Rethinking 9/11, and other rants

[paullud]

no what i believe was before i even got on the internet . i watched the TV that day . i saw a lot of little thing that were out of place .
like it was not a holiday and it was a work day . only 3000 were killed that day . i thought that big of a building and only that many got killed .

You figured out there were 2750 dead before anyone else? The initial reports were that there were more but somehow you heard those numbers and thought no I bet there are only 2750 dead and the government must be responsible. The numbers actually make a lot of sense considering the planes hit near the top.

and why isn't all of the videos being released to me if i didn't want somebody to know the full story i would not show them all the videos .

They have released the videos and yet again somehow before you fell for the conspiracy theory on the internet you were able to see into the future and know there would be some videos they held for a little while.

and just like how the buildings came down i saw a show how they place dynamite in old buildings and blow them up and don't even hurt buildings around it . and to me the towers came down just like the ones on the show i saw .
there would of been more left if it wasn't planed like more pieces of the office furniture . the concert would of been bigger pieces if it wasn't planed .

The towers did hurt the other buildings around them, building 7, the hotel, the college, they were all damaged by the towers coming down. The size of the concrete and office furniture rubble is a problem for you, how big were they?

and in some of the videos i seen the firemen already on the streets before the first plane even hit . just little stuff like that make me think .

There was a French film crew shooting a documentary on the fire department, so now you think the fire department was involved.

also i know that the government has killed people to get their way ,to keep people quite , or even in some wars they have killed so we could stay at war longer or even for us to go to war .

the main thing is people were killed .is our government handling it the way OUR government should be .

Really you have this information yet you are still alive? Why don't you post this Top Secret information before they off you? We will be able to have the evidence to bring the government down after Obama orders your death.

question is which group is right . which group did the tests and did them the right way .

Well science and common sense proves that the truthers have lied and misled, independent research shows we have the information to prove it was a terrorist attack and nothing more.

have you heard of auto pilot . don't they have drone planes . now stop and think auto pilot and drone planes . the planes that hit the towers . could they been drone planes . or could they been put on auto pilot and the pilot parachuted

Right so we are back to thousands of people being involved in the most complex plot ever and no one has made a mistake. All the phone calls, death certificates, passengers, pilots, air control, and videos from the terrorists were all fake.

and are you sure you are not the one that is believing what other people tell you and you are not doing you own research .

No I have done my own research and I even thought there was a possibility the government was involved but when you look at the evidence it is clear what happened was done by some radical Muslims. The truther sites are based on giving some truth in the beginning then sneaking in a bunch of garbage based on the premise that the people reading it will not bother looking into what is being presented to them anymore.

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[clcooper]

No... it's nothing against your opinion. My original intent was to talk about what 9/11 did, as far as the government taking away our freedoms. But if the conspiracy itself is what you guys want to talk about, I can't stop it. In fact, I'm contributing to it. So it's partially my fault that the thread is veering off course.

sorry i missed this earlier .

the government is taking away our freedoms.

and the ones that do not see the conspiracies. are only helping the government take away our freedoms. and then when all the freedoms are gone they will ask what happened . they will still never realize what happened . and when the ones that dont believe it now will still not believe it when the freedoms are all gone .
the same type of people were having tea with the british .when the rest of their family was fighting the british.

where do we need to start with stopping the government from taking away our freedoms. do you think the conspiracies would be one place to start .

keep drinking the koolaid

 

[scottm4211]

Living proof that crazy people don't realize they're crazy.

 

[paullud]

sorry i missed this earlier .

the government is taking away our freedoms.

and the ones that do not see the conspiracies. are only helping the government take away our freedoms. and then when all the freedoms are gone they will ask what happened . they will still never realize what happened . and when the ones that dont believe it now will still not believe it when the freedoms are all gone .
the same type of people were having tea with the british .when the rest of their family was fighting the british.

where do we need to start with stopping the government from taking away our freedoms. do you think the conspiracies would be one place to start .

keep drinking the koolaid

Why do I need to think the government is responsible for 9/11 to think the Patriot Act is a right grabbing piece of garbage? Please don't go around spreading ignorance like this because then people will think that supporters of the Constitution are also gullible enough to believe anything or that we do not look into what we believe. You are just giving ammunition to those that support a big government and chasing away those that would support the Constitution because they don't want to be associated with truthers. They are two separate issues and should be treated as such.

