To Davekc
- Thread starter MrGautama
- Start date
DougTravels
Not a Member
LRE... I agree MrG seems familiar. I haven't been able to pin him down yet, but I'm working on it.
MrGautama
Not a Member
"So if we can't defeat him in argument let's engage in some good ol' character assasination"
So typical.
MrGautama
Not a Member
Pretty Impressive letzrock, for how long have you been collecting evidence on this?
DougTravels
Not a Member
His posts do look turtleske, but his opinions contrast everyone you mentioned.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Just random thoughts.......
Have you first made the effort to bring other countries to task who are more destructive to the ecosystem before you tried to change ours?
Complain and turning over the rights of one group to save another, is that progress?
Would you rather turn your fellow citizens into a plain number in a bureaucracy?
Have you decided to live by a higher standard which does not prevent others from pursuing improvements through means other than government involvement?
What have you done to relieve the suffering of others?
Can you put the example of the “most successful and advanced societies” in the context to their culture and history before trying to justify the destruction of ours to reach their level of "advancement"?
It begs another question, what do you define as successful and advanced?
Could the definition be a society where not everyone is equal because of the color of your skin or ethnic background?
Or could the definition be something along the lines of forced acceptance and sacrificing security for appeasement?
See Mr. Buddha, I too want to see end to hunger, diseases and other maladies that affect others in other lands. I want to see our planet change for the better but I can’t make a living in a weak country with a bunch of apologetic ignorant people under weak leadership and change the world. It takes strength, money and time to solve problems and governments don’t really solve any of these problems. It takes people who are free not to worry about the debt of their country so they can work to make money that actually helps others in other lands through charity and purchasing products they make.
You do understand that even though Wal-Mart is an evil company, it actually pulls a lot of people out of poverty in other countries because they are working. It is not perfect but what would you rather have? Something that prevents them from achieving any progress to get out of poverty through work or just handing them money?
When I started my charity work, I volunteered to be a lumper for a group of pilots who took medical supplies to Africa. We were “sponsored” by Pfizer, Merck, Johnson & Johnson and Baxter, they supplied us with the supplies and the money for fuel. I loaded four planes in an eight hour span, flying to different places to load different planes with the other lumpers. Then I got into the c*ckpit with the pilot (and most of the time a co-pilot) and flew overseas to unload the plane in conditions that no one could really understand. I made a lot of trips; saw a lot of country and more suffering than I ever wanted to see.
By the way, these were not rejected medical supplies; they were not end of life stuff either but fresh supplies from medicine to materials, even teddy bears and blankets we got from Toys ‘r us.
So the reason that these companies gave this stuff away was not because it was a tax write-off, but because it was the right thing to do. We were not a charity; we did it under a company name and with no help from the government. These companies made sure that the supplies were sent to the right place because of the same thing I feel and Mr. Buddha wants to see – the end of suffering.
Now the reason that these companies could do all of this is simply word - Capitalism. They are allowed to make a profit and actually spread some of it around. They will not openly admit to this, it is not a secret either but once government gets involve, it ends and those who would get help through the charity of the company will suffer. Like Pfizer, they claim to make so much profit in their annual reports but they can’t claim for example they are giving computers away to needy charities (they actually buying the computers they leased to give away) or they hand out their products to places like clinics in South Africa by the ton.
So what have you actually done to relieve the suffering of others?
Have you first made the effort to bring other countries to task who are more destructive to the ecosystem before you tried to change ours?
Complain and turning over the rights of one group to save another, is that progress?
Would you rather turn your fellow citizens into a plain number in a bureaucracy?
Have you decided to live by a higher standard which does not prevent others from pursuing improvements through means other than government involvement?
What have you done to relieve the suffering of others?
So unfettered socialism is not slavery in a faux philanthropic form?
Can you put the example of the “most successful and advanced societies” in the context to their culture and history before trying to justify the destruction of ours to reach their level of "advancement"?
It begs another question, what do you define as successful and advanced?
Could the definition be a society where not everyone is equal because of the color of your skin or ethnic background?
Or could the definition be something along the lines of forced acceptance and sacrificing security for appeasement?
See Mr. Buddha, I too want to see end to hunger, diseases and other maladies that affect others in other lands. I want to see our planet change for the better but I can’t make a living in a weak country with a bunch of apologetic ignorant people under weak leadership and change the world. It takes strength, money and time to solve problems and governments don’t really solve any of these problems. It takes people who are free not to worry about the debt of their country so they can work to make money that actually helps others in other lands through charity and purchasing products they make.
You do understand that even though Wal-Mart is an evil company, it actually pulls a lot of people out of poverty in other countries because they are working. It is not perfect but what would you rather have? Something that prevents them from achieving any progress to get out of poverty through work or just handing them money?
