Turn every school into a fortress.

[cheri1122]

How many adolescent boys live in a home with their biological father married to the birth mother? We are raising an entire generation of folks being told fathers are not really important... that Government will be substituted for fathers. How many generations of messed up males are we willing to accept?

The assumption that children raised by their biological father and birth mother are always better off than otherwise is simply wrong. Of course it's the ideal family structure, but even when it's present, it isn't producing responsible and self sufficient kids automatically - it depends entirely on the character of the parents [separately and together].
Having no father present is better than having one who is alcoholic [personal experience on this subject], or so workaholic as to be rarely seen, or so emotionally unavailable as to be more harmful than helpful, or a rigidly strict disciplinarian who drives his children to escape [whether physically or mentally], or one who teaches that violence solves problems, etc, etc, etc.
As you pointed out already, this is no longer Mayberry, RFD, and the traditional nuclear family has become something different in many cases. Maybe not as ideal, but under the circumstances [should I have raised my child with an alcoholic father who was frequently in jail or inpatient treatment?] the best that can be managed. The children of nontraditional families are not automatically worse off, and often much better - that's a fact you don't like to acknowledge, apparently.
Finding solutions to problems starts with accurately assessing and defining the problem, and I just don't think the lack of residential fathers plays such a major role in today's societal ills.
I'd place more 'blame' on the lack of solid education, glorification of violence, ubiquitous advertising that stresses competition over cooperation [and the value of 'stuff'], and most especially the stress of financial problems placed on working people who don't earn enough to provide a decent standard of living - unless they work 2 [or more] jobs, in which case, how much parenting can they do? [That one I also know from personal experience!]
Financial stresses can undo even the 'best' parents, and it's my belief that getting them gainfully employed with a living wage would do wonders to improve the family structure, however it's composed.

 

[layoutshooter]

Boys without fathers are a disaster waiting to happen. Competition over cooperation? That is funny when score keeping is not allowed in many games now. Schools without grades. The idea that self esteem is more important than confidence gained by accomplishment.

Boys are also NOT the same as girls. They fidget more and need FAR more hard running than girls. When they don't get it they are drugged when they can't sit still in a class room. Drugged with many of the drugs that are causing these people to flip out. I can't imagine what would have been done to me if I was growing up today. I used to just get up and run when I needed too. I would, with the help of several other normal boys, catch snakes, mice or bugs to release in the classroom. Imagine Henry Ford today. He too would be drugged. He used to do handstands on his desk in the classroom.

We ran HARD at recess, something that is no always allowed anymore.

We need to let boys be boys. In fact, I am 100% of segregating boys and girls in the classroom. They even learn different.

 

[xiggi]

Boys without fathers are a disaster waiting to happen. Competition over cooperation? That is funny when score keeping is not allowed in many games now. Schools without grades. The idea that self esteem is more important than confidence gained by accomplishment.

Boys are also NOT the same as girls. They fidget more and need FAR more hard running than girls. When they don't get it they are drugged when they can't sit still in a class room. Drugged with many of the drugs that are causing these people to flip out. I can't imagine what would have been done to me if I was growing up today. I used to just get up and run when I needed too. I would, with the help of several other normal boys, catch snakes, mice or bugs to release in the classroom. Imagine Henry Ford today. He too would be drugged. He used to do handstands on his desk in the classroom.

We ran HARD at recess, something that is no always allowed anymore.

We need to let boys be boys. In fact, I am 100% of segregating boys and girls in the classroom. They even learn different.

My mother did a great job of raising me and my siblings after my father passed. It isn't not having a father its the environment.

Sent from my Fisher Price ABC123 via EO Forums

 

[EnglishLady]

Boys without fathers are a disaster waiting to happen. Competition over cooperation? That is funny when score keeping is not allowed in many games now. Schools without grades. The idea that self esteem is more important than confidence gained by accomplishment.

Boys are also NOT the same as girls. They fidget more and need FAR more hard running than girls. When they don't get it they are drugged when they can't sit still in a class room. Drugged with many of the drugs that are causing these people to flip out. I can't imagine what would have been done to me if I was growing up today. I used to just get up and run when I needed too. I would, with the help of several other normal boys, catch snakes, mice or bugs to release in the classroom. Imagine Henry Ford today. He too would be drugged. He used to do handstands on his desk in the classroom.

