No it doesn't make your point. There was more than two thousand that showed up. The two thousand was reported that was inside. Many more showed up outside.
The Trump Card...
- Thread starter muttly
- Start date
We have no way to verify how many showed up. Regarding the line, if the report is true, consider this (from ChatGPT):
To determine how many people are in a line that is a mile long, we need to know the average spacing between each person. Let's assume a comfortable distance of about 2 feet (0.02 miles) between each person for the sake of calculation.
There are 5,280 feet in a mile. So, if each person takes up 2 feet, then there would be approximately 52802=264025280=2640 people in a line that is one mile long.
That number roughly corresponds with the 2,000 number you mentioned above. Tiny crowd compared to what Trump used to draw. Even if you (illegitimately) double the number, my point stands. Trump's recent crowd sizes are tiny compared to what they used to be.
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Jointly and Severally Liable to Plaintiff
In his ruling, Judge Engoron said Trump personally and his companies are "are jointly and severally liable to plaintiff..." (Source). This means his companies can pay part or all of the judgement amount (about $455 million) or Trump himself can pay part or all of it. It does not matter to the Court which entity or combination of entities pay. It matters only that the judgement is fully paid.
This judgement is not protected by bankruptcy. It remains due whether bankruptcy is filed or not. However, if bankruptcy is filed, a significant delay in the due date of the payment will be gained. But to gain that, BOTH Trump personally and his companies would have to file bankruptcy.
If Trump's companies file bankruptcy, the Court would look to Trump himself to pay the full judgement amount when due. If Trump himself files bankruptcy, the Court would look to his companies to pay the full judgement amount when due.
Trump's non-bankruptcy option is to post the required $455 million in cash with the court, or a bond, and then appeal the lower-court's ruling in hopes of getting it overturned or getting the judgment amount reduced.
A bond would cost Trump less up front, about $17 million, but more in the long run because the bonding company will charge its fees and interest. Also, Trump would have to find a company willing to take Trump on as a credit risk. The bonding company would be liable to pay the judgement amount if the appeal fails (and it will almost certainly fail as Engoron wrote a bullet-proof ruling). In turn Trump would be liable to repay the bonding company. With the vast amounts involved, and Trump's losing case in the open for all to see, and his previous history of defaulting on loans, I'd be surprised if a traditional bonding company rises to take on this risk.
Will Trump file bankruptcy to gain a delay?
Will Trump be able to raise $455 million in cash and deposit with the Court to appeal the case?
Will Trump be able to find someone willing to take Trump on as a credit risk and sell him a bond?
We'll know in the near future.
Related: The idea is out there that Trump does not have the money, but some savior will emerge for him to provide it. The list of potential saviors include Musk, Putin, and Saudi Arabia. In that scenario, Trump is for sale; willing to do the bidding of anyone or any country willing to pay the price.
In his ruling, Judge Engoron said Trump personally and his companies are "are jointly and severally liable to plaintiff..." (Source). This means his companies can pay part or all of the judgement amount (about $455 million) or Trump himself can pay part or all of it. It does not matter to the Court which entity or combination of entities pay. It matters only that the judgement is fully paid.
This judgement is not protected by bankruptcy. It remains due whether bankruptcy is filed or not. However, if bankruptcy is filed, a significant delay in the due date of the payment will be gained. But to gain that, BOTH Trump personally and his companies would have to file bankruptcy.
If Trump's companies file bankruptcy, the Court would look to Trump himself to pay the full judgement amount when due. If Trump himself files bankruptcy, the Court would look to his companies to pay the full judgement amount when due.
Trump's non-bankruptcy option is to post the required $455 million in cash with the court, or a bond, and then appeal the lower-court's ruling in hopes of getting it overturned or getting the judgment amount reduced.
A bond would cost Trump less up front, about $17 million, but more in the long run because the bonding company will charge its fees and interest. Also, Trump would have to find a company willing to take Trump on as a credit risk. The bonding company would be liable to pay the judgement amount if the appeal fails (and it will almost certainly fail as Engoron wrote a bullet-proof ruling). In turn Trump would be liable to repay the bonding company. With the vast amounts involved, and Trump's losing case in the open for all to see, and his previous history of defaulting on loans, I'd be surprised if a traditional bonding company rises to take on this risk.