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[Turtle]

Turtle... I skimmed your post.

Of course you did. Reading it in its entirety might risk a full and comprehensive understanding of what was written. <belch>

As usual, you have outlasted me, simply thru your unwillingness to fail. However, I see you as a failure.

Oh, that's OK. I see you as someone who fails to try.

You can't let a damm thing go.

I'm not the one with a death grip on a belief that they can't let go of.

You are right. I'm wrong. You have the last word, as usual. I'll save you the trouble of replying to my responses, as I'll post them in one big blob: Whatever.
Whatever.
Your opinion.
Whatever.
Your opinion.
So you think.
Whatever.
Your opinion.
Your opinion.

Excellent illustration of someone who even refuses to listen to much less accept the truth, and simply dismisses it out of hand as irrelevant.

Turtle: Vindictive would be editing your post and giving you an official warning for violating Section 14 of the Code of Conduct for editing my words, in effect, impersonating me.

Me: That's your opinion that I'm impersonating you. Now you're going to use your big bad badge to scare me? You forget. I was a mod too. But I was never a tight azz. You don't like something, and you're going to STRETCH the rules as you see fit in order to threaten a member. Well do it. I consider myself warned. Whoopdy hoohah!

Your truth and reality is so screwed up that you think you have been warned (you haven't), and that I in any way used my badge in an attempt to scare you(I wouldn't presume to try). But even you are smart enough to know that editing someone's words while quoting them is wrong. I asked you not to do it again, and did so without warning. A warning shouldn't even be necessary. It's basic civility.

But I can now picture Turtle dancing around the sleeper in his skivvies, singing We Are the Champions. Cest la vie.

Hey!!! I asked you not to post in public about what all you see on my webcam!!!

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Of course you did. Reading it in its entirety might risk a full and comprehensive understanding of what was written. <belch>

No... the repetitiveness would've likely put me to sleep.

Oh, that's OK. I see you as someone who fails to try.

Yeah... I get that from my wife too.

I'm not the one with a death grip on a belief that they can't let go of.

Denial is the second stage. It too shall pass.

Excellent illustration of someone who even refuses to listen to much less accept the truth, and simply dismisses it out of hand as irrelevant.

Now you're claiming to be the truth. Next you'll claim you're the way and the light. And here I thought Obama was the messiah.

No, Turtle, this has gone way beyond a debate. I don't appreciate getting preached to. It's you who can't accept someone has a different truth about things than you do. I've dealt with far too many bullies in my life. I don't feel like doing it again... especially when my thoughts are concerned. I'm done.

Your truth and reality is so screwed up that you think you have been warned (you haven't), and that I in any way used my badge in an attempt to scare you(I wouldn't presume to try). But even you are smart enough to know that editing someone's words while quoting them is wrong. I asked you not to do it again, and did so without warning. A warning shouldn't even be necessary. It's basic civility.

It's a joke. Same as taking a person's words out of context to make them look like a fool. What I did was turn your opinion into my opinion by changing a word or two. Again... Whoopty Hoohah.

Hey!!! I asked you not to post in public about what all you see on my webcam!!!

That was horrid, dude. Cover up!!!

 

[tbubster]

1 here is some truth for you it is Flavor Aid not koolAid Grape to be exact!

2 some truth I want to know.Do the tin foil hats really block the governments mind controlling ray beams?

 

[clcooper]

You figured out there were 2750 dead before anyone else? The initial reports were that there were more but somehow you heard those numbers and thought no I bet there are only 2750 dead and the government must be responsible. The numbers actually make a lot of sense considering the planes hit near the top.

They have released the videos and yet again somehow before you fell for the conspiracy theory on the internet you were able to see into the future and know there would be some videos they held for a little while.

The towers did hurt the other buildings around them, building 7, the hotel, the college, they were all damaged by the towers coming down. The size of the concrete and office furniture rubble is a problem for you, how big were they?

There was a French film crew shooting a documentary on the fire department, so now you think the fire department was involved.

Really you have this information yet you are still alive? Why don't you post this Top Secret information before they off you? We will be able to have the evidence to bring the government down after Obama orders your death.

Well science and common sense proves that the truthers have lied and misled, independent research shows we have the information to prove it was a terrorist attack and nothing more.

Right so we are back to thousands of people being involved in the most complex plot ever and no one has made a mistake. All the phone calls, death certificates, passengers, pilots, air control, and videos from the terrorists were all fake.