We ran HARD at recess, something that is no always allowed anymore.

We need to let boys be boys. In fact, I am 100% of segregating boys and girls in the classroom. They even learn different.

I strongly disagree ... I raised my two boys just fine by myself and they have never been in trouble for even the slightest thing at school or anywhere else.

What is missing is the lack of installing morals at an early age, and inattentiveness toward the child, whether its two parents or one.

 

[layoutshooter]

I strongly disagree ... I raised my two boys just fine by myself and they have never been in trouble for even the slightest thing at school or anywhere else.

What is missing is the lack of installing morals at an early age, and inattentiveness toward the child, whether its two parents or one.

Sue, there are exceptions to every rule. You know that. I am not speaking of individual instances.

In this country, I don't know about England, the crime rates for boys has gone up quickly as father's became absent. Boys, most boys, NEED a STRONG male to teach him how to become a man. Few women are capable of that, since they are women. I could NEVER teach a girl how to be a woman. I would have tried if forced but I am NOT designed for that job.

 

[skyraider]

I am well aware of the problem of boys being raised without fathers and the problems it can cause.

Medication is not the answer. It is part of the problem.

In the past 10 years, I, the Grandfather of my daughters 4 sons, has been the Dad. I'm still in that position today, It is scary at times and at 66 yrs young, I do run out of energy, patience, sometime dollars, and I'm gettiing somewhat short on birthdays. Medication is not the answer, attention to the boys is the answer and 1 divided by 4 is a .25 and thats not alot of attention, but Mom is around now fulltime to do Mommy stuff, thank God..Its a fulltime job here and never a dull moment..............................I could use the lotto money yesterday,lol. PS it is not all fun and games here, yes we do therapy, yes some of the boys are getting extra help on emotions and schoolwork. Yes I fix breakfast or Mommy does and yes we are here when they come home, and yes we attend school functions wth the boys that play sports and yes we cry here too, sometimes in the middle of the night......and laugh when we can and yes we have a dog, great therapy that dog.

 

[EnglishLady]

Sue, there are exceptions to every rule. You know that. I am not speaking of individual instances.

In this country, I don't know about England, the crime rates for boys has gone up quickly as father's became absent. Boys, most boys, NEED a STRONG male to teach him how to become a man. Few women are capable of that, since they are women. I could NEVER teach a girl how to be a woman. I would have tried if forced but I am NOT designed for that job.

But that is my point ..... my boys ARE boys I made sure of that by enrolling them in boy things like the Air Cadets etc.
IMO it doesn't matter if the children have one parent or two ... yes its harder for one but if the parent is attentive and instals the morals that are so desperately lacking today, it would go a long way to helping the problem.

Parent(s) 'let go' and the children rule the roost and that is quite unacceptable.

 

[layoutshooter]

But that is my point ..... my boys ARE boys I made sure of that by enrolling them in boy things like the Air Cadets etc.
IMO it doesn't matter if the children have one parent or two ... yes its harder for one but if the parent is attentive and instals the morals that are so desperately lacking today, it would go a long way to helping the problem.

Parent(s) 'let go' and the children rule the roost and that is quite unacceptable.

I will argue later. Right now I am teaching Mrs. Layoutshooter how to clean her new .380SIG then it's OFF to the range to get better with the hand guns!

 

[RLENT]

An article published back in early 2011, in Psychology Today's "Mad In America" column:

Psychiatric Drugs and Violence: A Review of FDA Data Finds A Link
Antidepressants near top of list of drugs associated with violence
Published on January 5, 2011 by Robert Whitaker in Mad in America

There has been an enduring controversy over whether psychiatric medications can trigger violent actions toward others. A review of the FDA's Adverse Event Reporting System by Thomas Moore, Joseph Glenmullen and Curt Furberg, which was published by PLoS One on December 15, found that such "adverse events" are indeed associated with antidepressants and several other types of psychotropic medications.

To do their study, Moore and his collaborators extracted all serious events reports from the FDA's database from 2004 through September 2009, and then identified 484 drugs that had triggered at least 200 case reports of serious adverse events (of any type) during that 69-month period. They then investigated to see if any of these 484 drugs had a "disproportionate" association with violence. They identified 31 such drugs, out of the 484, that met this criteria.