Will Trump file bankruptcy to gain a delay?
Will Trump be able to raise $455 million in cash and deposit with the Court to appeal the case?
Will Trump be able to find someone willing to take Trump on as a credit risk and sell him a bond?
We'll know in the near future.
Related: The idea is out there that Trump does not have the money, but some savior will emerge for him to provide it. The list of potential saviors include Musk, Putin, and Saudi Arabia. In that scenario, Trump is for sale; willing to do the bidding of anyone or any country willing to pay the price.
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The $83.3 Million Carroll Clock Started Ticking 2/8/24
Trump has 30 days after this date to appeal. If he does not appeal, the $83.3 million judgement is immediately payable. If he does not pay, Carroll's attorneys will ask for and receive from the Court an order that empowers them to seize $83.3 million worth of Trump's assets.
To avoid asset seizure, Trump is highly likely to appeal. He has said he plans to appeal. To appeal, he is required to deposit $83.3 million in cash with the Court, or a bond covering that amount. That deposit or bond ensures Carroll will be paid if Trump loses his appeal (which is highly likely, given the strength of Carroll's case).
Trump's actions on this front will answer some of the questions people are asking now about the solvency of the Trump Organization, his ability to pay this judgement, and later, his ability to pay the $455 million judgement recently issued by another Court in the NY civil fraud case.
Trump has 30 days after this date to appeal. If he does not appeal, the $83.3 million judgement is immediately payable. If he does not pay, Carroll's attorneys will ask for and receive from the Court an order that empowers them to seize $83.3 million worth of Trump's assets.
To avoid asset seizure, Trump is highly likely to appeal. He has said he plans to appeal. To appeal, he is required to deposit $83.3 million in cash with the Court, or a bond covering that amount. That deposit or bond ensures Carroll will be paid if Trump loses his appeal (which is highly likely, given the strength of Carroll's case).
Trump's actions on this front will answer some of the questions people are asking now about the solvency of the Trump Organization, his ability to pay this judgement, and later, his ability to pay the $455 million judgement recently issued by another Court in the NY civil fraud case.
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Another good article about the cult of Trump, there is only one paragraph I dont agree with:
He writes off superior knowledge and expertise as snobbish, and he helped spread idiotic conspiracies surrounding the COVID-19 vaccines.
I dont recall him saying anything about the vaccines other than they were safe, in fact he was booed by his followers for saying that.
More Accountability. More ETTD
The US Supreme Court let stand the lower court rulings that hold pro-Trump lawyers accountable for the lies they told. Those liars, those legal professionals now condemned for their “historic and profound abuse of the judicial process,” have exhausted all of their appeals and maneuvers. It only remains for them to face the music and pay the price for their crimes.
thehill.com
The US Supreme Court let stand the lower court rulings that hold pro-Trump lawyers accountable for the lies they told. Those liars, those legal professionals now condemned for their “historic and profound abuse of the judicial process,” have exhausted all of their appeals and maneuvers. It only remains for them to face the music and pay the price for their crimes.
Supreme Court declines to undo sanctions on pro-Trump 2020 campaign lawyers
The Supreme Court on Tuesday declined to undo sanctions against several lawyers allied with former President Trump for filing a meritless lawsuit challenging Michigan’s 2020 presidential election r…
thehill.com
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As With Carroll, So With James
"'If [Trump] does not have funds to pay off the judgment, then we will seek judgment enforcement mechanisms in court, and we will ask the judge to seize his assets,' James said in an interview with ABC News' Aaron Katersky." (Source)
"'If [Trump] does not have funds to pay off the judgment, then we will seek judgment enforcement mechanisms in court, and we will ask the judge to seize his assets,' James said in an interview with ABC News' Aaron Katersky." (Source)
Stacking up the endorsements:
truthsocial.com
Truth Social
Truth Social is America's "Big Tent" social media platform that encourages an open, free, and honest global conversation without discriminating on the basis of political ideology.
truthsocial.com
Trump Campaign Fundraising and Spending Looking Grim
"On Tuesday, Trump’s “Save America” leadership political action committee reported raising just $8,508 from donors in the entire month of January, while spending about $3.9 million, according to a new filing with the Federal Election Commission.
