The Trump Card...

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Can Trump Comply?

Judge orders Trump and his attorneys to keep quiet about the evidence in the documents case. ... I give it a 50/50 probability that Trump's self-control will fail him and he'll find himself in trouble with the Court.
I'm changing the odds to 70/30 that Trump will fail to comply with the judge's order and find himself i trouble with the Court.

Last night, I saw the news and commentary about Jack Smith turning over a trove of evidence to Trump's lawyers, as is required under the discovery rules. The prosecution must share its evidence with the defense.

While that was expected, observers were surprised at the speed at which Smith delivered his evidence to Trump. They were also surprised to learn Smith turned over far more information than was required. And not only that, the prosecutors bookmarked and/or highlighted the key items in that large trove of documents to make it easy for the defense to see the strength of the evidence and the exact strategy Smith intends to use at trial.

It's like Smith drew a royal flush and he's showing his cards so the Trump team knows they're beat.

More evidence will be turned over when Trump's lawyers obtain the security clearances they earlier applied for. Though, that in itself presents an interesting dilemma to the Trump team. If the information has been declassified, why are security clearances needed to view it?

That classification question aside, I'm changing my estimate from 50/50 to 70/30 because with the evidence he now has, Trump can see, for the first time, the names of the witnesses and the transcripts of what those witnesses told the grand jury.

Trump's usual practice is to fiercely attack anyone who speaks out against him. Now that he knows who said what to the grand jury, I don't Trump will be able to contain himself and comply with the judge's order. Every fiber of his being is conditioned by a lifetime of behavior to lash out. One day, when his judgement fails him, or when he is tired or especially frustrated, the probability is high that Trump will slip or intentionally ignore his attorneys. advice to keep quiet.

With what Smith just turned over, Trump is learning exactly how public statements he himself made are being used against him. Will he learn his lesson and stop talking about the case? 100% no. Will he be more careful so as to comply with the judge's order and not talk about the evidence? Probably not.

Related:

"The Justice Department has provided the first batch of evidence in the classified documents case to Donald Trump's legal team, which includes multiple 'interviews' of the former president 'conducted by non-government entities,' which legal experts believe could be used against him.

"The evidence also includes transcripts of grand jury testimony taken in both Washington and Florida, materials collected via subpoenas and search warrants, witness interviews conducted through mid-May and copies of the surveillance footage investigators obtained in the investigation, according to CNN."
(Source)
 
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muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Trump’s lawyers should gather all the times the DOJ leaked evidence when they submit their motions to the court. Unfair that they are able to leak information and make public but Trump has to be quiet.
 
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danthewolf00

Veteran Expediter
Trump’s lawyers should gather all the times the DOJ leaked evidence when they submit their motions to the court. Unfair that they are able to leak information and make public but Trump has to be quiet.
I am surprised Adam schiff isn't mouthing off more now that he has been censured and removed from committees.
 
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Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I am surprised Adam schiff isn't mouthing off more now that he has been censured and removed from committees.
No doubt we'll get an overdose of his nonsense as he get deeper into his Senate campaign. Fortunately, most of it will probably be confined to CA where crazy is the norm.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Trump’s lawyers should gather all the times the DOJ leaked evidence when they submit their motions to the court. Unfair that they are able to leak information and make public but Trump has to be quiet.
Yes they should. There must be a reason why they are not doing so since it would benefit Trump if they did. Why do you think Trump's lawyers are not gathering the times DOJ leaked evidence? Why are they not presenting the complaint you say they should?
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Do you know why Smith requested the delay? Do you know what he told the Court when making the request?
Based on opinions from some of the legal pundits, Trump would be in a much better position if the trial were delayed until after the election. His attorneys may agree and would gladly drag things out beyond then.
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Do you know why Smith requested the delay? Do you know what he told the Court when making the request?
Based on opinions from some of the legal pundits, Trump would be in a much better position if the trial were delayed until after the election. His attorneys may agree and would gladly drag things out beyond then.
Prosecutors with special counsel Jack Smith’s team asked Cannon to reschedule the trial for Dec. 11. They said the delay was necessary because the case involves classified information and will require Trump’s lawyers to obtain security clearances.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Yes they should. There must be a reason why they are not doing so since it would benefit Trump if they did. Why do you think Trump's lawyers are not gathering the times DOJ leaked evidence? Why are they not presenting the complaint you say they should?
How do you know they aren’t doing it now? There is a process for that.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Based on opinions from some of the legal pundits, Trump would be in a much better position if the trial were delayed until after the election. His attorneys may agree and would gladly drag things out beyond then.
There is no pressing issue that would warrant a trial before the election. The statute of limitations won’t run out either. Moving the trial date until after the election would help remove interference and influence with the upcoming election.
Meanwhile, Trump’s lawyer team could pursue the many legal objections of his case, which there are several.
They have excellent arguments that should significantly undercut the charges if not entirely throw the case out.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
How do you know they aren’t doing it now? There is a process for that.
I presume they are not doing it now because the time to file that complaint or answer would have been the same time when DOJ filed to prevent Trump from talking about the evidence. The claim that DOJ leaks is longstanding. This is nothing new. If it was actually true and if Trump's attorney's saw an advantage to making that complaint, they would have done so by now, methinks.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
There is no pressing issue that would warrant a trial before the election. The statute of limitations won’t run out either. Moving the trial date until after the election would help remove interference and influence with the upcoming election.
Meanwhile, Trump’s lawyer team could pursue the many legal objections of his case, which there are several.
They have excellent arguments that should significantly undercut the charges if not entirely throw the case out.
I agree. Most of the pundits I listen to say the same thing. According to them, it is best for Trump to drag the trial out past the election because it is virtually certain he is going to lose this case. The case is very strong. The evidence is clear. According to the pundits, who freely engage in mind reading, Trump hopes to drag the case out so he can either win the election and pardon himself, or order the DOJ to simply drop the case. Or he may see a Republican win the election and hope that Republican president pardons Trump or have DOJ drop the case.