The 31 "suspect" drugs accounted for 1527 of the 1937 case reports of violence toward others in the FDA database for that 69-month period. The drugs in that list of 31 included varenicline (an aid to smoking cessation), 11 antidepressants, 6 hypnotic/sedatives, and 3 drugs for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Antidepressants were responsible for 572 case reports of violence toward others; the three ADHD drugs for 108; and the hypnotic/sedatives for 97.

Of the 1937 total case reports of violence toward others, there were 387 cases of homicide, 404 physical assaults, 27 cases of physical abuse, 896 reports of homicidal ideation, and 223 cases of "violence related symptoms."

The adverse events reported to the FDA are known to represent but a tiny fraction of all such adverse events. This study simply identified 31 drugs responsible for most of the FDA case reports of violence toward others, with antidepressants near the top of that list.

In light of this finding, the many past shootings at school campuses and other public venues should perhaps be investigated anew by government officials, with an eye toward ascertaining whether psychotropic use may have, in the manner of an adverse event, triggered that violence.

Moore and his collaborators concluded: "These data provide new evidence that acts of violence towards others are a genuine and serious adverse drug event that is associated with a relatively small group of drugs. Varenicline, which increases the availability of dopamine, and serotonin reuptake inhibitors were the most strongly and consistently implicated drugs."

Psychiatric Drugs and Violence: A Review of FDA Data Finds A Link | Psychology Today

 

[LDB]

There's nothing an armed guard could do that a teacher, administrator or citizen couldn't do. The state would provide nothing. Any individual choosing to participate would use their own equipment with which they are already familiar and capable. The NEA would have no say in the matter as it would be a volunteer system. Those who completed reasonable training and competency testing would have a CHL that gives them authority on campuses. The same should be done with airlines to supplement the air marshall program. That would be far more effective than the obscene groping of children and elderly by the TSA. Armed citizens are far better than hired bureaucrats of any sort and TSA is nothing but bureaucrats. It's exponentially simpler to solve with faculty and citizens than with more bureaucracy.

 

[RLENT]

Properly trained and armed security personnel are one thing; pistol-packing teachers and administrators are quite another.

Indeed ... to say nothing of the idea of having parents packing on school grounds or at school events ...

Anyone who has attended any significant amount of school sporting events has probably had the experience of watching certain parents nearly go psychotic over some relatively insignificant matter ... and so those advocating such ought to seriously contemplate the wisdom of allowing armed parents willy-nilly at any school event.

The potential backlash against 2A rights if such an incident (or incidents) were to occur might be humongous ... it's already bad enough ... why provide additional ammo for the gun grabbers ?

Looking back on the time when my daughters were in school I can think of maybe two teachers I would have trusted with a loaded weapon - and that includes the principle.

Same here ... my high school principal was a good and honorable man ... who I would also consider to be relatively sane ... a Marine who had served in 'Nam ... and so was trained to handle weapons.

I can also think of two "teachers" (both men) who were highly questionable, each of whom I personally witnessed physically attack students (two instances, once in elementary, and once in middle school) ... with near no real provocation whatsoever, all out of proportion to the alleged transgression. Just two guys that couldn't control their tempers ...

If the states are going to arm their teachers, they're also going to have to provide weapons and the continuous training on and off the range that would go along with this added responsibility. One can just imagine the howls of protest from the NEA over the additional time and responsibilities. However, all that could be avoided with placing properly trained guards in strategic locations around the schools.

However, the Israelis operate in a totally different environment. Their kids are used to being under constant siege from their terrorist enemies who want to destroy them - it's a way of life with which they grow up. Also, almost all of their population is required to serve in the military and by doing so get proper indoctrination and training with firearms. That being said, I'll agree that properly trained armed guards on campus is the best way to go.

While it is true that failing to provide proper security (which armed personnel might very well be a legitimate part of) would be inherently stupid on it's face, this, at best, treats only the symptom ... and fails to address the root cause of the problem ... and does not address the larger question:

... what is causing this kids to flip out and go postal ?

Until that is actually addressed in a meaningful way, you can expect to see more of these kind of incidents ... simply because where there is a will to do harm, there will be a way found to achieve it ...