No I have done my own research and I even thought there was a possibility the government was involved but when you look at the evidence it is clear what happened was done by some radical Muslims. The truther sites are based on giving some truth in the beginning then sneaking in a bunch of garbage based on the premise that the people reading it will not bother looking into what is being presented to them anymore.

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if a plane could take down a 110 story building why did the same type of plane only do the damage it did to the Pentagon. from what you are saying half of the Pentagon should of been damaged and taken clear to the ground . if you look at the Pentagon pictures you will see much more is left standing .

THEY HAVE NOT RELEASED ALL OF THE VIDEOS .AND EVEN SAY THEY WONT "".the FBI confiscated a hotel security camera video that showed the attack on the Pentagon. It's not known if that tape is being released.""

ok then why was building 7 the only one to fall hours later and it fell straight down too . did it get hit on all sides . or just 1 or 2 sides . COMMON SENSE .

have you every seen a building be taken down .

and who told you it was a French film crew .did you ask them while you were there that day . maybe the police department was out to practice that day too . training for terrorists attacks .

all of the years the red sox never won the world series and that year they did .

i ask you which side is telling the truth the independent ones that got paid by the government . i think that the TRUE independent research are the ones that you don't believe . PLEASE tell me what independent means

how many phone calls were made ?? only need one person to make death certificates,
seating chart
Fred , Joe
jack , bill
sally, Jill
do you know what all of the plane numbers are are .even the flight numbers

air traffic control was sleeping at that time .

a USA film crew goes to the middle east to make a film . do i need to go more in detail or do you think you could think what the film was about .

please tell me your evidence. how many buildings have you demolished. how many planes have you been on ,flew ,etc. how many hours have you said and watched ALL the videos from every camera from the areas.

you say about watching a cartoon and you believe what the cartoon says . so all the spy, war etc. movies there is no truth in them only in the south park CARTOON . i wonder what the planes looked like in the cartoon . probly better in the real life videos .

 

[Tennesseahawk]

if a plane could take down a 110 story building why did the same type of plane only do the damage it did to the Pentagon. from what you are saying half of the Pentagon should of been damaged and taken clear to the ground . if you look at the Pentagon pictures you will see much more is left standing .

-The 110 story building was made predominantly of glass and steel. The Pentagon is made totally of concrete, with no steel. Remember, it was built during WW2, when there was a steel shortage.
-Heat has a different effect on steel, than it does on concrete.
-The tower had how many stories of weight on top of the impact area? How many floors does the Pentagon have?

 

[clcooper]

It's actually very easy to tell. The facts are actual facts, and the ones that are made up are made up facts, drawn from conclusions based on assumptions and straw man arguments engineered to fit a preconceived idea, and then passed off as fact.

As you should know by now, expediting contains people from all walks of life and vocations. There is certainly no shortage of pseudo-lawyers on the CB and at truckstops, but in expediting there are real, actual lawyers... with law degrees and everything. Same with scientists and pretty much every other occupation you can think of. While there are a lot of stupid and ignorant truck drivers out here, it's not a requirement that you turn in all of your knowledge and intelligence in exchange for a CDL. You are allowed to retain use prior your knowledge and experience even as a truck driver.

As far as science, you don't even have to have been, or currently be a scientist to understand the scientific method. A basic high school education does that, provided you paid attention in class. The scientific method of developing a theory and then testing it by observation and experiment, and then adjusting the theory to fit the results, is very exacting and not open to interpretation. The scientific method is also often laborious and slow and not conducive to quick conclusions. When you open it up to interpretation and are looking for quick answers, you see illusory correlations between cause and effect that are not there, you start making assumptions, and you draw conclusions based on those assumptions, and then pass them off as fact. This is known as Junk Science. It's sloppy and shoddy pseudo-science performed for a predetermined goal. The lifeblood of "human-induced Climate Change" and most conspiracy theories, especially the 911 theories, is that of Junk Science. "I believe the government orchestrated 911, therefor I'm gonna prove it, no matter what, dammit!"