"Nearly $3 million of that overall spending total was used for one purpose: to pay lawyers.
"At the same time, the Trump campaign itself reported a net loss of more than $2.6 million for the month of January. It raised about $8.8 million while spending around $11.5 million, according to a separate filing made public on Tuesday."
"On Tuesday, Trump’s “Save America” leadership political action committee reported raising just $8,508 from donors in the entire month of January, while spending about $3.9 million, according to a new filing with the Federal Election Commission.
"Nearly $3 million of that overall spending total was used for one purpose: to pay lawyers.
"At the same time, the Trump campaign itself reported a net loss of more than $2.6 million for the month of January. It raised about $8.8 million while spending around $11.5 million, according to a separate filing made public on Tuesday."
Donald Trump’s Cash Crunch Just Got Much, Much Worse
New federal campaign finance filings reveal that Trump is burning through donors’ funds as he struggles to fund his legal defense and his 2024 campaign.
www.thedailybeast.com
That's a pretty weak report, and it is suspect on its face. The full story is here. The only reference to fundraising is, "A source familiar told Fox News Digital that Trump is expected to bring in more than $6 million at this single event."
That statement comes shortly after the actual news of Trump's actual fundraising results, shown in real-world FEC reports, is grim for Trump. And it comes from an unnamed source.
Perhaps you can favor the EO readers by substantiating this $6 million fundraising result. The "single event" was said to have happened yesterday. Are there any follow-up reports from named sources that substantiate the number? Where was the event? How many were in attendance? How much money was actually raised there? How much was pledged? How much did people pay per seat to attend? Did this "single event" include an online opportunity for people to make donations? If so, what was the total raised on-site and online? And finally, how do we know?
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More than 6.8 million:
Trump brings in more than $6.8 million from Greenville, South Carolina, fundraiser ahead of primary
Former President Donald Trump brought in over $6 million at a campaign in Greenville, South Carolina, Tuesday night.
OK. I acknowledge $6.8 million was raised, as reported by named sources. Smart move by Trump to make this Haley crushing show in her home state just before the SC primary election. This partly explains Trump's weak January fundraising numbers. He was stockpiling the pledges to make this February show. It seems hie called in his "star-studded" donors to make this impact.More than 6.8 million:
Trump brings in more than $6.8 million from Greenville, South Carolina, fundraiser ahead of primary
Former President Donald Trump brought in over $6 million at a campaign in Greenville, South Carolina, Tuesday night.abcnews.go.com
View attachment 23632
Haley's response is to not quit. See this.
Trump's Bonding Challenges
The following points are made regarding Trump's appeal of the $355 million New York civil fraud ruling, but the same issues apply to the $83.3 million Carroll ruling, which Trump has also vowed to appeal. Combined, these are serious challenges for Trump.
News recently broke about a $4 billion (billion with a B) windfall coming Trump's way from the likely DWAC/Trump Media merger. Two things about that.
First, that $4 billion figure was stated at the DWAC stock price of the day. Five days later that price is 10% lower. This is a highly volatile stock and the value of this entity will vary by the day. That stock could easily lose half its value in a matter of days. It has done so before. Still, the windfall is in the billions, which is a lot of money.
Second, the merger has not gone through yet. While it is likely to do so, Trump cannot immediately use those funds as he pleases. By rule, his shares are restricted stock. They cannot be traded or used as collateral or otherwise leveraged until six months have elapsed after the merger date. While the windfall is great for Trump, the money is not available to Trump before the 30 day window closes to appeal the above-mentioned cases.
The Carroll appeal window closes in early March. The New York 30-dayt clock has not yet started ticking. Judge Engoron has not yet filed the final judgement order (a formality). He is expected to do so soon. Trump then has 30 days in which he can post the cash or bond, and appeal.
Below are excerpts from a CNBC article that discusses Trump's challenges (bold emphasis mine):
-------------------------------------------------
Trump on Friday was ordered to pay about $355 million in penalties, plus more than $98 million in interest after a judge found the former president liable for fraud for manipulating financial statements given to lenders. Every day, the accruing interest adds $87,502 to Trump’s bill.
