I would never let these Xitches out of prison, never.
Turn every school into a fortress.
- Thread starter aristotle
- Start date
Looks like we've finally done it: come together [in our own special ways] and solved the problem.
Now we just need to convince the conservatives to spend money on mental health issues, and liberals to face the reality that gun control controls only the law abiding among us, which endangers the rest of us further.
Oh - and convince Aristotle that men aren't the answer, because, really: how many of the mass murderers were women?
Troubled young men are the problem as most mass murder incidents are committed by men. Young men do not fear women, maybe they should, but they don't. An increased male presence, particularly the presence of armed men devoted to protecting children at schools, would make a huge deterence to would-be shooters. Arm the Good Guys and the the Bad Guys will go sniveling away as the cowards they are. Either we get real about this, or watch more funerals for slaughtered children. This is not a difficult call.
How about allowing the school officials and teachers who are capable and competent, and wish to do so, to carry their choice of weapons as well as properly trained and licensed parents.
That's the complete answer. There is no reason to limit school carry to teachers and administrators when there are competent parents who should also be allowed to carry. That increases the potential for stopping a disastrous event as well as further discouraging it from ever happening.
You don't have guns in the classroom, you have a gun on your person, properly concealed and unknown to curious children or anyone else unless and until it's needed.
All else being equal, women are better shots than men. Women have better fine motor control. That's a physiological fact. There's no reason a properly trained woman won't respond equally to a properly trained man and when she does she'll likely outshoot him.
I'm still not sure about the wisdom of sending our kids into an armed camp every day beginning at age 5. Granted, security at schools could be better and there should be means in place to defend against armed attackers. However, this problem starts with the mental illness of the people that commit these acts. This Lanza boy was known to have mental problems. We haven't heard yet to what degree or at what age his mental problems began to manifest themselves, but I'll bet his parents and teachers knew early on that something was wrong. It's also likely that none of them could do anything significant about it because of the backward and misguided policies our society has in place that deal with mental illness.
If a kid comes to school with a contagious disease, he gets sent home for treatment and doesn't come back until he's well. The same should apply to those that have mental problems, especially the young students that are prone to violence or uncontrollable bursts of anger. Our culture needs to shed the stigma of disgrace and shame that's currently attached to mental illness, and start dealing with it like any other disease. That way these nut cases can be treated or removed from society before they cause harm to themselves or others.
If a kid comes to school with a contagious disease, he gets sent home for treatment and doesn't come back until he's well. The same should apply to those that have mental problems, especially the young students that are prone to violence or uncontrollable bursts of anger. Our culture needs to shed the stigma of disgrace and shame that's currently attached to mental illness, and start dealing with it like any other disease. That way these nut cases can be treated or removed from society before they cause harm to themselves or others.
Society can either wring its hands for the next 20 years or get real about protecting school children, right now. This should be a wake-up call to defend the most vulnerable segment of our population. Don't like the idea of guns in school? What's better.... more slaughtered children while we talk endlessly? We have a choice to defend the kids. We have a duty to protect them.
AMonger
Veteran Expediter
This brings to mind the saying of L. Neil Smith: "Gun control is the idea that a woman, raped in an alley and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to a woman, alive and well, with a gun in her purse."
Apparently, that warped idea extends to the classroom. Apparently, to gun controllers, a schoolroom full of slaughtered children is superior to a teacher with a gun strapped to her thigh.
Liberalism is, indeed, a mental disease.
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
While we may disagree about many things, your caution in this regard is actually very wise.
The premise is worthy of a little thought as to what all the possible unintended consequences could potentially be ...
He apparently had Asperger's Syndrome, a mild form of autism which is not linked to violence ... however that doesn't mean that the "help" (in the form of "medication") that some well-intended individuals may have proscribed might not have turned him violent ...
Agreed ... although perhaps not exactly in the same vein that you mean it ...