All of the wild hair allegations about 911 use Junk Science to support it, and they have all been factually and scientifically refuted by real, actual science. And that's where the problem lies with the Kool Aid drinkers (and you know who you are) who want so badly to believe the government orchestrated a conspiracy, and are now blackmailing and paying of tens of thousands (and counting) of people to keep it quiet, that they will embrace the sloppy Junk Science and dismiss the real, actual science as being part of the conspiracy. These are people who are easily duped and manipulated, because they will dismiss the truth in favor of a belief.

so which facts are true and which facts are false . who is right who is wrong . who used the junk sscience .

so now the koolaid drinkers are the ones that believe in the conspiracy theories. i am so glad you can change thing around to make your self feel better in what you are told to believe in .

have governments killed their own people have people killed others to get their way ,to move ahead, to keep them quiet , if they didnt believe in what the were made to believe .

and no form of government as never killed mass of people . hitler was the nicest person ever is wha you are saying and the houlacost is just made up. so people would hate Hitler and the german people .

why is it other people never do anything wrong but they can remember ever time somebody else did something wrong .

IT WOULD BE NICE IF SOMEBODY WOULD ANSWER MY QUESTIONS THAT I ASK .

ok 50,000 people worked in the towers . plane hit at 70th floor ?? that leaves 40 floors above . 50,000 divide 110 is what 454 people to a floor . now how many people was on those 40 floors 18,181 people and only 3,000 were killed that day . what happened to the other 15,000 people and this is not counting the people on the floors under the 70th that could not got out or the by standers on the side walks or the 200,000 that vist the towers everyday . SO HOW MANY SHOULD OF DIED THAT DAY ?? none . by the numbers how many should of been killed .

OH yes there where 2 buildings so that should be 220 floors and that would make it only 227 people to a floor . so that would be 2 planes hit both builds at the 70th floor that would be 40 floors above in each building . so on those 80 floors how many people would there be 18,181 people

 

[Ragman]

and no form of government as never killed mass of people . hitler was the nicest person ever is wha you are saying and the houlacost is just made up. so people would hate Hitler and the german people .

Please, Please, Please stop this nonsense bringing up Hitler and the holocaust whenever somebody has an issue with our govenment.

Hitler was evil, the nazi's were and are evil.

We may all have issues with the policies of the opposing party, but to compare them with Hitler and nazi's is irresponsable and just wrong!.

 

[cheri1122]

That's your truth. Mine says Protagoras won.

Protagoras lost. Socrates used his [Protagoras] own argument to prove Protagoras wrong in the belief that truth is subjective, or different for different people. Socrates was often a smartaZZ like that.

And: Just because Mr Popogopolus looks like Mr Green, and owns the gun, does not make Mrs Smith's testimony wrong.
I wanted to say that before Turtle pointed it out, because it seemed everyone was accepting the implication as fact.
Now, back to the whole 911 subject, because I'm learning all kinds of new stuff!

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Protagoras lost. Socrates used his [Protagoras] own argument to prove Protagoras wrong in the belief that truth is subjective, or different for different people. Socrates was often a smartaZZ like that.

That's my point. Socrates used Protagoras's argument to win. Socrates himself had to admit truth was relevant, in order for Protagoras to say Socrates was right... therefore, making Protagoras correct in the argument.

 

[paullud]

if a plane could take down a 110 story building why did the same type of plane only do the damage it did to the Pentagon. from what you are saying half of the Pentagon should of been damaged and taken clear to the ground . if you look at the Pentagon pictures you will see much more is left standing .

You are comparing a narrow skyscraper to a building that is less than 80 feet tall and each wall is 921 long, a 767 has a wingspan of 156 feet so no it would not destroy half of the Pentagon. The plane wingspan doesn't even equal 20% of one wall, but I know the truthers like to throw around the idea that there just wasn't enough damage done so hopefully that will clear up that for you.

THEY HAVE NOT RELEASED ALL OF THE VIDEOS .AND EVEN SAY THEY WONT "".the FBI confiscated a hotel security camera video that showed the attack on the Pentagon. It's not known if that tape is being released.""

I am not sure how much clearer I can make this for you but they did release the hotel security camera video. Remember I used the same statement to show you aren't looking into things yourself, you can watch the video on CNN's site or even YouTube.

ok then why was building 7 the only one to fall hours later and it fell straight down too . did it get hit on all sides . or just 1 or 2 sides . COMMON SENSE .

It got hit on the south wall mostly but a section on the west wall was also damaged. The damage was bad on the south wall it went about a third of the way into the building.

have you every seen a building be taken down .

Yes I watched a few get taken down by Muslim terrorists on 9/11/01.

and who told you it was a French film crew .did you ask them while you were there that day . maybe the police department was out to practice that day too . training for terrorists attacks .

