Why Is There No Outrage About This Police Shooting?

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Of course it's not a "thing" - it's a concept. The dots between "Lie by omission" and "factually inaccurate by omission" are pretty easy to connect - at least for most people. But if you and your klatch of self-declared intelligentsia want to nitpick the semantics, knock yourselves out.
The problem is, even as a concept, it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. I've given several examples of factually accurate statements which remain factually accurate no matter how many other facts are omitted or included.

In many instances it's called FRAUD, as previously mentioned. Try selling a truck to somebody, neglecting to mention that a new odometer has been installed showing half the actual mileage on the vehicle.
Just like the Sprinter example I used, now you're getting into a "lie by omission," when an important fact is omitted intentionally to deceive, which is a thing.

All this goes back to your assertion that the author of the article "completely" misrepresented the facts of the Ferguson case, which is not only incorrect, but "completely" ironic because in the the same sentence, you "completely" misrepresented his conclusions when you added "evil" in front of "American police and grand juries." Yours was not a lie by omission, it was a straight-up fabrication intended to mislead, to demonize the author, simply because you don't like the article or the conclusions. In the next post, post #41, I noted that everything he stated that paragraph is factually accurate, because it is. It just isn't as "factually all-encompassing" as you'd like it to be, and that's when you invented the "factually inaccurate by omission" gem. You want to equate that paragraph to a lie by omission, but it isn't even that, because the paragraph doesn't tell a lie, it merely doesn't tell the story you want told. The paragraph isn't central to the article, and the all-important facts you think were left out are even less important to the article. But we've already been over this. You think the author should have written a different article on a different subject. We all get that.

Sorry, but there's no legitimate defense to the basic premise of this article, which is summarized in this excerpt (emphasis mine):
"...countless thousands of others at the hands of American law enforcement..."
In the context you have created in your mind, you are probably correct, the premise cannot be defended. However, in the context of the time frame of the article, which is the context of the entire history of America, the premise is spot on. And you're also right in that no, he doesn't offer up statistics to support his claim of "countless thousands" of instances of racial injustice at the hands of law enforcement. He doesn't have to, since the historical record is quite clear on that issue. You want to pigeonhole this into term of today, or the recent past (because you kinda need to in order to make your case), but it goes back hundreds of years. No, he didn't mention the Civil Rights Act of 1964, but that doesn't mean he ignored it. He didn't need to mention it, because it's all a part of the same context. You do realize, don't you. that one of the primary motivators for the Civil Rights Act of 1964 being enacted was because of the Jim Crow laws, and the fact that law enforcement (primarily, but not exclusively in the South) was routinely discriminating and brutalizing blacks, including killing them, looking the other way when others killed them, and were involved in many blacks just up and disappearing, permanently. A mere 1000 is the ultra-conservative number. Multiple thousands with an S is far more accurate phrasing.


The author can't support this gratuitous assertion because he's a liberal hack, obviously ignorant of law enforcement realities in this country.
I just wanted to quote that because it's so funny.
Hopefully this guy is a better food critic than social commentator, because he obviously doesn't know his azz from asparagus when it comes to the American legal system.
Quoted this one for the same reason. :D
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Ahh ... no ...

Stop reinventing the meaning of words to suit your ideology.
...

Your perception of "many blacks" is no doubt modified by where you are looking from (the viewpoint of a white person)
Exactly. When I read that statement, my very first thought was, "Kinda playin' fast and loose with the word "many" aren't ya, Mutt?"

Even if he'd have just inserted the word "token" between "many" and "blacks" it would have been eminently more forthright and honorable. Not to mention accurate.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Then the graphic is accurate ... at least to the extent that it depicts people who do work for Fox News ...


Where specifically is the claim that Faux News is ALL WHITE made in the accompanying captioning ?

It isn't ...

You see, that's something YOU added ... you inferred it.

Anyone who has a minimal passing familiarity with the various major personalities on Faux knows that the graphic isn't even a complete representation of all on-air personalities, let alone everyone who works there ...


Ahh ... no ...

Stop reinventing the meaning of words to suit your ideology.

I just had a right-wing idiot on another forum redefine "many" to mean five (5) this morning ... and I have no patience or tolerance for such stupidity.

I understand that's what you want to tell yourself, as it's self-affirming ... but, as a relative matter, it's simply not accurate, as the statistics cited by Turtle demonstrate.