Consider the following from the Wikipedia page on "medication" for Asperger's Syndrome:
I have linked both of the Wikipedia pages for risperidone and olanzapine above - due to the adverse side effects involved with both (aggression and suicidal thoughts are two), as well as the past unethical (criminal in my opinion) activities of makers of these products, in downplaying the possible side effects to an unwitting public.
Additional info from the "Medications" section of the Wikipedia page on Asperger's syndrome:
SSRI's are the same class of drugs as Prozac (the original selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor) ... and the problems with this class of drugs are generally well enough known that I did not bother to link to any of them.
Here's what really ought to be being looked at - and these are just the known (and documented) incidents of senseless violence that are linked to psychiatric drugs and schools ... be sure slide the slider bar to the right for the description or characterization of the event:
| School Shooting | Prozac WITHDRAWAL | 2008-02-15 | Illinois | ** 6 Dead: 15 Wounded: Perpetrator Was in Withdrawal from Med & Acting Erratically |
| School Shooting | Prozac Antidepressant | 2005-03-24 | Minnesota | **10 Dead: 7 Wounded: Dosage Increased One Week before Rampage |
| School Shooting | Paxil [Seroxat] Antidepressant | 2001-03-10 | Pennsylvania | **14 Year Old GIRL Shoots & Wounds Classmate at Catholic School |
| School Shooting | Zoloft Antidepressant & ADHD Med | 2011-07-11 | Alabama | **14 Year Old Kills Fellow Middle School Student |
| School Shooting | Zoloft Antidepressant | 1995-10-12 | South Carolina | **15 Year Old Shoots Two Teachers, Killing One: Then Kills Himself |
| School Shooting | Med For Depression | 2009-03-13 | Germany | **16 Dead Including Shooter: Antidepressant Use: Shooter in Treatment For Depression |
| School Hostage Situation | Med For Depression | 2010-12-15 | France | **17 Year Old with Sword Holds 20 Children & Teacher Hostage |
| School Shooting Plot | Med For Depression WITHDRAWAL | 2008-08-28 | Texas | **18 Year Old Plots a Columbine School Attack |
| School Shooting | Anafranil Antidepressant | 1988-05-20 | Illinois | **29 Year Old WOMAN Kills One Child: Wounds Five: Kills Self |
| School Shooting | Luvox/Zoloft Antidepressants | 1999-04-20 | Colorado | **COLUMBINE: 15 Dead: 24 Wounded |
| School Stabbings | Antidepressants | 2001-06-09 | Japan | **Eight Dead: 15 Wounded: Assailant Had Taken 10 Times his Normal Dose of Depression Med |
| School Shooting | Prozac Antidepressant WITHDRAWAL | 1998-05-21 | Oregon | **Four Dead: Twenty Injured |
| School Stabbing | Med For Depression | 2011-10-25 | Washington | **Girl, 15, Stabs Two Girls in School Restroom: 1 Is In Critical Condition |
| School Shooting | Antidepressant | 2006-09-30 | Colorado | **Man Assaults Girls: Kills One & Self |
| School Machete Attack | Med for Depression | 2001-09-26 | Pennsylvania | **Man Attacks 11 Children & 3 Teachers at Elementary School |
| School Shooting Related | Luvox | 1993-07-23 | Florida | **Man Commits Murder During Clinical Trial for Luvox: Same Drug as in COLUMBINE: Never Reported |
| School Hostage Situation | Cymbalta Antidepressant WITHDRAWAL | 2009-11-09 | New York | **Man With Gun Inside School Holds Principal Hostage |
| School Shooting | Antidepressants | 1992-09-20 | Texas | **Man, Angry Over Daughter's Report Card, Shoots 14 Rounds inside Elementary School |
| School Shooting | SSRI | 2010-02-19 | Finland | **On Sept. 23, 2008 a Finnish Student Shot & Killed 9 Students Before Killing Himself |
| School Shooting Threat | Med for Depression* | 2004-10-19 | New Jersey | **Over-Medicated Teen Brings Loaded Handguns to School |
Continues in next post ...
