The Trump Card...

[Turtle]

I'm on board with tarrifs and sticking it to China.
Of course .. I don't grow soybean, export aircrafts or cars.
Oh well ...

THe US can soooo get along just fine without China as a trade partner. We did for decades. If Trump were to cut China off like a switch, yeah, it would be difficult for a lot of Americans, but only in the short term. WIthin months or a handful of years, manufacturing would be reestablished or ramped up domestically to make up for it, and we'd be better off for it long term. Commodities, like soybeans and other farmed goods, will quickly find another destination. The market (along with farm subsidies, price controls, and harvest limits) dictate that if China suddenly stopped buying from American farmers, they'd have to buy from somebody else, and the commodities that those countries are now selling to China, instead of somewhere else, would be made up by American farmers.

China needs the US way more than the US needs China. The slightest disruption in trade with China really put a hurt on China. Not so much with the US.

 

[Grizzly]

THe US can soooo get along just fine without China as a trade partner. We did for decades. If Trump were to cut China off like a switch, yeah, it would be difficult for a lot of Americans, but only in the short term. WIthin months or a handful of years, manufacturing would be reestablished or ramped up domestically to make up for it, and we'd be better off for it long term. Commodities, like soybeans and other farmed goods, will quickly find another destination. The market (along with farm subsidies, price controls, and harvest limits) dictate that if China suddenly stopped buying from American farmers, they'd have to buy from somebody else, and the commodities that those countries are now selling to China, instead of somewhere else, would be made up by American farmers.

China needs the US way more than the US needs China. The slightest disruption in trade with China really put a hurt on China. Not so much with the US.

Agreed!
Why did the powers that be decide to boost China's economy by manufacturing billions of dollars of goods there? Increase China's wealth, influence and everything else that comes along with it. Largest communist country in the world ... mind boggling. I understand money drives everything but better options can be developed.

 

[muttly]

I do agree the U.S. should win the trade war. But the major obstacle would be the political climate here. The Dems will use any fluctuation in the stock market or dip in the GDP or job numbers as a cudgel against Trump. (Old enough to remember when Dems were against China taking advantage of the U.S.) Now some of the Presidential candidates are making promises of ending the tariffs when they get elected President. China is taking a keen eye at those assertions and imo, are in a waiting game to see who the next President will be. If it's one of the Dems, then they know their patience will be of value. If it is Trump, they will realize that they will have to cut a deal with the U.S.

 

[coalminer]

China is killing tens of thousands of Americans every year, intentionally. What would you have the Commander In Chief do about it?

I don’t know if you can blame China for that seems to me it’s mostly American companies that are shifting production to China to put more money in their pockets.


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[Turtle]

I don’t know if you can blame China for that seems to me it’s mostly American companies that are shifting production to China to put more money in their pockets.


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Of course you can blame China for it. This isn't a case of pharmaceutical companies shifting production of prescription Fentanyl to China to save money. It's a case of fentanyl being produced with ever-so slight molecular variations to make it technically not fentanyl, and then exporting it like heroine or meth and smuggling it into the US.

President Xi flatly stated that he would classify all fentanyl variants in the same manner, making it illegal in China to manufacture or distribute these slightly altered black market designer fentanyl (punishable by death in China), and after a year now he's done absolutely nothing. Xi knows full well that unprescribed, illegal fentanyl kills roughly 80,000 people a year in the US, a number which is up 1000 percent over the last five years. So China is killing tens of thousands of Americans, quite intentionally. It wouldn't take much of an argument to be able to accurately state that China is using a weapon of mass destruction against the US.

China's trade position currently is, they want the US to give China all of our money, or China will continue killing tens of thousands of Americans. So, we either give in to China's demands (no trade war and let China keep taking all our money and jobs), or we refuse to do so. I'm squarely on the latter position.