Your perception of "many blacks" is no doubt modified by where you are looking from (the viewpoint of a white person)

SMH at the utter ignorance.
MANY definition --numerous
Partial list of blacks who appeared on Fox News and have opined about race.
Marcus Lamont Hill, Charles Payne,Juan Williams,Chantita Jackson,Zerlina Maxwell, Kevin Jackson.Jehmu Greene, Harris Faulkner,Rev. Eugene Rivers,Allen West,Cornel West,Herman Cain,Stacey Dash,Angela McGlowan, Michael Myers,Darlene Borelli,Benjamin Carson,Donna Edwards, Eleanor Holmes Norton, Patricia Bynes,Russell Simmons,Milwaukee Sheriff Clarke,Richard Fowler,Jasmyne Cannick,Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, Leo Terell,Hilary Shelton, David Webb,
Tavis Smiley, Benjamin Jealous, Mike Riley.
If you want to say the above list ISN'T MANY, then continue on bro. Your credibility is already in the tank and you're swimming near the bottom.
Lol. Hahahaha.
 
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muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Exactly. When I read that statement, my very first thought was, "Kinda playin' fast and loose with the word "many" aren't ya, Mutt?"

Even if he'd have just inserted the word "token" between "many" and "blacks" it would have been eminently more forthright and honorable. Not to mention accurate.

Maybe you should think deeper than go by your very first thought.
See the examples in the previous post. With a partial list of over 30 that have appeared on Fox News and have opined about race, the term 'token' wouldn't be forthright and honorable because it wouldn't be accurate.

Maybe a more honorable thing for you to do is just admit you are wrong and limp on down the road.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Wow ... a WHOLE 30 plus ... over the last 18 years, since Faux News' inception ?

Thems some BIG numbers ...

Just out of curiosity, and to provide some frame of reference and context, just exactly how many non-blacks have appeared on the Faux News channel opining on race ?

And what about the relative air time between the two different groups ?

ROTFLMAO ...

Clown on bro' ...
 
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muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Wow ... a WHOLE 30 plus ... over the last 18 years, since Faux News' inception ?

Thems some BIG numbers ...

Just out of curiosity, and to provide some frame of reference and context, just exactly how many non-blacks have appeared on the Faux News channel opining on race ?

And what about the relative air time between the two different groups ?

ROTFLMAO ...

Clown on bro' ...
18 yrs? Nope. More like within the last year for most if not all of them.
Good to know you're redefining your term for MANY.
Maybe you should go argue on the other site with the conservative and say that over 30 isn't many. I'm sure he'll get a huge chuckle as well. Hehe. I do .
There are many blacks who appear on Fox News that opine about race . Whether there is a large amount that is white is not my argument. My argument was 1 that your photo falsely depicted Fox News as All WHITE. and implied from the caption that they had no business discussing race because as the photo & caption falsely implies they have all whites and zero blacks on Fox News. Why would you now want a list of non blacks opining about race when you clearly aren't concerned about context, as evident by your lie by ommision photo? I agree that there is plenty of non blacks opining about race, but there is also MANY BLACKS that have appeared on Fox News and opined about race.
You want out of the tank yet ,Lentil?
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
SMH at the utter ignorance.
MANY definition --numerous
Partial list of blacks who appeared on Fox News and have opined about race.
Marcus Lamont Hill, Charles Payne,Juan Williams,Chantita Jackson,Zerlina Maxwell, Kevin Jackson.Jehmu Greene, Harris Faulkner,Rev. Eugene Rivers,Allen West,Cornel West,Herman Cain,Stacey Dash,Angela McGlowan, Michael Myers,Darlene Borelli,Benjamin Carson,Donna Edwards, Eleanor Holmes Norton, Patricia Bynes,Russell Simmons,Milwaukee Sheriff Clarke,Richard Fowler,Jasmyne Cannick,Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, Leo Terell,Hilary Shelton, David West,
Tavis Smiley, Benjamin Jealous, Mike Riley.
If you want to say the above list ISN'T MANY, then continue on bro. Your credibility is already in the tank and you're swimming near the bottom.
Lol. Hahahaha.
Other Fox News minority on-air personalities:

Alicia Acuna
Dr. Manny Alvarez
Julie Banderas
Maria Baritomo
Linda Chavez
Harris Faulkner
Jehmu Greene
Santita Jackson
Deroy Murdock
Arthel Neville
Uma Pemmaraju
Dr. Walid Phares

On Air Personalities | Fox News
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Maybe you should think deeper than go by your very first thought.
See the examples in the previous post. With a partial list of over 30 that have appeared on Fox News and have opined about race, the term 'token' wouldn't be forthright and honorable because it wouldn't be accurate.

