The Trump Card...

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
A number of people, some who have a vote on the impeachment question, seem to think otherwise.
Yep. Those are the ones who are reading War and Peace between the lines. As Adam Schiff so ably demonstrated with his version of the phone call.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
I almost never look at Trump's Twitter feed but did so today out of curiosity. In the last hour, he has tweeted or retweeted eight times. In the 23 hours before that he did so 17 times. The "hours ago/tweets" breakdown is:

24/2
22/4
20/1
19/4
18/4
17/1
16/1
15/1
14/1
6/3
5/1
4/2
1/8

That's 25 tweets in 24 hours. Some of the retweets include videos that require time to watch. Is this normal? Is this how we want the President of the United States focusing his mind and spending his time?
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
That's 25 tweets in 24 hours. Is this normal?
"Normal" is pretty subjective, but it's not particularly unusual with this president. It's the one absolute way that he can ensure his words aren't fileted by the media.
Is this how we want the President of the United States focusing his mind and spending his time?
You mean spending his time in communicating directly with the American people? Sure, why not? As far as focusing his mind, he can multi-task like nobody. Don't forget, he's a stable genius.
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter

Wait ! What ? Did the president of the United States attempt to intimidate, maybe even threaten, a witness in a legal government inquiry ? Can’t wait to hear the republican spin on this.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter

Wait ! What ? Did the president of the United States attempt to intimidate, maybe even threaten, a witness in a legal government inquiry ? Can’t wait to hear the republican spin on this.
Juuuust remember what Obama did to whistleblowers and leakers. Not threaten, but did.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
As usual, they are going on a two week vacation. They meaning the house and senate. Once they digest that silliness over two weeks, then reality will set it. It will be high stakes if they try to impeach based on what we have heard so far.
 
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Turtle

Administrator
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Retired Expediter
That'sn an interesting piece from Napolitano published by Fox News. Excerpt:

The Constitution is quite clear that "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors" shall constitute a basis for impeachment.
Was Trump offering to bribe the Ukrainian president? The circumstantial evidence is: Yes.
It's not hard to find dissenting opinions amongst lawyers. But...
Judge Nap, in the words of another legal opinion, "is a fool." He's not a constitutional lawyer or scholar. He's never been a federal prosecutor or investigator, never served on a federal special prosecutor staff. His Fox News opinions on federal matters are right about 40% of the time, if that. He's also a devoted anti-Trumper. He's not a Republican.

If this is Trump offering a bribe to the Ukrainian president, which it's not, then every president we've ever had is guilty of the same thing. Every communication between world leaders is a negotiation, even when nothing specific is being negotiated, and every negotiation involves a give and take, if you do, or do not do, this or that, then we'll do, or not do, this or that.

On a side note, if Biden has unsavory and possible blackmail-able ties to Ukraine, and he is a front runner in a presidential election, wouldn't you want that investigated before voting for him?
 
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Turtle

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Retired Expediter
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Grizzly

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
If this is Trump offering a bribe to the Ukrainian president, which it's not, then every president we've ever had is guilty of the same thing. Every communication between world leaders is a negotiation, even when nothing specific is being negotiated, and every negotiation involves a give and take, if you do, or do not do, this or that, then we'll do, or not do, this or that.

It's not just the communication that has Trump in hot water, it's the action. Holding up hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to Ukraine in order to apply pressure on them to investigate a leading candidate in the next presidential election. That's not different!? Ya don't think there's anything wrong with that?
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Holding up hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to Ukraine in order to apply pressure on them to investigate a leading candidate in the next presidential election.
Can you point to the place in the transcript where that took place? That's rhetorical, because I already know you can't.
That Trump withheld money in exchange for something is actually not uncommon at all. Would you give money to someone without even talking to them first?

But in thise case, at the time of that phone call, Ukraine didn't even know they money was being held up, so it's hard to even imagine that it was held out as a carrot in exchange for anything.

But again, I ask, if Biden has possible unsavory or blackmail-able ties to Ukraine, do you not want that investigated before the election? Or would you rather have something like that come out after he got elected? Is it really a case of, since Biden is a political rival of Trump, that therefore Biden should be totally hands off?

If so, that's gonna get real tricky when you apply it in the other direction. Oh, wait, that already happened, didn't it?
 
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Grizzly

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Can you point to the place in the transcript where that took place? That's rhetorical, because I already know you can't.
That Trump withheld money in exchange for something is actually not uncommon at all. Would you give money to someone without even talking to them first?

But in those case, at the time of that phone call, Ukraine didn't even know they money was being held up, so it's hard to even imagine that it was held out as a carrot in exchange for anything.

But again, I ask, if Biden has possible unsavory or blackmail-able ties to Ukraine, do you not want that investigated before the election? Or would you rather have something like that come out after he got elected? Is it really a case of, since Biden is a political rival of Trump, that therefore Biden should be totally hands off?

If so, that's gonna get real tricky when you apply it in the other direction. Oh, wait, that already happened, didn't it?

Why did he personally hold up the payments?

Edit: Why did Trump personally hold up the payments?
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
It's not hard to find dissenting opinions amongst lawyers. But...
Judge Nap, in the words of another legal opinion, "is a fool."

To me, the significance of the piece is not Napolitano's opinion. It's that Fox News chose to publish it. Watch for more of this. Watch for signs that Fox News support for Trump is weakening. Watch for Fox to turn on Trump as Trump himself grows weaker, polls prompt Republicans to speak against Trump more and the Trump base fades. I've been watching for this for a long time and have been surprised by the resiliency of the base. This time is different.

Again, with Nixon, he enjoyed strong support until he didn't.. Voters, including Trump voters, swing back and forth over time. Except for a small minority of die-hards, there is nothing permenant about any politician's base.
 

Turtle

Administrator
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Retired Expediter
Why did he personally hold up the payments?

Edit: Why did Trump personally hold up the payments?
Will, I just covered that. A), Ukraine didn't even know the money was being held up at the time of that phone call, so it wasn't withheld in an explicit exchange for anything, and B), you're not going to just blindly hand over money like that to someone before you two to them, before you size them up a bit. A newly elected president who ran in anti corruption, Trump wanted to get a sense of whether or not he was indeed anti corruption. That much is right there in the conversation.
 
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