At least she's not on the jury...

[davekc]

And in this case, both sides look questionable. Not sure if the prosecution has a "smoking gun" but they need something because I am not seeing enough proof for a murder conviction. And if by the chance there is one, you can bet it will be appealed. Just my opinion of course.
As for personal assaults, just not needed on a thread like this. Cheri stated her opinion which is good. Never hurts to see how others may view something whether you agree or not.

 

[cheri1122]

Everything boils down to credibility, and the tipping point for me [among a flood of evidence] was the statement Zimmerman made right afterwards. Being a student of criminal justice [literally: that's what he was attending classes for at the time], Z knows better than most that the crucial element for a self defense claim, even with Florida's less restrictive Stand Your Ground laws, is being in fear of death or serious bodily injury.
His original statement says Martin covered Zimmerman's nose & mouth, which led Z to fear for his life, which is when & why he grabbed the gun and shot Martin.
That didn't happen. Zimmerman lied. Flat out, no doubt about it.
Is there any plausible reason for that? Because I can't think of one. His lying about the $200,000 [and a second passport that he didn't mention when ordered to hand over his passport before being granted bail] shows his lack of character very clearly.

 

[cheri1122]

A question for the handgun experts here: could the gun Zimmerman fired have caused his broken nose from the recoil?
Someone [on another forum] noticed the photo of Z's bloody nose has 2 small abrasions [like dots] on the tip of his nose, which "look like they were made by the sight when the gun recoiled".
Does that sound plausible, given that Z was lying on his back, with Martin straddling him - he would have been holding the gun pretty close to his own face when he pulled the trigger, right?
It doesn't make any difference, really, I was just wondering if it's possible.

 

[cheri1122]

Terrible, terrible, terrible. To ignore people who don't at all fit a particular demographic and focus on people who fit. Why, an idea like that would possibly identify more people who need to be identified and perhaps allow the TSA to stop groping 86 year old wheelchair bound women and 6 year old girls.

Sarcasm is a poor substitute for discourse.
Actually, I'm in favor of profiling, as far as suspicion goes. As you say, certain people fit certain demographics, and that's reality. Of course, the minute we excuse some people from suspicion, the bad guys look for ways to use that against us, so it only works up to a point.

 

[cheri1122]

And then of course you have this little problem. A video that Martin took with his phone showing his friends beating up and stealing a homeless man's bike. Don't know if it will be used in court but this kid is hardly a "good boy". Certainly didn't go out of his way to stop the theft and assault. Wonder why that is? His online antics don't help him either.
Maybe Cheri will give pause for thought when standing back and looking at the whole picture.
On eve of Zimmerman trial in Trayvon Martin killing, new video becomes public - U.S. News

Maybe Dave will reread the article, esp the part that says the video was "mischaracterized" [it wasn't Martin's friends] and the defense apologized for claiming it was.
I can't think of one teenager I know who wouldn't videotape a fight if they happened upon it - it's not nice, but they're freakin teenagers, lol.

 

[davekc]

Maybe Dave will reread the article, esp the part that says the video was "mischaracterized" [it wasn't Martin's friends] and the defense apologized for claiming it was.
I can't think of one teenager I know who wouldn't videotape a fight if they happened upon it - it's not nice, but they're freakin teenagers, lol.

I'm not convinced that they weren't his friends. Why was he there filming it in the first place? May never be known but him whopping it up in the backgorund gives a moment of pause as to whether that is him? Credibility in my opinion with both of them is the biggest problem.
Unfortunately, poor credibility doesn't equate to a murder conviction.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

I'm not convinced that they weren't his friends. Why was he there filming it in the first place? May never be known but him whopping it up in the backgorund gives a moment of pause as to whether that is him? Credibility in my opinion with both of them is the biggest problem.
Unfortunately, poor credibility doesn't equate to a murder conviction.

Poor credibility on Trayvon's part = reasonable doubt, IMO.

 

[cheri1122]

I'm not convinced that they weren't his friends.

You really think his attorney Mark O'Mara would apologize if those were Martin's friends?

Why was he there filming it in the first place?

I don't know where 'there' is, but I do know that teenagers love to videotape fights - whenever, wherever, whomever [bonus points for females, lol]. They're quite popular on YouTube, and who doesn't want to go 'viral' with a vid?