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RLENT
Veteran Expediter
| School Shooting | Antidepressant? | 2007-04-18 | Virginia | **Possible SSRI Use: 33 Dead at Virginia Tech |
| School Shooting | Antidepressant? | 2002-01-17 | Virginia | **Possible SSRI Withdrawal Mania: 3 Dead at Law School |
| School Incident/Bizarre | Zoloft* | 2010-08-22 | Australia | **School Counselor Exhibits Bizarre Behavior: Became Manic On Zoloft |
| School/Assault | Antidepressant | 2009-11-04 | California | **School Custodian Assaults Student & Principal: Had Manic Reaction From Depression Med |
| School Shooting | Prozac Antidepressant | 1992-01-30 | Michigan | **School Teacher Shoots & Kills His Superintendent at School |
| School Shooting Threats | Celexa Antidepressant | 2010-01-25 | Virginia | **Senior in High School Theatens to Kill 4 Classmates: Facebook Involved: Bail Denied |
| School Violence/Murder | Antidepressants* | 1998-05-04 | New York | **Sheriff's Deputy Shoots his Wife in an Elementary School |
| School Knifing/Murder | Meds For Depression & ADHD | 2010-04-28 | Massachusetts | **Sixteen Year Old Kills 15 Year Old in High School Bathroom in Sept. 2009 |
| School Stabbing | Wellbutrin | 2006-12-04 | Indiana | **Stabbing by 17 Year Old At High School: Charged with Attempted Murder |
| School Threat | Antidepressants | 2007-04-23 | Mississippi | **Student Arrested for Making School Threat Over Internet |
| School Suspension | Lexapro Antidepressant | 2007-07-28 | Arkansas | **Student Has 11 Incidents with Police During his 16 Months on Lexapro |
| School Shooting | Antidepressant WITHDRAWAL | 2007-11-07 | Finland | **Student Kills 8: Wounds 10: Kills Self: High School in Finland |
| School Shooting | Paxil [Seroxat] Antidepressant | 2004-02-09 | New York | **Student Shoots Teacher in Leg at School |
| School Threat | Prozac Antidepressant | 2008-01-25 | Washington | **Student Takes Loaded Shotgun & 3 Rifles to School Parking Lot: Plans Suicide |
| School Shooting Plot | Med For Depression | 1998-12-01 | Wisconsin | **Teen Accused of Plotting to Gun Down Students at School |
| School/Assault | Zoloft Antidepressant | 2006-02-15 | Tennessee | **Teen Attacks Teacher at School |
| School Shooting Threat | Antidepressant | 1999-04-16 | Idaho | **Teen Fires Gun in School |
| School Hostage Situation | Paxil & Effexor Antidepressants | 2001-04-15 | Washington | **Teen Holds Classmates Hostage with a Gun |
| School Hostage Situation | Antidepressant WITHDRAWAL | 2006-11-28 | North Carolina | **Teen Holds Teacher & Student Hostage with Gun |
| School Knife Attack | Med for Depression | 2006-12-06 | Indiana | **Teen Knife Attacks Fellow Student |
| School Massacre Plot | Prozac Withdrawal | 2011-02-23 | Virginia | **Teen Sentenced to 12 Years in Prison For Columbine Style Plot |
| School Shooting | Celexa & Effexor Antidepressants | 2001-04-19 | California | **Teen Shoots at Classmates in School |
| School Shooting | Celexa Antidepressant | 2006-08-30 | North Carolina | **Teen Shoots at Two Students: Kills his Father: Celexa Found Among his Personal Effects |
| School Shooting | Meds For Depression & ADHD | 2011-03-18 | South Carolina | **Teen Shoots School Official: Pipe Bombs Found in Backpack |
| School Shooting Threat | Antidepressant | 2003-05-31 | Michigan | **Teen Threatens School Shooting: Charge is Terrorism |
| School Stand-Off | Zoloft Antidepressant | 1998-04-13 | Idaho | **Teen [14 Years Old] in School Holds Police At Bay: Fires Shots |
| School Shooting | Antidepressant WITHDRAWAL | 2007-10-12 | Ohio | **Teen [14 Years Old] School Shooter Possibly on Antidepressants or In Withdrawal |