It was a French film crew that released a video they shot, so I used common sense and reasoning to be able come to the conclusion that they were French.

all of the years the red sox never won the world series and that year they did .

So was it Babe Ruth and the Curse of the Bambino?

i ask you which side is telling the truth the independent ones that got paid by the government . i think that the TRUE independent research are the ones that you don't believe . PLEASE tell me what independent means

Just because you believe someone that manipulates facts does not mean they are independent. There have been many groups that have looked into the conspiracy theory including Popular Mechanics, what did they have to gain? Please read this article, it goes through the myths and lies truthers use. 9/11 Conspiracy Theories - Debunking the Myths - World Trade Center - Pentagon - Flight 93 - Popular Mechanics

how many phone calls were made ?? only need one person to make death certificates,
seating chart
Fred , Joe
jack , bill
sally, Jill
do you know what all of the plane numbers are are .even the flight numbers

Yes only person is needed to make death certificates, you sure got me there. So your evolving theory is that the government found almost 3000 people that hated their lives and families and talked them all into going on a permanent vacation.

air traffic control was sleeping at that time .

Actually they had called in to report the hijackings.

a USA film crew goes to the middle east to make a film . do i need to go more in detail or do you think you could think what the film was about .

I don't know, was the film about sand?

please tell me your evidence. how many buildings have you demolished. how many planes have you been on ,flew ,etc. how many hours have you said and watched ALL the videos from every camera from the areas.

I never demolished a building with explosives, I have been on 3 planes, I forgot to set a stop watch to see how long I spent watching videos or researching.

you say about watching a cartoon and you believe what the cartoon says . so all the spy, war etc. movies there is no truth in them only in the south park CARTOON . i wonder what the planes looked like in the cartoon . probly better in the real life videos .

I'm not sure why you are talking about truth in spy and war movies, very odd. They did not show the terrorist attacks in the cartoon, it was about them investigating who was responsible, but since you have continued to show no intent to look at things from any other point of view or any interest in the truth I doubt you would look at the link I included or watch a show that might make you think.

 

[BillChaffey]

It would appear that some people around here need a lot more freight.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

It would appear that some people around here need a lot more freight.

I think we all do!

 

[paullud]

IT WOULD BE NICE IF SOMEBODY WOULD ANSWER MY QUESTIONS THAT I ASK .

They have been answered numerous times but you continue to change what your theory seems to be, plus you toss in some really odd and false statements.

k 50,000 people worked in the towers . plane hit at 70th floor ?? that leaves 40 floors above . 50,000 divide 110 is what 454 people to a floor . now how many people was on those 40 floors 18,181 people and only 3,000 were killed that day . what happened to the other 15,000 people and this is not counting the people on the floors under the 70th that could not got out or the by standers on the side walks or the 200,000 that vist the towers everyday . SO HOW MANY SHOULD OF DIED THAT DAY ?? none . by the numbers how many should of been killed .

OH yes there where 2 buildings so that should be 220 floors and that would make it only 227 people to a floor . so that would be 2 planes hit both builds at the 70th floor that would be 40 floors above in each building . so on those 80 floors how many people would there be 18,181 people

Did you just make up that the planes hit at the 70th floor or did one of the truther sites give you that completely incorrect information? Either way it proves you just make up what you don't know or just believe what you are told by people with an agenda. The lower plane which was the second plane hit between the 77th and 85th floors and the first hit at the top of the building in the upper 90's. Now you also need to remember there were observation floors and radio transmission and maintenance floors so it was not even full at the top.

 

[paullud]

I think we all do!

I do, van should be ready tomorrow though.

 

[cheri1122]

I do, van should be ready tomorrow though.

Darn - it was nice to see someone else attempting to talk sense to someone who just doesn't want to see it.
Sorry, I know it gets frustrating, lol, but it is fun to read.

 

[chefdennis]

Wow..this was enlightening...on several levels....

Through all of this i remember 2 statements that Ronald Reagan made:

1) I am from the government and I am here to help you....

2) Government is not the solution, government is the problem...

Do I believe our government is capable of turning on us the people? You bet, barry is doing now.. (in my opinion he is deliberately trying to divide the country based on class and also race for his own gain) do I believe the conspiracy stuff and the truther stuff that 9-11 was done by our government? Nope...but i do believe they are capable...