The Trump Card...

[Turtle]

Are you kidding?

No.

What they are talking about is “democratic socialism”

No they aren't. They're talking about Keynesian Economic Socialism and/or colloquial socialism without realizing it. It's an old and tired argument that goes back to even before the advent of democratic socialism in the 19th century, and it's an argument that always loses when logic gets aplied. And it's why it's accurate to state that people who think government-run institutions are socialism don't understand socialism or the institution they are talking about.

You should do some research and see the difference.

Oh, gee! I never thought of that!

 

[Moot]

Socialism is rooted in envy.

I'm just sayin'.

 

[Moot]

Good point on the fentanyl, another thing about that is who financially benefits from all the drug overdoses, the company that manufacturers narcan, they are making a killing,

Pharma companies that make Narcan are making a killing but ironically that killing (financial) is by saving lives. My son is a cop. His PD has had Narcan available to all officers for several years. He has revived some opioid ODers more than once. So I guess Narcan is as addictive as opioids.

Other benefactors of the Fentanyl/opioid problem are hospitals, mortuaries, clean up services like Serv Pro, Democrat Party coffers, necrophiliacs and expedite cargo vanners.[/QUOTE]

 

[Turtle]

On Trump's official website, if you encounter an error, you don't merely get a 404 Not Found error page.

Instead, you get this... Hillary as President standing at the podium with the Presidential Seal.

 

[ATeam]

I've been saying for some time that Trump will be impeached. A significant step in that direction was taken today:

House Speaker Pelosi said, "Today I'm announcing the House of Representatives is moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry."

Those who said the House would never impeach may wish to reconsider that view. House sentiment for impeachment has clearly changed. There of course remains the Senate but i believe it's sentiment will also shift toward impeachment as Trump continues to be Trump.

 

[Ragman]

There of course remains the Senate but i believe it's sentiment will also shift toward impeachment as Trump continues to be Trump.

It's already shifting...

Senate votes 100-0 to release Trump whistleblower complaint

The latest Speed Read,/speed-reads,,speed-reads, breaking news, comment, reviews and features from the experts at The Week

theweek.com

 

[Turtle]

I've been saying for some time that Trump will be impeached. A significant step in that direction was taken today:

House Speaker Pelosi said, "Today I'm announcing the House of Representatives is moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry."

Pelosi's announcement doesn't change anything. No steps taken. Every committee in the House has been conducting an impeachment inquiry ever since the Dems took over in January. And they'v been investigating since before he was even elected. If they had anything at all, they'd do something on the floor. But Nancy knows they don't have the votes and they know what happened to the Speaker the last time a president was impeached. All she did today was placate the base, and nothing else. There hasn't even been a House vote on a resolution to begin a formal impeachment investigation.

They've been doing an impeachment investigation for months, now they're moving forward with an official inquiry, which will then lead to a vote on an official investigation, which might lead to a vote on impeachment. Even American Idol doesn't take that many baby steps towards revealing the winner.

Those who said the House would never impeach may wish to reconsider that view.

Maybe, but not at this juncture. If the House votes to impeach the president within a year of an election, without an overwhelming slam-dunk case, the American people will revolt, at the ballot box. And the Dems know it.

 

[Grizzly]

Is it too much to ask to see the transcript of the communication between Trump & Zelensky?

This matter will be so much more entertaining if it's found out there's a Russian connection that pointed Trump to make these inquiries.

Idk, I could see the Republicans taking the opportunity to rid themselves of Trump. Toss Pence in, wipe the slate clean for the election.

 

[Turtle]

Is it too much to ask to see the transcript of the communication between Trump & Zelensky?

I dunno. Is it too much to ask to see the transcript of the communication between Trump & <insert every other foreign leader here>?

If a foreign leader thinks their conversations with the president might be leaked by some Deep State yahoo, or worse, the transcript is released, they'd never talk on the phone to a US president again.

 

[ATeam]

All she did today was placate the base, and nothing else.

You're making my point. House sentiment has shifted and Pelosi's response indicates that very thing. Time will tell whether there is "nothing else."

I think there is more. It is no small thing that a Speaker of the House who previously resisted impeachment talk has now announced the House is moving forward with an official impeachment inquiry. Your procedural points aside, this is a major leadership shift. The number of representatives on public record in favor of impeachment has steadily grown in recent months. If Pelosi's announcement is nothing more than a response to that, it means the House is getting close to having enough votes to impeach if they are not there already.

It is also interesting to note the new developments regarding Trump's communications with the Ukraine president. That seems to have sparked additional impeachment interest in the House, and, as Ragman said above, it seems to have quieted Trump's defenders in the Senate, at least for the moment.

The House impeaches, the Senate convicts. Just as Pelosi's announcement is no small thing, the Senate's unanimous consent regarding the whistleblower complaint is also significant. That unanimous consent resolution indicates a major leadership shift on the Republican side. Something is different with this Ukraine thing. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[ATeam]

If they had anything at all, they'd do something on the floor.