| School Threat | Antidepressants | 2008-03-20 | Indiana | **Teen [16 Years Old] Brings Gun to School: There Is a Lockdown |
| School Suicide/Lockdown | Med For Depression | 2008-02-20 | Idaho | **Teen [16 Years Old] Kills Self at High School: Lockdown by Police |
| School Threats | Prozac Antidepressant | 1999-10-19 | Florida | **Teen [16 Years Old] Threatens Classmates With Knife & Fake Explosives |
| School Stabbing | Med For Depression | 2008-02-29 | Texas | **Teen [17 Year Old GIRL] Stabs Friend & Principal at High School |
| School Hostage Situation | Prozac/ Paxil Antidepressants | 2001-01-18 | California | **Teen [17 Years Old] Takes Girl Hostage at School: He is Killed by Police |
| School Knife Attack | Treatment For Depression & Strattera | 2009-03-10 | Belgium | **Three Dead in School Day Care: Two Children & a Caregiver: Happened Jan 23, 2009 |
| School Shooting Plot | Antidepressants | 2009-09-22 | England | **Two English School Boys Plot to Blow Up High School |
| School Arson Incidents | Paxil | 2002-04-12 | Michigan | **Unusual Personality Change on Paxil Caused 15 Year Old to Set Fires inside High School |
| School Bomb Threat | Med For Depression | 2009-06-29 | Australia | **Vexed Father Makes Bomb Threat Against Elementary School |
| School Violence | Antidepressant | 2005-11-19 | Arizona | **Violent 8 Year Old GIRL Handcuffed by Police at School |
| School Violence | Celexa Antidepressant | 2002-01-23 | Florida | **Violent 8 Year-Old Boy Arrested At School |
| School Threat/Lockdown | Lexapro* | 2008-04-18 | California | **Violent High School Student Shot to Death on Campus by Police |
| School / Child Endangerment | Antidepressants | 2008-02-27 | Canada | **Wacky School Bus Driver Goes Berserk: Also Involved Painkillers |
| School Violence | Paxil | 2004-10-23 | Washington DC | **Young Boy, 10 Year Old, Has Violent Incidents at School |
| School Threat | Wellbutrin Antidepressant | 2007-04-24 | Tennessee | **Young Boy, 12, Threatens to Shoot Others at School |
| School Hostage Situation | Med for Depression | 2006-03-09 | France | **Young Ex-Teacher Holds 21 Students Hostage |
| School Shooting/Suicide | Celexa | 2002-10-07 | Texas | **Young Girl [13 Years Old] Kills Self at School With a Gun |
| School Hostage Situation | Paxil | 2001-10-12 | North Carolina | **Young Man Holds Three People Hostage in Duke University President's Office |
| School Murder Attempt | Med For Depression | 1995-03-04 | California | **Young Woman Deliberately Hits 3 Kids with Her Car at Elementary School: Laughed During Attack |
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
The index to the database which the aforementioned incidents were taken from can be viewed at the following location - rest assured that there is plenty more chaos, senseless violence and general mayhem beyond just the school aspect of things:
Index To SSRI Stories
Index To SSRI Stories
Enroute to Texas tonight, I am listening to an Israeli on the radio explain that since the Israelis placed armed security in their schools in the 1970's, they have not experienced a single mass shooting at any school. Not one mass shooting.
Are we to believe an American child is not deserving of the same protection? Do the Israelis place a higher value on the lives of their children than Americans do? This is an approach known to be effective. I am guessing there are 20 sets of parents in Newtown, Connecticut tonight who would give anything to have had armed security at Sandy Hook Elementary School on Friday.