Unless he wants to pay the entire penalty while his expected appeal is considered, Trump will need to post an appeal bond. This is typically up to 120% of the judgment plus the current interest.
At that rate, Trump’s original ruling with interest would indicate he will need to secure a bond worth more than $540 million. But it’s unlikely that the real estate baron will be able to use his properties as collateral.
... bond agents may have reservations about working with Trump, whose business practices and claims about his wealth have been successfully challenged in court.
An appeal of Judge Arthur Engoron’s ruling could take years to play out [with interest accruing every day].
Trump, who said in a deposition last year that he had “substantially in excess of $400 million in cash,” could technically deposit the full judgment against him, plus interest, as he challenges the judgment. But his lawyer has already said that he will secure a bond.
“We have to post the bond, which is the full amount and some,” Trump attorney Alina Habba told Fox News on Monday.
The following points are made regarding Trump's appeal of the $355 million New York civil fraud ruling, but the same issues apply to the $83.3 million Carroll ruling, which Trump has also vowed to appeal. Combined, these are serious challenges for Trump.
News recently broke about a $4 billion (billion with a B) windfall coming Trump's way from the likely DWAC/Trump Media merger. Two things about that.
First, that $4 billion figure was stated at the DWAC stock price of the day. Five days later that price is 10% lower. This is a highly volatile stock and the value of this entity will vary by the day. That stock could easily lose half its value in a matter of days. It has done so before. Still, the windfall is in the billions, which is a lot of money.
Second, the merger has not gone through yet. While it is likely to do so, Trump cannot immediately use those funds as he pleases. By rule, his shares are restricted stock. They cannot be traded or used as collateral or otherwise leveraged until six months have elapsed after the merger date. While the windfall is great for Trump, the money is not available to Trump before the 30 day window closes to appeal the above-mentioned cases.
The Carroll appeal window closes in early March. The New York 30-dayt clock has not yet started ticking. Judge Engoron has not yet filed the final judgement order (a formality). He is expected to do so soon. Trump then has 30 days in which he can post the cash or bond, and appeal.
Below are excerpts from a CNBC article that discusses Trump's challenges (bold emphasis mine):
-------------------------------------------------
Trump on Friday was ordered to pay about $355 million in penalties, plus more than $98 million in interest after a judge found the former president liable for fraud for manipulating financial statements given to lenders. Every day, the accruing interest adds $87,502 to Trump’s bill.
Unless he wants to pay the entire penalty while his expected appeal is considered, Trump will need to post an appeal bond. This is typically up to 120% of the judgment plus the current interest.
At that rate, Trump’s original ruling with interest would indicate he will need to secure a bond worth more than $540 million. But it’s unlikely that the real estate baron will be able to use his properties as collateral.
... bond agents may have reservations about working with Trump, whose business practices and claims about his wealth have been successfully challenged in court.
An appeal of Judge Arthur Engoron’s ruling could take years to play out [with interest accruing every day].
Trump, who said in a deposition last year that he had “substantially in excess of $400 million in cash,” could technically deposit the full judgment against him, plus interest, as he challenges the judgment. But his lawyer has already said that he will secure a bond.
“We have to post the bond, which is the full amount and some,” Trump attorney Alina Habba told Fox News on Monday.
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No Delay for Donald; Pay Up, Loser!
news.yahoo.com
Trump legal news brief: Clerk files final $464 million fraud judgment against Trump, starting clock for him to pay up
A clerk for the New York County Supreme Court enters in the judgment for former President Donald Trump’s financial fraud trial and New York Attorney General Letitia James submits paperwork that starts a 30-day countdown until Trump is forced to begin paying off the $464,576,230 civil judgment...
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Ruh roh ... The Orange Sneaker Salesman™ better watch out:
Biden holds 4-point lead over Trump in Quinnipiac poll
Biden holds 4-point lead over Trump in Quinnipiac poll
I wonder how much stock muttly will put in this poll. He loves touting the polls that show Trump ahead. I say polls this far out are meaningless. He continues to post them as if they matter. If those he posts matter, does this one matter too?Ruh roh ... The Orange Sneaker Salesman™ better watch out:
Biden holds 4-point lead over Trump in Quinnipiac poll