May never be known but him whopping it up in the backgorund gives a moment of pause as to whether that is him? Credibility in my opinion with both of them is the biggest problem.
Unfortunately, poor credibility doesn't equate to a murder conviction.

Except when everything hinges upon the credibility of the last man standing, cause his version is all they've got.
Martin's credibility isn't an issue, because he didn't get to tell his side, and can't explain things the defense throws out there.

 

[davekc]

Except when everything hinges upon the credibility of the last man standing, cause his version is all they've got.
Martin's credibility isn't an issue, because he didn't get to tell his side, and can't explain things the defense throws out there.

And there in lies the problem. You can't convict someone based on credibility. Conviction of murder can only be done on the facts. So far in this case.....there isn't any.

 

[LDB]

Oh, credibility or the lack thereof doesn't end upon death. Obama will have zero credibility for centuries to come after his death.

 

[paullud]

A question for the handgun experts here: could the gun Zimmerman fired have caused his broken nose from the recoil?
Someone [on another forum] noticed the photo of Z's bloody nose has 2 small abrasions [like dots] on the tip of his nose, which "look like they were made by the sight when the gun recoiled".
Does that sound plausible, given that Z was lying on his back, with Martin straddling him - he would have been holding the gun pretty close to his own face when he pulled the trigger, right?
It doesn't make any difference, really, I was just wondering if it's possible.

No it doesn't sound plausible at all, we are talking about a 9mm not a .357. The fact that you are getting your views and information from a website that has people manufacturing stories to prove his guilt speaks volumes though.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using EO Forums mobile app

 

[Turtle]

Oh, credibility or the lack thereof doesn't end upon death. Obama will have zero credibility for centuries to come after his death.

Obama? Seriously?

 

[RLENT]

Obama? Seriously?

Broken record/one-trick-pony ...

 

[cheri1122]

No it doesn't sound plausible at all, we are talking about a 9mm not a .357. The fact that you are getting your views and information from a website that has people manufacturing stories to prove his guilt speaks volumes though.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using EO Forums mobile app

I get information from the documents, photos, interviews & transcripts, not from what people say on websites. You know: facts.
If you'll reread what I wrote, it says the tiny dots on Zimmerman's nose "looked like" - not that they actually were. And further, I said it wouldn't make any difference either way, cause it still doesn't prove who actually initiated the final fight.
It was just something that I wondered about.

 

[LDB]

Is it possible? Absolutely. Is it probable? Not very likely.

 

[cheri1122]

That's what I thought: possible, because from the position Zimmerman was in, the gun would have been pretty close to his own face. I just didn't know whether a 9mm Tec would have that much recoil. The OP said it does, because it's a cheap gun. I've learned to handle & shoot handguns, but don't know one from another, really.
A question that bothers me: if Martin punched Zimmerman hard enough to break his nose, why was Martin's hand not showing any evidence of swelling? Even if there were only a few minutes between the punch & his death, swelling would have begun, but the medical examiner did not see any sign of it.
Note to Xiggi: per the police report, the injuries sustained by Zimmerman were treated at the scene, and the EMTs logged exactly 7 minutes total for it.
Just the facts.

 

[cheri1122]

I believe the above could be (accurately) described as "hallucinatory projection" ...

Zactly. But when he says "like Cheri used to do", that's just wishful thinking.

 

[RLENT]

Zactly. But when he says "like Cheri used to do", that's just wishful thinking.

Well, it wouldn't be the first time ...

 

[LDB]

Well, first, it's the ammo that creates recoil not the gun. The same ammo will create the same recoil regardless of what gun it's fired in. The only factor the gun adds is weight. The heavier the gun the less the recoil will affect it. Cheap guns are usually heavier guns so recoil would usually be lower. Yes, it's possible but highly unlikely.

 

[Brisco]

The fact that you are getting your views and information from a website that has people manufacturing stories to prove his guilt speaks volumes though.

.......and then pawning them off, or basically shoving it all down our throats, as her own unbiased opinions, is precisely what I meant by this thread being her "Show".

Not even worth discussing..........does make great comical entertainment though............Kinda in the same realm as Nancy Grace does.

As well at the "Truthers" do when it comes to all the little opinionated based so called intricate detailed Facts when it comes to 9-11.

(little dots on Nose.............Sheeeeez....)