Maybe a more honorable thing for you to do is just admit you are wrong and limp on down the road.
Over 30. Wow. Yeah, that's a lot, if you compare it with... 30.

However, if you compare it with the number of whites who have appeared on Fox News, then the term 'token' is a generous one. The "many" becomes the equivalent of an eyedropper drop in Lake Erie. Fox News is overwhelmingly white (much like Santa Clause, it just is), and to claim otherwise is either gross ignorance (if you hardly ever watch Fox News and thus really don't know), or gross stupidity (if you regularly watch Fox News and still don't know).
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Why don't you master debaters take this circle jerk private, where it belongs?
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The misrepresentations and outright falsehoods throughout the article which you so thoughtfully highlighted in brown are simply conclusions, and realities that you disagree with...
Wrong; they are the author's opinions - without basis in fact - and don't represent current American society. The article has to be read and interpreted as it is written - in the present tense.
The acquittals of their killers are not mistakes. There is no virtuous innermost America, sullied or besmirched or shaded by these murders. This is America. It is not broken. It is doing what it does. America is a serial brutalizer of black and brown people. Brutalizing them is what it does.
Since America isn't the utopia the author wants it to be he engages in the usual liberal self-loathing, America-hating white guilt. But claiming that America is a "brutalizer of black and brown people" is a flat-out lie, and his attempt to equate today's society with that of the early 20th century is preposterous.

If you want to buy his snake oil, fine; if you want to continue with the petty personal cheap shots (which you seem to be so proud of) to defend the indefensible that's fine too. Come to think of it, I don't see any other mods doing that (since ad hominem attacks are supposed to be verboten); I also haven't seen any of them having edited the posts of those with whom they're engaged in debate. But I guess special people allow themselves special privileges.:rolleyes:
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Wrong; they are the author's opinions - without basis in fact - and don't represent current American society. The article has to be read and interpreted as it is written - in the present tense.
That's simply your opinion. But the article does, nevertheless, reference the past to how the present day has evolved from it.

Since America isn't the utopia the author wants it to be he engages in the usual liberal self-loathing, America-hating white guilt. But claiming that America is a "brutalizer of black and brown people" is a flat-out lie, and his attempt to equate today's society with that of the early 20th century is preposterous.
Again, that's your opinion. I do think it's very interesting that you believe the author's version of utopia is "white cops don't kill unarmed black people" and you find that version of utopia so unsettling and absurd.

If you want to buy his snake oil, fine; if you want to continue with the petty personal cheap shots (which you seem to be so proud of) to defend the indefensible that's fine too. Come to think of it, I don't see any other mods doing that (since ad hominem attacks are supposed to be verboten); I also haven't seen any of them having edited the posts of those with whom they're engaged in debate. But I guess special people allow themselves special privileges.:rolleyes:
Incorrect accusations of an ad hominem attack is one of most widely used and popular logical fallacies on the Internet, because people don't understand what an ad hominem attack is. Ironically, the only ad hominem attack here is the one in the quoted paragraph above. An ad hominem attack is when someone sets aside or ignores the issues and attacks the person directly in order to weaken their argument or position without having addressed the actual issue of debate, essentially, attacking the person making an argument rather than attacking the argument itself. It's where a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the person presenting the claim or argument. Merely referencing or addressing the person who is making the claim or argument is not as ad hominem. I haven't done that. My comments have all been within the context of your arguments. The comments implying that I have edited your or anyone else's posts in a debate because I disagree with what they (or you) are saying, or that I afford myself special privileges as a moderator to do so is not only false, but an ad hominem.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
How did the subject of the Tamir Rice shooting evolve into another squabble about Fox News?
Post #87, Muttly referenced Fox News.

Post #88, RLENT made a joke about Fox News.

