MrGautama
Not a Member
C'mon don't get shy in front of your friends, it's he pattern Dave... the pattern!
To Davekc
- Thread starter MrGautama
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C'mon don't get shy in front of your friends, it's he pattern Dave... the pattern!
The Organization(s) is Acorn or the Weather Underground
MrGautama
Not a Member
And you back that up how?...
Do not be fooled by those education numbers. The tests are VERY scewed due to the way that they educate over there.
In this country we have a more general education system, broad subject base. We do not even start to specialize until college and even then not really until you head for your Masters or above.
In England they "Push" kids into specialties at a very early age. If you are good in math or science you study almost NOTHING else from about age 10 on. They will always score higher on specific subject tests. IF you were to give them a general knowlege test they would fall far below most normal US, kids. If you did not live there you would not have the chance to see this in action. Much of Europe is the same. The education systems are NOT readily comparable.
Health care there sucks. I do not know nor care about life expectancy, too many other things come into play. I was forced to use thier National Health system for 5 years. NO WAY is it on par with the US or even Canada for that matter. Multi-year waiting lists, birth by conveience, no care for seniors with life threating illnesses. ETC ETC ETC
You see, I don't put too much stake or faith in studies. I know what I saw when I lived there. I know what many friends of mine who lived all over the world reported. I know just how many Birts in thier intell service became US citizens to stay here after being stationed here.
Do not trust what you read. GO live there for a few YEARS, vactations don't count. SEE it, don't read about it.
Layoutshooter
In this country we have a more general education system, broad subject base. We do not even start to specialize until college and even then not really until you head for your Masters or above.
In England they "Push" kids into specialties at a very early age. If you are good in math or science you study almost NOTHING else from about age 10 on. They will always score higher on specific subject tests. IF you were to give them a general knowlege test they would fall far below most normal US, kids. If you did not live there you would not have the chance to see this in action. Much of Europe is the same. The education systems are NOT readily comparable.
Health care there sucks. I do not know nor care about life expectancy, too many other things come into play. I was forced to use thier National Health system for 5 years. NO WAY is it on par with the US or even Canada for that matter. Multi-year waiting lists, birth by conveience, no care for seniors with life threating illnesses. ETC ETC ETC
You see, I don't put too much stake or faith in studies. I know what I saw when I lived there. I know what many friends of mine who lived all over the world reported. I know just how many Birts in thier intell service became US citizens to stay here after being stationed here.
Do not trust what you read. GO live there for a few YEARS, vactations don't count. SEE it, don't read about it.
Layoutshooter
Go to the web sites...
So in other words American know a lot about nothing and specialize in very little? Where to where British kids are guided to their strengths and excel....
MrGautama
Not a Member
According to The New Economics Foundation these are the 10 happiest countries in the world, does remind us of another list we saw earlier uh...
1. Switzerland
2. Iceland
3. Sweden
4. Canada
5. Austria
6. Finland
7. Luxembourg
8. Norway
9. New Zealand
10. Australia
Oh your misunderstanding..the American way is the only way and every other country in the world has it wrong....
MrGautama
Not a Member
So in other words, you can't back them up. As a lawyer would say: I rest my case!.
Rest your tired ol case on the following words....who cares about other conutries...Go live there if it's better for you...
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.”
Here is a story to try to explain what I mean about education. Please don't insult me with charts and graphs. I lived in England. Most of the people my age were looking to leave. People tend to vote with thier feet. Poll the hundreds of thousands that left. There rest will say they are happy. I never saw it, but they would say it. They just sat around waiting to die. They did NOTHING!! Layoutshooter
MrGautama
Not a Member
Well, I showed you mine... now show me yours! (numbers I mean you perverts!!
)So tell me, if the only way to really know is to go and live there; meaning if I could move to the UK eventually I would come to agree with you, right?. So by that assumption is safe to conclude that everybody in the UK must have a very poor opinion of their system and can't wait to come here, correct?
See where I'm going... that's an argument that is not logically sound, it's a fallacy.
Try this again. Layoutshooter
A story to illustrate what I mean by the "focused" education system in England compared to the United States. In case you are wondering I never finish college, only have a high school diploma.
I belonged to a fishing club while I lived there. It was called Rippon Fly Fishers. I was the first American allowed to join.
We leased some gypsum ponds that we stocked with trout. The water was clear and cold and the trout did well. So did the pike. They we wiping out our trout.
We decided the only way to get rid of the pike was to net the ponds. We bought a huge net, 100ft long by 25ft deep. That net could cover the pond from side to side and top to bottom. It did not come with weights. One club member brought 50 or so small plastic bottles to make weights out of.