When I started my charity work, I volunteered to be a lumper for a group of pilots who took medical supplies to Africa. We were “sponsored” by Pfizer, Merck, Johnson & Johnson and Baxter, they supplied us with the supplies and the money for fuel. I loaded four planes in an eight hour span, flying to different places to load different planes with the other lumpers. Then I got into the c*ckpit with the pilot (and most of the time a co-pilot) and flew overseas to unload the plane in conditions that no one could really understand. I made a lot of trips; saw a lot of country and more suffering than I ever wanted to see.
By the way, these were not rejected medical supplies; they were not end of life stuff either but fresh supplies from medicine to materials, even teddy bears and blankets we got from Toys ‘r us.
So the reason that these companies gave this stuff away was not because it was a tax write-off, but because it was the right thing to do. We were not a charity; we did it under a company name and with no help from the government. These companies made sure that the supplies were sent to the right place because of the same thing I feel and Mr. Buddha wants to see – the end of suffering.
Now the reason that these companies could do all of this is simply word - Capitalism. They are allowed to make a profit and actually spread some of it around. They will not openly admit to this, it is not a secret either but once government gets involve, it ends and those who would get help through the charity of the company will suffer. Like Pfizer, they claim to make so much profit in their annual reports but they can’t claim for example they are giving computers away to needy charities (they actually buying the computers they leased to give away) or they hand out their products to places like clinics in South Africa by the ton.
MrGautama
Not a Member
Every single topic you mention we have discussed before, you and I stand in opposite extremes of the political spectrum. To have to repeat pretty much the same again in another round of page-long posts that chases everybody away from the threads is not something I'm looking forward to do today. Don't take me wrong, I find very interesting your posts but you and I are getting nowhere.
Last edited:
greg334
Veteran Expediter
I understand, but here is the thing I am wondering about; what have you really done to back what you are saying about this country based on what you want to see changed in the world and what we haven't done?
I have done a lot and sacrificed more to change other's lives for the better but maybe I have missed something along the way by being intolerant to the people who are claiming that changes are needed but have done nothing to make the changes themselves.
I have done a lot and sacrificed more to change other's lives for the better but maybe I have missed something along the way by being intolerant to the people who are claiming that changes are needed but have done nothing to make the changes themselves.
MrGautama
Not a Member
It's a fair question, and the short answer would be not enough. But the highlights could be donating my time in summer while in college to do something that could be translated as "summer work camp" to help build housing and rural infrastructure for the the indigenous inhabitants that had been neglected and discriminated against for centuries. In the same area of construction there was a grass roots movement for the restoration of abandoned buildings to move families out of the slums and in to decent housing in which I participated until it's forced dissolution. Also got involved in food recollection and distribution for the most affected by the economic situation.
Still while abroad participated almost religiously in the numerous strikes and epic popular insurrections that occurred at the end of the regime and helped bring down the tyranny.
Here in the sates has been a bit different with more monetary resources I've been able to channel donations to charity, helped as a volunteer translator and reader for immigrants regularizing their legal status. I'm a member of Amnesty International and have written hundreds of letters through the years and believed or not have seen the results as dozens of prisoners of conscience that I wrote in behalf have been released, people have been protected, and justice have been accomplished in many cases after the onslaught of mail makes impunity impossible (the last letter I wrote was to an official in Chavez's government for the protection and justice for a man that was shot but survived and his family that has received numerous threats for publicly criticizing the way the education is being handled in Venezuela).
Listing all that was nice, lots of long forgotten memories and faces from my youth came to mind.
Now to the core of your question, what have I done to change the reality I see breeds most of the social problems we have; well that is a two part answer. First, educate myself; there is no use in sitting all day whining about all what's wrong when can't offer an alternative or a solution. Second, Involve myself in political activism which I won't detail for being of no use in this conversation but that includes the exposure and resistance to corporate media monopoly and support of independent outlets, the solution to the unwanted pregnancies and abortion issue, and the de-imperialization and de-militarization of our country.
Now, I think one of the most important things I've done lately was just to exercise my right to vote and through it remove from power a grave danger for us and the world.
Still while abroad participated almost religiously in the numerous strikes and epic popular insurrections that occurred at the end of the regime and helped bring down the tyranny.
Here in the sates has been a bit different with more monetary resources I've been able to channel donations to charity, helped as a volunteer translator and reader for immigrants regularizing their legal status. I'm a member of Amnesty International and have written hundreds of letters through the years and believed or not have seen the results as dozens of prisoners of conscience that I wrote in behalf have been released, people have been protected, and justice have been accomplished in many cases after the onslaught of mail makes impunity impossible (the last letter I wrote was to an official in Chavez's government for the protection and justice for a man that was shot but survived and his family that has received numerous threats for publicly criticizing the way the education is being handled in Venezuela).
