honest, cause mostly, they aren't.
they just aren't as smart, or strong, or as aggressive as you....

boooohooowaaaaahahahahaha!!!!!

 

[Ragman]

I just watched the Day the Earth Stood Still....

Ya meen a politician told the truth?

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Ya meen a politician told the truth?

Good one...that relates too...

off to watch the 1951 version....

 

[cheri1122]

You misunderstood, I meant that young adults are afraid to leave mommy and daddy for work.
Not the ones I know [or raised.]

I am not any smarter than most, just average. Not stronger or aggressive. I just know that I am responsible for supporting my wife and my self so I finds ways to do it. Always have, always will.

That you want to, is true. That you will, not so much - what if you are permanently disabled by an injury? What if you become too ill to work?
Do you know how many folks who feel the same as you have become ill or disabled, and can't work anymore? Or just can't work full time? Or find a job, when the competition is so much younger & healthier?

I am too stubborn to listen when people say that I am too old for this or that. I am too stubborn when I hear that it is too bad out there to succeed. Of course you can, you have to WANT too.
That's a bit too simplistic - it takes more than that, and more than many folks have got to work with.

Work hard, provide a good service, product, etc, at a fair price and you will ALWAYS work.
As Oilerman pointed out, times have changed, and that's not true anymore.

Shoot, right now, if I had a LOT of money, I would start a new car company, the time it RIPE to knock off the big boys.
And IF there were jobs available, a lot of folks would be working now.....