Post #89, Muttly crapped his pants while circling the wagons to both defend his 'Precious' and attack anyone who would dare say his 'Precious' is not pretty and shiny.

smiley-5.gif
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
How did the subject of the Tamir Rice shooting evolve into another squabble about Fox News?
I posted a Newsmax article about comments Rudy Guiliani made on Fox News about police. Lentil, instead of replying about the content of the article, posted a photo about Fox News. I replied back that the photo and caption was an example of a lie by omission. Apparently, while replying I must have inadvertently brought out the dog whistle to the Fox News haters Lentil and Turtlehead.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Post #87, Muttly referenced Fox News.

Post #88, RLENT made a joke about Fox News.

Post #89, Muttly crapped his pants while circling the wagons to both defend his 'Precious' and attack anyone who would dare say his 'Precious' is not pretty and shiny.

smiley-5.gif
Nailed it ... ;)

 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Over 30. Wow. Yeah, that's a lot, if you compare it with... 30.
In light of these new facts Barf has brought to light I really think a new slogan is in order:

Faux News: totally awash with "people of color" ...

However, if you compare it with the number of whites who have appeared on Fox News, then the term 'token' is a generous one. The "many" becomes the equivalent of an eyedropper drop in Lake Erie. Fox News is overwhelmingly white (much like Santa Clause, it just is), and to claim otherwise is either gross ignorance (if you hardly ever watch Fox News and thus really don't know), or gross stupidity (if you regularly watch Fox News and still don't know).
Alex, I think in this case I'll take gross stupidity for $200 ...

Arf ...
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Great stuff Barf ... you be sure to keep 'em comin' ... lol ...

View attachment 10111


Marcus Lamont Hill, Charles Payne,Juan Williams,Chantita Jackson,Zerlina Maxwell, Kevin Jackson.Jehmu Greene, Harris Faulkner,Rev. Eugene Rivers,Allen West,Cornel West,Herman Cain,Stacey Dash,Angela McGlowan, Michael Myers,Darlene Borelli,Benjamin Carson,Donna Edwards, Eleanor Holmes Norton, Patricia Bynes,Russell Simmons,Milwaukee Sheriff Clarke,Richard Fowler,Jasmyne Cannick,Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, Leo Terell,Hilary Shelton, David Webb,
Tavis Smiley, Benjamin Jealous, Mike Riley.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Marcus Lamont Hill, Charles Payne,Juan Williams,Chantita Jackson,Zerlina Maxwell, Kevin Jackson.Jehmu Greene, Harris Faulkner,Rev. Eugene Rivers,Allen West,Cornel West,Herman Cain,Stacey Dash,Angela McGlowan, Michael Myers,Darlene Borelli,Benjamin Carson,Donna Edwards, Eleanor Holmes Norton, Patricia Bynes,Russell Simmons,Milwaukee Sheriff Clarke,Richard Fowler,Jasmyne Cannick,Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, Leo Terell,Hilary Shelton, David Webb,
Tavis Smiley, Benjamin Jealous, Mike Riley.
Nice picture. Of course it and the statement with it is a load of chicken manure since it's the product of a liar that misrepresents the true makeup of Fox News' on-air personalities by OMITTING every single minority and almost every male they currently employ in those positions. As you stated, it's the visual representation of a "lie of omission" and it's also at least three years old considering Glenn Beck left Fox in 2011. Jokes are funny when they're true. Of course those who don't know the difference will laugh at most anything.

In case anyone is interested in some factual information about minorities in news networks, the following study done in 2013 by RTDNA & Hofstra University offers some recent stats. It doesn't mention Fox News or any other cable networks in particular, but does offer some interesting stats about the networks in general, especially in the spreadsheets provided (bold emphasis mine)
As far as minorities are concerned, the bigger picture remains unchanged. In the last 23 years, the minority population in the U.S. has risen 10.7 points; but the minority workforce in TV news is up 3.6, and the minority workforce in radio is up 0.1...

Fox affiliates, at 25.1%, had a higher percentage of minorities than the other affiliates. That's been pretty consistent over the last few years. The other network affiliates were all pretty similar -- which represents a meaningful increase at NBC affiliates, which had tended to trail the others. This year, NBC stations were slightly ahead. Other commercial stations, at 62.6%, were at the top (as always). At 17%, non-commercial stations are way up from a year ago and are now on a par with ABC, CBS and NBC affiliates.

As always, stations in the West and South were the most diverse; stations in the Northeast and Midwest had minority percentages under half the South and West.

RTDNA : Little change for women, minorities in TV/radio


Yes, I know this has nothing to do with the original subject matter - just going with the flow
 
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