Listing all that was nice, lots of long forgotten memories and faces from my youth came to mind.
Now to the core of your question, what have I done to change the reality I see breeds most of the social problems we have; well that is a two part answer. First, educate myself; there is no use in sitting all day whining about all what's wrong when can't offer an alternative or a solution. Second, Involve myself in political activism which I won't detail for being of no use in this conversation but that includes the exposure and resistance to corporate media monopoly and support of independent outlets, the solution to the unwanted pregnancies and abortion issue, and the de-imperialization and de-militarization of our country.
Now, I think one of the most important things I've done lately was just to exercise my right to vote and through it remove from power a grave danger for us and the world.
MrGautama
Not a Member
I removed the perpetuation of the mistake by keeping McSame out. And by the way the last president wasn't really Junior "the patzy" Bush... It was that deranged criminal enterprise known as Cheney & Co.
Slo-Ride
Veteran Expediter
I openly admit I am not as well vs and informed as some of you folks nor can I write as well as ya do....and if I reading some of this right (yes my head hurts..some of ya are deep)
But I gotta ask,,,Why did you particapte in the election if your so against any form of Gov?
No insult intended by term "socialist" - it just fits the parameters of your philosophy, which seems a bit fractious.
"Socialists want power . . . and once in power wish to impose their programme on the people. . . Anarchists instead maintain, that government cannot be other than harmful, and by its very nature it defends either an existing privileged class or creates a new one; and instead of inspiring to take the place of the existing government anarchists seek to destroy every organism which empowers some to impose their own ideas and interests on others, for they want to free the way for development towards better forms of human fellowship which will emerge from experience, by everyone being free and, having, of course, the economic means to make freedom possible as well as a reality." [Errico Malatesta: His Life and Ideas, p. 14
Your definition(s) of anarchism is/are a bit nebulous, to say the least. Anyone who advocates high taxes and strong govt. certainly walks and quacks like a socialist. But if socialism is your guiding light, so be it. It appears to me that your identity (whether it's an alter ego of another poster or not) has appeared on this forum for the sole purpose of tweaking the conservatives, which is fine if it's based on reasonable discussion. However, your posts and replies have a certain flavor of condescending arrogance that we've seen here before. If you sell a finished product, I guess you're not an expediter - they provide services.
MrGautama
Not a Member
I openly admit I am not as well vs and informed as some of you folks nor can I write as well as ya do....and if I reading some of this right (yes my head hurts..some of ya are deep)
But I gotta ask,,,Why did you particapte in the election if your so against any form of Gov?
I explained that earlier in this thread:
Why did I?
jrcarroll
Expert Expediter
If you have a desire to step back 30 years in time. Move to the Ozarks.
200 years back and ya'll come on down to S Carolina.
MrGautama
Not a Member
OK Pilgrim, I have to take the blame for being condescendent sometimes, but it would be impossible to refute with reason everything I get thrown in this forum. Imagine this, if you say something like "war on terror", "support the troops", "socialism is authoritarian", etc. what you get?; just a chorus of yeahs and you don't have to go any further. But when I say something like "American atrocities" I better have a really d**m good and long explanation for it because what I profess is outside of the traditional thematic in this forum.
I guess in some instances I just say something condescendent or arrogant when I receive something too far gone to the extreme that it would take me an hour to refute.
OK let's see:
-Both Socialism and Capitalism can be either a Democracy or a Dictatorship and if anybody tells you differently his lying to you.
-Mr Malatesta's reference to socialism is right in the context that he used it; he was referring to a Marxist model of Socialism (which is one of many and absolutely opposed to my position).
-I choose to side with the Democrats because I have no other choice. If I decide to give my vote the Greens or whatever the only thing I've really accomplished is to make it easier for the Republicans to gain or retain power. A prime example of that is the Nader incident; if he hadn't tried his bid for the presidency probably many of the 4200 kids that were sent to their deaths would be alive today.
If one day during my lifetime, thanks to the work of many great people, Anarchism becomes a possible contender I certainly will vote that way but for now I won't disengage from politics because I am forced to choose for the least damaging of the alternatives.
-The alter ego deal is just good old "character assassination" prompted by the inability to counter superior argument. Just have to take it with humor.
-I am an expediter, I think you are correct in that in neoclassical economic theory it would be a service. But I see it from a different perspective; because I don't sell my time from which labor has to be extracted but rather the finish product of "making an object be at a certain place at a particular time"; how I do it is no one's business but mine so labor doesn't have to be extracted from me through the use of a manager which is a coercive figure or tool.
space
space
space