Of course for either of those scenarios to work, Trump or a Republican must win the election. With abortion rising as a mobilizing issue, I think that is unlikely.

Trump has numerous delay tactics at his disposal. I'd be surprised if this trial concludes before the election.
 
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danthewolf00

Veteran Expediter
I agree. Most of the pundits I listen to say the same thing. According to them, it is best for Trump to drag the trial out past the election because it is virtually certain he is going to lose this case. The case is very strong. The evidence is clear. According to the pundits, who freely engage in mind reading, Trump hopes to drag the case out so he can either win the election and pardon himself, or order the DOJ to simply drop the case. Or he may see a Republican win the election and hope that Republican president pardons Trump or have DOJ drop the case.

Of course for either of those scenarios to work, Trump or a Republican must win the election. With abortion rising as a mobilizing issue, I think that is unlikely.

Trump has numerous delay tactics at his disposal. I'd be surprised if this trial concludes before the election.
You do raise a good question....can a president pardon himself? Any why didn't trump pardon himself before the impeachment process started....
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
You do raise a good question....can a president pardon himself? Any why didn't trump pardon himself before the impeachment process started....
It has never happened that a US president tried to pardon himself so the question has never been answered. If one did, the question would likely be answered by the Supreme Court.
 
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muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I agree. Most of the pundits I listen to say the same thing. According to them, it is best for Trump to drag the trial out past the election because it is virtually certain he is going to lose this case. The case is very strong. The evidence is clear. According to the pundits, who freely engage in mind reading, Trump hopes to drag the case out so he can either win the election and pardon himself, or order the DOJ to simply drop the case. Or he may see a Republican win the election and hope that Republican president pardons Trump or have DOJ drop the case.

Of course for either of those scenarios to work, Trump or a Republican must win the election. With abortion rising as a mobilizing issue, I think that is unlikely.

Trump has numerous delay tactics at his disposal. I'd be surprised if this trial concludes before the election.
The case is extremely weak.
Trump has said numerous times that he believed those documents were legitimately his. ( per 2012 Clinton presidential audio tapes court case precedent) That goes against the intent to obstruct.

Also, the attorney/ client privilege was erroneously breached. There was no fraud exception met. Asking his lawyers options and hypotheticals doesn’t meet the criteria for breaking the law. He would have to give a direct and unambiguous order to someone to break the law. No indication that he did. The indictment even has quotes that back up asking layers options.

Then, you have one of the prosecutors in the case allegedly threaten one of Trump ‘s associates of losing an opportunity for a job unless he gives up “dirt” on him.
That allegation by a highly respected attorney should be thoroughly investigated and if true, should cripple whatever weak case they have left.

You also have a breach of Trump’s constitution right pursuant to the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment.
Selectively prosecuting Trump, while a history of cases aren’t pursued.
Such as : LBJ giving Nixon recordings to his assistant, Jimmy Carter, AG Alberto Gonzalez, Bill Clinton, and Hillary, Mike Pence. All weren’t prosecuted on a rarely used Espionage Act.

And Trump has a much stronger case than a few of of those listed because they weren’t President and don’t fall under the Presidential records act that began to be used in 1981.
 
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muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You do raise a good question....can a president pardon himself? Any why didn't trump pardon himself before the impeachment process started....
He could pardon himself. He would be the chief law enforcement officer of the country.
Impeachment proceedings are only political procedures and not criminal. He couldn’t pardon himself from an impeachment vote.
He wasn’t charged with a crime while in office. The unhinged Left waited until he was out of office to bring unfounded criminal charges.
 
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