 

[coalminer]

Of course you can blame China for it. This isn't a case of pharmaceutical companies shifting production of prescription Fentanyl to China to save money. It's a case of fentanyl being produced with ever-so slight molecular variations to make it technically not fentanyl, and then exporting it like heroine or meth and smuggling it into the US.

President Xi flatly stated that he would classify all fentanyl variants in the same manner, making it illegal in China to manufacture or distribute these slightly altered black market designer fentanyl (punishable by death in China), and after a year now he's done absolutely nothing. Xi knows full well that unprescribed, illegal fentanyl kills roughly 80,000 people a year in the US, a number which is up 1000 percent over the last five years. So China is killing tens of thousands of Americans, quite intentionally. It wouldn't take much of an argument to be able to accurately state that China is using a weapon of mass destruction against the US.

China's trade position currently is, they want the US to give China all of our money, or China will continue killing tens of thousands of Americans. So, we either give in to China's demands (no trade war and let China keep taking all our money and jobs), or we refuse to do so. I'm squarely on the latter position.

Good point on the fentanyl, another thing about that is who financially benefits from all the drug overdoses, the company that manufacturers narcan, they are making a killing, I wouldn’t doubt if they are the reason all this fentanyl is floating around on the streets.


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[dalscott]

I do agree the U.S. should win the trade war. But the major obstacle would be the political climate here. The Dems will use any fluctuation in the stock market or dip in the GDP or job numbers as a cudgel against Trump. (Old enough to remember when Dems were against China taking advantage of the U.S.) Now some of the Presidential candidates are making promises of ending the tariffs when they get elected President. China is taking a keen eye at those assertions and imo, are in a waiting game to see who the next President will be. If it's one of the Dems, then they know their patience will be of value. If it is Trump, they will realize that they will have to cut a deal with the U.S.

Just a suggestion. Not a good idea to generalize. This is one Democrat among many others that I know who are behind him in this one issue. We never should have let it get this bad from the start some 40 years ago. I have been saying this for 40 years, ever since our auto industry got hit so hard because of unfair trading policies.

 

[coalminer]

Just a suggestion. Not a good idea to generalize. This is one Democrat among many others that I know who are behind him in this one issue. We never should have let it get this bad from the start some 40 years ago. I have been saying this for 40 years, ever since our auto industry got hit so hard because of unfair trading policies.

I consider myself a socialist and I’m with you on the trade issues, one would hope this brings back jobs from China but I have a feeling it’s just going to send them to other 3rd world countries, greedy CEOs have to get their ridiculous salaries you know......


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[Turtle]

Socialism is rooted in envy.

I'm just sayin'.

 

[dalscott]

I consider myself a socialist and I’m with you on the trade issues, one would hope this brings back jobs from China but I have a feeling it’s just going to send them to other 3rd world countries, greedy CEOs have to get their ridiculous salaries you know......


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You got it!


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[dalscott]

Socialism is rooted in envy.

I'm just sayin'.

How about the police, fire departments, the public roads we all use, schools, libraries, oh, and the military? The military is really socialist as it owns you, supplies your room, meals, uniforms and so on.
Where is that evil?
You better not use any of them or collect Social Security or Medicare because if you do, you are a hypocrite.


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[Turtle]

How about the police, fire departments, the public roads we all use, schools, libraries, oh, and the military? The military is really socialist as it owns you, supplies your room, meals, uniforms and so on.
Where is that evil?
You better not use any of them or collect Social Security or Medicare because if you do, you are a hypocrite.


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Wow, that's quite the emotional, irrational, knee-jerk reaction, there.

 

[muttly]

Just a suggestion. Not a good idea to generalize. This is one Democrat among many others that I know who are behind him in this one issue. We never should have let it get this bad from the start some 40 years ago. I have been saying this for 40 years, ever since our auto industry got hit so hard because of unfair trading policies.

Just to be clear, when I say Dems, I'm referring to politicians and those in the media, not rank and file Dems.

 

[Turtle]

When I say Dems, I mean all of 'em.