Are we to believe an American child is not deserving of the same protection? Do the Israelis place a higher value on the lives of their children than Americans do? This is an approach known to be effective. I am guessing there are 20 sets of parents in Newtown, Connecticut tonight who would give anything to have had armed security at Sandy Hook Elementary School on Friday.
Most of the problems the military is facing with murders/suicides etc is also linked to mental health drugs. Better mental health care, as we know it, heavy drugging is not the answer to the problem. It is one of the causes.
We must think out the solutions.
We must think out the solutions.
How many adolescent boys live in a home with their biological father married to the birth mother? We are raising an entire generation of folks being told fathers are not really important... that Government will be substituted for fathers. How many generations of messed up males are we willing to accept?
AMonger
Veteran Expediter
You know how that goes against the feral gummint's principles. Remember when pilots wanted to carry guns to protect cockpits after 9/11? Instead of just having the pilots demonstrate they hit what they aim at, the gummint created the Federal Flight Deck Officer program, because in their mind, no one should have a gun if they're not a gummint official.
AMonger
Veteran Expediter
Thing is, the Israelis aren't afraid of guns in the hands of good guys. A huge percentage of Americans quake with fear at the thought of being in the same zip code as one.
I've followed a beautiful actress on Twitter because, if it were possible, I'd bear her children. But she's been posting crap non-stop about banning guns and such. Couldn't take it any more. Had to unfollow the dingy broad. She's a Scientologist, anyway, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised at her lunacy. The answer is found in the title of John Lott's book, "More Guns, Less Crime."
I am well aware of the problem of boys being raised without fathers and the problems it can cause.
Medication is not the answer. It is part of the problem.
Many of us that have reached a "certain age" and have some experience with the fairer gender have come to know better, haven't we?
This sad situation got me to thinking about the first day we put my oldest on the kindergarten bus the first time. I gave him a hug in the living room and his mom walked him out to the bus that would take him to the same elementary school I attended. He was obviously a little scared as the bus pulled away with him looking out the window. But, that was all gone by the time he got home. He was excited about this new world that had opened up to him and couldn't tell us enough about it. Every detail...
Can it ever be the same sending them to a fortress with everyone packing?
The nation weeps...
People seem to think that if common sense were employed allowing trained, licensed and capable people authorization of on person concealed carry on campuses the schools would suddenly become Alcatraz. Nothing could be further from the truth. That's the whole point of on body concealed carry, stealth.
A competent license holder could carry concealed on a school campus with a Glock 19 and two spare magazines and a J frame that could be handed to a spouse who is a fully qualified individual as well and do so several dozen times over an eight year period of two students in the school and because there never was any attempted attack on the school none of the thousands of people ever had a clue there was someone on campus capable and prepared to defend them.
A competent license holder could carry concealed on a school campus with a Glock 19 and two spare magazines and a J frame that could be handed to a spouse who is a fully qualified individual as well and do so several dozen times over an eight year period of two students in the school and because there never was any attempted attack on the school none of the thousands of people ever had a clue there was someone on campus capable and prepared to defend them.
Properly trained and armed security personnel are one thing; pistol-packing teachers and administrators are quite another. Looking back on the time when my daughters were in school I can think of maybe two teachers I would have trusted with a loaded weapon - and that includes the principle. If the states are going to arm their teachers, they're also going to have to provide weapons and the continuous training on and off the range that would go along with this added responsibility. One can just imagine the howls of protest from the NEA over the additional time and responsibilities. However, all that could be avoided with placing properly trained guards in strategic locations around the schools.
However, the Israelis operate in a totally different environment. Their kids are used to being under constant siege from their terrorist enemies who want to destroy them - it's a way of life with which they grow up. Also, almost all of their population is required to serve in the military and by doing so get proper indoctrination and training with firearms. That being said, I'll agree that properly trained armed guards on campus is the best way to go.
One final thought: wonder how the Israelis and other cultures handle their mentally ill kids and adults similar to the ones like Adam Lanza?