Charles, (cannot remember his last name) was a civil engineer who designed and built roads. He, as most in the club, was a highly educated professional. They were the only kind of people in England who earned enough money to join a trout club. Charles said that we should just fill the bottles with water and tie them to the net that would do it.
I said, now wait a minute, the plastic in those bottles is positively buoyant and on its own would float. I went on to say that the water we would put into those bottles would be the say specific gravity as the water in the pond (since we would be using the pond water) and even when filled they would float.
He grabbed a bottle, filled it with water, hefted it and said; see how heavy it is now? It will sink.
We spent an hour or so filling bottles with water and tying them onto the net. Put the entire mess into the water and, guess what, the net did NOT sink!! The bottom slowly floated up as I said it would.
We pulled the net out and emptied the water from the bottles. I then had everyone fill the bottles with gravel, and then filled the space around the gravel with water to displace the air. Tied it onto the net and low and behold, the net sank.
We were then able to net the pike out.
This is a prime example of why you cannot compare education systems. This man was very good at his job and not a stupid man. His problem is he was only trained to do ONE thing and ONE thing only. He could not do everyday things or cross over between subjects.
You have to compare apples to apples.
Layoutshooter
A story to illustrate what I mean by the "focused" education system in England compared to the United States. In case you are wondering I never finish college, only have a high school diploma.
I belonged to a fishing club while I lived there. It was called Rippon Fly Fishers. I was the first American allowed to join.
We leased some gypsum ponds that we stocked with trout. The water was clear and cold and the trout did well. So did the pike. They we wiping out our trout.
We decided the only way to get rid of the pike was to net the ponds. We bought a huge net, 100ft long by 25ft deep. That net could cover the pond from side to side and top to bottom. It did not come with weights. One club member brought 50 or so small plastic bottles to make weights out of.
Charles, (cannot remember his last name) was a civil engineer who designed and built roads. He, as most in the club, was a highly educated professional. They were the only kind of people in England who earned enough money to join a trout club. Charles said that we should just fill the bottles with water and tie them to the net that would do it.
I said, now wait a minute, the plastic in those bottles is positively buoyant and on its own would float. I went on to say that the water we would put into those bottles would be the say specific gravity as the water in the pond (since we would be using the pond water) and even when filled they would float.
He grabbed a bottle, filled it with water, hefted it and said; see how heavy it is now? It will sink.
We spent an hour or so filling bottles with water and tying them onto the net. Put the entire mess into the water and, guess what, the net did NOT sink!! The bottom slowly floated up as I said it would.
We pulled the net out and emptied the water from the bottles. I then had everyone fill the bottles with gravel, and then filled the space around the gravel with water to displace the air. Tied it onto the net and low and behold, the net sank.
We were then able to net the pike out.
This is a prime example of why you cannot compare education systems. This man was very good at his job and not a stupid man. His problem is he was only trained to do ONE thing and ONE thing only. He could not do everyday things or cross over between subjects.
You have to compare apples to apples.
Layoutshooter
What I mean is all you have is numbers, no experience. Those numbers only show what they want to show. Numbers can show anything you want to. You have to see it to understand. Layoutshooter
DougTravels
Not a Member
Mr G, you really shouldn't clutter up all of this right wing rhetoric with facts. It will make them mental--oh wait too late. Just keep sipping that GOP koolaid boys, there you go everything is fine take another sip, put Rush on the radio, now close your eyes see him there, yeah it is good ole Ronnie Reagan ahh sweet dreams.
Gee Mister world traveler, you seem to not understand the difference between subjective and objective polling. You cannot quantify things like happiness. Watch how many move our or in, that is a much better gauge of what they really think. How long did you live overseas? Layoutshooter
MrGautama
Not a Member
Tempting... but no, I'll stay just to bug you!
You are aware that I could use the Declaration of Independence in the complete opposite meaning than the one you use and still be sound?; Actually I think it favors my point of view over yours!.
Any other thing you can come up with to justify the fact that your position is dictated by your gut feelings rather that your reasoning?
OVM, I did not mean to imply that only the US has the answer or the best way. I just know what I saw. The bulk of the young and bright leaving England, many came here, because they had no chance to move up in sociaty in thier native land. The tax system alone killed that. The restrictive laws and almost total control of thier lives took care of any slim chance that they had. Layoutshooter
MrGautama
Not a Member
I know what you meant....its just I hear America this and America that...and look around...our school children are graduating without basic skills....iliteracy (see spelling skills)
your comparing apples and oranges....a young culture as America to a 2,000 yr old culture....