 

[dalscott]

Wow, that's quite the emotional, irrational, knee-jerk reaction, there.

Like it or not, everything I said is true. Truth hurts doesn’t it?


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[coalminer]

Socialism is rooted in envy.

I'm just sayin'.

Well I for one am not envious of people who are wealthy because of their own greed, there are plenty of things that are more important that money.

 

[Turtle]

Like it or not, everything I said is true. Truth hurts doesn’t it?


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Not a single thing you said is true, though.

 

[dalscott]

Not a single thing you said is true, though.

Really? Does the government not own and run the military? Schools, police departments and all the rest.


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[Turtle]

Really? Does the government not own and run the military? Schools, police departments and all the rest.

Yes, the government does own it. But that doesn't make the military socialist. People who think the military is socialist understands neither the military nor socialism. Socialism means collective ownership of the means of production, not "stuff that the government does".

Socialism is a form of government where the product of an individual's labor (not the labor itself, but the products of which that labor produces) belongs to the government or the people as a whole. Socialism is an ideal where every persons labor has equal value, be it a store clerk, computer programmer, surgeon, it's all the same. (wheat, metal, whiskey, computers, jeans, whatever you produce, it all has the same value.) The government owns it and you don't have a right to sell it. The government then redistributes it equally, in theory. That redistribution, in practice, however, can be equatable or completely inequitable.

In order for socialism to exist, something must be produced through labor or effort of some kind. The government would own it And redistribute it. Socialism is absolutely, positively not one group of people supporting another who do no add value through labor.

The military does not, has not and never will produce anything at all. The Government, i.e., We The People, support them in every way.

One might argue that the labor of the military produces death and destruction, but they would be hard pressed to argue for the equal distribution of such a commodity.

If the military were a government, which it is not, it would be classified as a dictatorship of some kind, with a clear chain of hierarchical command. In addition, the military is so selective, exclusionary and discriminatory, to the point of approaching tyrannical, that not even the most tortured interpretation of socialism could apply.

The military is simply an armed branch of the government, which is itself a Democratic Representative Republic, as is all branches of the same Democratic Representative Republic. As well, all members of the military have the right to, and are encouraged to,participate in government as individuals, either through voting as individuals and/or running for office.

 

[dalscott]

Yes, the government does own it. But that doesn't make the military socialist. People who think the military is socialist understands neither the military nor socialism. Socialism means collective ownership of the means of production, not "stuff that the government does".

Socialism is a form of government where the product of an individual's labor (not the labor itself, but the products of which that labor produces) belongs to the government or the people as a whole. Socialism is an ideal where every persons labor has equal value, be it a store clerk, computer programmer, surgeon, it's all the same. (wheat, metal, whiskey, computers, jeans, whatever you produce, it all has the same value.) The government owns it and you don't have a right to sell it. The government then redistributes it equally, in theory. That redistribution, in practice, however, can be equatable or completely inequitable.

In order for socialism to exist, something must be produced through labor or effort of some kind. The government would own it And redistribute it. Socialism is absolutely, positively not one group of people supporting another who do no add value through labor.

The military does not, has not and never will produce anything at all. The Government, i.e., We The People, support them in every way.

One might argue that the labor of the military produces death and destruction, but they would be hard pressed to argue for the equal distribution of such a commodity.

If the military were a government, which it is not, it would be classified as a dictatorship of some kind, with a clear chain of hierarchical command. In addition, the military is so selective, exclusionary and discriminatory, to the point of approaching tyrannical, that not even the most tortured interpretation of socialism could apply.

The military is simply an armed branch of the government, which is itself a Democratic Representative Republic, as is all branches of the same Democratic Representative Republic. As well, all members of the military have the right to, and are encouraged to,participate in government as individuals, either through voting as individuals and/or running for office.

Are you kidding? Nobody wants full socialism. What they are talking about is “democratic socialism”. You should do some research and see the difference.


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