They have plenty. When the articles of impeachment are drafted, everything they have will be presented. We've already seen much of it come out of previous investigations. Continuing investigations are continuing to develop new evidence as they chip away at the anti-transparency, anti-accountability walls Trump has erected.

I think one of the reasons the Ukraine thing has been such an attention-grabber in both the House and Senate is its utter simplicity. It happened not in the past but while Trump was in office. The conversations were had with Trump directly involved. There are no complicated bank records or tax returns needed to shed light. The whistleblower complaint seems to have non-partisan credibility. The accusations, as known so far, have the potential to rise to an impeachable offense. Credible transcripts and tapes exist. And, Trump being Trump, has blurted out several statements that could turn out to be self-incriminating.

This is different than past developments, so much so that it silenced Trump's traditional defenders in the Senate when a consent motion was presented. Not a single Republican rose in opposition to Democrat Schumer's motion. That's rare and it indicates something important has developed.

 

[Turtle]

This is

This is different than past developments, so much so that it silenced Trump's traditional defenders in the Senate when a consent motion was presented. Not a single Republican rose in opposition to Democrat Schumer's motion. That's rare and it indicates something important has developed.

This is exactly the same as Russia Collusion. Everything is based on hopes, wishes, reading between the lines to create something, when nothing is there. Don't read more into the resolution than is there. Not a single Republican rose in opposition to the resolution, in no small part because Trump himself had already stated that the whistleblower complaint should be released.

And it's not even a whistleblower. This will turn out to be just someone in the Intel community who doesn't like Trump or his policies.

 

[davekc]

Looks like another nothing burger.
looks like Biden might have some issues coming.

 

[ATeam]

But Nancy knows they don't have the votes ...

As of Wednesday night, 218 House of Representatives members have indicated support for impeachment proceedings.

 

[ATeam]

If the House votes to impeach the president within a year of an election, without an overwhelming slam-dunk case, the American people will revolt, at the ballot box. And the Dems know it.

They know they have a slam-dunk case in the making.
They also know that opinion shifts. Americans backed Nixon until they didn't. Republican representatives and senators backed Nixon until they didn't. Nixon was strong until he wasn't.

 

[Turtle]

As of Wednesday night, 218 House of Representatives members have indicated support for impeachment proceedings.

Then they should write up articles of Impeachment, assuming they've reached the point of being able to articulate any of them, and take it to tie House floor for a vote. But they won't.

 

[ATeam]

Then they should write up articles of Impeachment, assuming they've reached the point of being able to articulate any of them, and take it to tie House floor for a vote. But they won't.

The impeachment inquiry comes first. The actual decision to put it to a vote on the House floor will come later. Momentum in that direction has clearly accelerated now that Pelosi has dropped her opposition to impeachment and the new Ukraine development has added fuel to the fire.

When they deem themselves ready to act, the Democrats are fully capable of articulating the articles of impeachment.

Note that it's not like the Democrats have easy access to everything they need to develop articles that will withstand the scrutiny and partisanship of the Senate. Trump has resisted House subpoenas and requests at every turn. While investigations continue on several fronts, Trump is opposing each one by all means available to him. Bit by bit the Dems and state and federal prosecuters in other offices are chipping away at the walls Trump builds. It's only a matter of time before they break through.

Drafting the articles (or a single article) will be no problem for the Democrats. Exactly when it will happen remains to be seen, but it will happen.

 

[ATeam]

And it's not even a whistleblower. This will turn out to be just someone in the Intel community who doesn't like Trump or his policies.

From a recent AP report:

"The complaint also provides a road map for corroborating witnesses, which will complicate the president’s effort to characterize the findings as those of a lone partisan out to undermine him."

From CNN:

"Acting Director of National Intelligence Joseph Maguire said he believes both the whistleblower who filed the complaint against President Trump and the inspector general who handled it "acted in good faith."

Note that Maguire is a Trump appointee.

Mcquire Quote:

"First, I want to stress I believe the whistle-blower and the inspector general have acted in good faith throughout," he said. "I have every reason to believe that they have done everything by the book and followed the law."

 

[Turtle]

"Acting in good faith" simply means with "sincerety of intention." Peter Strzok acted in good faith, because he believed it was his job to save the country from what he believed was a threat. Same with Andrew McCabe, and James Comey, and a litany of others. Acting in good faith is not the same as acting properly, it simply means the whistleblower and the IG didn't make stuff up.

In any event, there is nothing in the phone call or the complaint that is impeachable, at least not without reading an entire novel between the lines and doing a lot of mind reading.

As for the president thwarting the efforts of Congressional Democrats who want to remove him from office, I'm shocked, shocked I tell you, that the president refuses to become an active participant in his own political witch hunt. It's unprecedented!

 

[ATeam]

In any event, there is nothing in the phone call or the complaint that is impeachable,...

A number of people, some who have a vote on the impeachment question, seem to think otherwise.