Short of turning school buses into armored personnel carriers and providing an escort of armed Humvee's with 50 caliber machine guns mounted, school children will likely be accessible and vulnerable at some point.

Perfect security is likely unachievable ... at least at any cost (in either money or loss of freedom) the general public would be willing to bear ...

 

[RLENT]

There's nothing an armed guard could do that a teacher, administrator or citizen couldn't do. The state would provide nothing. Any individual choosing to participate would use their own equipment with which they are already familiar and capable. The NEA would have no say in the matter as it would be a volunteer system. Those who completed reasonable training and competency testing would have a CHL that gives them authority on campuses. The same should be done with airlines to supplement the air marshall program. That would be far more effective than the obscene groping of children and elderly by the TSA. Armed citizens are far better than hired bureaucrats of any sort and TSA is nothing but bureaucrats. It's exponentially simpler to solve with faculty and citizens than with more bureaucracy.

For me personally, you would be the poster child for why I wouldn't want "armed citizens" providing security at a school my children were attending.

I realize your intentions are good, however, based on some of your commentary here, I would have serious reservations about your judgement ...

If you were "providing security" at the school my children attended, then I'd be homeschooling ...

BTW - please don't take this as a effort to single you out personally - you just happened to post, so I replied ... there are plenty of others on here that I would regard in the same or similar manner ...

 

[LDB]

I don't take it personally and truthfully there are a select few that I expect just such a response from and would be disappointed to not get just such a response. However, unless and until you know me personally you don't know what you are talking about and couldn't be more wrong.

 

[RLENT]

The full published study which was cited in an article I posted earlier:

PLOS Medicine: Antidepressants and Violence: Problems at the Interface of Medicine and Law

 

[aristotle]

Local communities will ultimately decide for themselves what level of school security they are comfortable with. There are already uniformed cops patrolling many schools in the US and it has been this way for decades in some urban areas.

I imagine more and more school districts will choose to have an armed law enforcement officer prominently on display across school campuses nationwide. The mere presence of an uniformed cop is a huge deterrence.

 

[davekc]

I think we have identified the majority of problems in which the answers are limited. So it is more of slowing the violence down with acknowledging that it will never go to zero.
We have mental health issues, lack of parenting, drug use, medicated kids, the internet, and the list goes on. I am still in favor of a armed person at schools. Good enough for banks, good enough at schools.

 

[layoutshooter]

"Local communities will ultimately decide for themselves what level of school security they are comfortable with."


I some how doubt this. The Feds have already tried to take over local law with the "Gun Free School Zone Act" of 1990 and '95. Funny, most, or all, of these attacks seemed to have taken place in "gun free zones". Must be easy targets. Expect more moves by the feds to usurp State/Local and individual rights, INCLUDED how THEY are going to try to insure school safety. Not to worry, everything they do will make the problem worse and increase crime.

 

[muttly]

"Local communities will ultimately decide for themselves what level of school security they are comfortable with."


I some how doubt this. The Feds have already tried to take over local law with the "Gun Free School Zone Act" of 1990 and '95. Funny, most, or all, of these attacks seemed to have taken place in "gun free zones". Must be easy targets. Expect more moves by the feds to usurp State/Local and individual rights, INCLUDED how THEY are going to try to insure school safety. Not to worry, everything they do will make the problem worse and increase crime.

Right , these places that are "gun free zones" are an invitation for some mentally ill person who wants to create havoc. They appear to want to go, for the most part, somewhere with not much resistance. In a lot of cases the perpetrator upon hearing a police siren, or is confronted by armed resistance decides to either surrender or kill themselves.

John Lott Destroys CNN's Soledad O'Brien on Gun Free Zones - Katie Pavlich

 

[jaminjim]

When I was in High School I would have trusted our Principle to do what was necessary in any situation. Not so much with a gun though. You see we called him stubs for a good reason. Think real short stubs where his fingers use to be.

 

[layoutshooter]

Both my high school principle and assistant principle were WWII combat vets. My band instructor served in the military and was quite handy with a rifle. the majority of my male teachers hunted. I don't know about the women. Hardly had any women teachers in high school. Only two the entire time that I can think of.

In grade school I had nuns. They could float, they moved in silence. They had eyes with 360 vision and carried two holstered rulers that they would draw and hit a target, every time, at over 100 yards. All without a sound!