The Trump Card...

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Let's Review

91 criminal charges
26 sexual assault allegations
6 bankruptcies
5 draft deferments
4 indictments 2 impeachments
1 convicted company
1 fake university shut down
1 fake charity shut down
$25 million fraud settlement
$5 million sexual abuse verdict
$2 million charity abuse judgment
 
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Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It appears to be a coordinated effort because Trump's effort to overturn the 2020 election was itself a coordinated effort...
No need to read any further, because this is a false premise. Trump was legally entitled to challenge the election results just like Gore in 2000 and Clinton in 2016. Like Gore and Clinton, he also was wrong - but being wrong not illegal either.
Yes, they could have been brought years ago, but at every turn, Trump and his cronies did everything they could to delay everything they could.
Maybe to a certain extent, but they have no power to prevent a prosecutor to convene a grand jury and hand down indictments on a timely basis as we're witnessing at this convenient point in the election season. The "it's all Trump's fault for delaying" excuse doesn't hold a drop of water.
...But where Trump's cases have been heard by juries before (Trump Organization tax fraud, E. Gene Carroll), the juries have not been kind to Trump.
Civil cases and cases involving Trump corporations are totally irrelevant.
They don't bring cases to court they don't think they can win. The Georgia indictment lists several smoking guns. Jack Smith and Fani Willis are deeply experienced and highly skilled.
Smith is an unscrupulous federal hatchet man with a checkered record. He's best known for his unanimous reversal by SCOTUS in former VA governor Bob McDonald's case, in which his legal excesses and overreach were rejected 8-0. To describe Fani Willis as deeply experienced and highly skilled is laughable. The crowning jewel in her legal resume is the 2015 prosecution of cheating teachers in Atlanta Public Schools. Her scattergun indictments against Trump are legally shaky at best, but she might get one or two to stick considering the venue where the case will be tried.
Trump is in deep, deep trouble and he is likely going to prison.
This sounds like the fervent wish of so many liberals that's based on a pathological hatred of Donald Trump. However, he'll probably be convicted of something in the DC or Atlanta courts, his appeals will take years, and he'll likely never spend a day in prison. Whether the convictions are enough to take him out of the race remains to be seen. So far, his Republican base voters are sticking with him.
Future elections will look normal and trusted as the rule of law will have been upheld, the Constitution will remain intact, and no one will be stupid enough every try again what Trump tried and failed to do.
Nonsense. Hillary Clinton and her campaign apparatus committed many of the same crimes Trump is being accused of and was never charged with anything. She also tried to overthrow a sitting POTUS by concocting the Russia Collusion Hoax and walked away unscathed. If this Soviet style persecution of Trump is successful, the Democrat party will have established the template for defeating their future candidates with smear tactics and contrived charges in various state and federal courts in favorable venues, rather than rely on prevailing in the arena of ideas during campaigns. It stands to reason that the GOP would respond in kind, and then the country would be in deep, deep trouble.

There are larger issues in play with this weaponized government agenda against Trump, far more serious than just political persecution of an individual. The checks and balances of government can't work when the executive and judicial branches conspire to neutralize the leading candidate opposing the party in power. Now is the time for Congress to get off it's collective keyster and do something besides forming committees and launching endless investigations.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter

No need to read any further, because this is a false premise. Trump was legally entitled to challenge the election results just like Gore in 2000 and Clinton in 2016. Like Gore and Clinton, he also was wrong - but being wrong not illegal either.
If it was a false premise, we would not see multiple agencies finding probable cause to investigate crimes, find evidence of crimes, and charge crimes. The problem is not that Trump challenged election results. He actually did that 62 times in court, and none of those challenges were deemed illegal acts. The problem is Trump committed crimes in his attempts to OVERTURN (not challenge) the election.
Maybe to a certain extent, but they have no power to prevent a prosecutor to convene a grand jury and hand down indictments on a timely basis as we're witnessing at this convenient point in the election season. The "it's all Trump's fault for delaying" excuse doesn't hold a drop of water.
Zero cooperation from Trump and his cronies. Multiple actions to delay. Lots of water.
Civil cases and cases involving Trump corporations are totally irrelevant.
They are relevant as an indicator of how Trump does in court.
Smith is an unscrupulous federal hatchet man with a checkered record. He's best known for his unanimous reversal by SCOTUS in former VA governor Bob McDonald's case, in which his legal excesses and overreach were rejected 8-0. To describe Fani Willis as deeply experienced and highly skilled is laughable. The crowning jewel in her legal resume is the 2015 prosecution of cheating teachers in Atlanta Public Schools. Her scattergun indictments against Trump are legally shaky at best, but she might get one or two to stick considering the venue where the case will be tried.
Yes, Smith has those items on his record. He is also hailed as a seasoned prosecutor of a war criminal and has other credits to his name. Like it or not, Smith is the special counsel. His record is not on trial here. Trump is. If there are any irregularities Smith does in this case, you can be 100% certain Trump's attorney's will bring attention to them in court. Nothing so far in that regard.
This sounds like the fervent wish of so many liberals that's based on a pathological hatred of Donald Trump. However, he'll probably be convicted of something in the DC or Atlanta courts, his appeals will take years, and he'll likely never spend a day in prison.
While appeals are likely, why do you think they would take years? To me, it seems more likely that an appeal will be limited to whatever question is raised on appeal, and there is no reason to believe a higher court will agree to consider even that. This is speculation about a future unknown. But I see no reason to believe major errors will be committed by the judges that will provide a sound basis for appeal. Appeals will certainly be made, but they must have sound basis to be taken up.
Whether the convictions are enough to take him out of the race remains to be seen. So far, his Republican base voters are sticking with him.
If Trump is forced out of the race, he's out. If Trump remains in the race, he's going to lose. In the long run, it matters little if Trump stays in through November. As I've said before, there is zero chance he will win the general election.
Nonsense. Hillary Clinton and her campaign apparatus committed many of the same crimes Trump is being accused of and was never charged with anything. She also tried to overthrow a sitting POTUS by concocting the Russia Collusion Hoax and walked away unscathed. If this Soviet style persecution of Trump is successful, the Democrat party will have established the template for defeating their future candidates with smear tactics and contrived charges in various state and federal courts in favorable venues, rather than rely on prevailing in the arena of ideas during campaigns. It stands to reason that the GOP would respond in kind, and then the country would be in deep, deep trouble.

There are larger issues in play with this weaponized government agenda against Trump, far more serious than just political persecution of an individual. The checks and balances of government can't work when the executive and judicial branches conspire to neutralize the leading candidate opposing the party in power. Now is the time for Congress to get off it's collective keyster and do something besides forming committees and launching endless investigations.

Our views of this differ. I do not believe the DOJ is "weaponized" and acting at Biden's direction. You do. This isn't abut you and me agreeing to disagree. It's about one of us being wrong.
 
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muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
In Georgia, the law provides that grand juror names are disclosed to the public. No mistake. Not sloppy.
Sloppy sloppy and careless.

IMG_3908.jpeg
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
If it was a false premise, we would not see multiple agencies finding probable cause to investigate crimes, find evidence of crimes, and charge crimes. The problem is not that Trump challenged election results. He actually did that 62 times in court, and none of those challenges were deemed illegal acts. The problem is Trump committed crimes in his attempts to OVERTURN (not challenge) the election.

Zero cooperation from Trump and his cronies. Multiple actions to delay. Lots of water.

They are relevant as an indicator of how Trump does in court.

Yes, Smith has those items on his record. He is also hailed as a seasoned prosecutor of a war criminal and has other credits to his name. Like it or not, Smith is the special counsel. His record is not on trial here. Trump is. If there are any irregularities Smith does in this case, you can be 100% certain Trump's attorney's will bring attention to them in court. Nothing so far in that regard.

While appeals are likely, why do you think they would take years? To me, it seems more likely that an appeal will be limited to whatever question is raised on appeal, and there is no reason to believe a higher court will agree to consider even that. This is speculation about a future unknown. But I see no reason to believe major errors will be committed by the judges that will provide a sound basis for appeal. Appeals will certainly be made, but they must have sound basis to be taken up.

If Trump is forced out of the race, he's out. If Trump remains in the race, he's going to lose. In the long run, it matters little if Trump stays in through November. As I've said before, there is zero chance he will win the general election.


Our views of this differ. I do not believe the DOJ is "weaponized" and acting at Biden's direction. You do. This isn't abut you and me agreeing to disagree. It's about one of us being wrong.
Your premise wrong. The "agencies" that charged Trump are ALL controlled by Dems who have a hate-on for him.
 

coalminer

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Your premise wrong. The "agencies" that charged Trump are ALL controlled by Dems who have a hate-on for him.
And all of those agencies are driven by the constitution, their entire reason for existence is to enforce the laws of our land. Nobody is above the law, you may not care your guy broke the law, but anyone who actually cares about our laws does and they are doing what needs to be done.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Something to Watch

This is one poll, not an average of multiple polls, and it was done before the GA indictment, so I don't want to put full stock in this. But is illustrates something I've been watching for; namely, the moment when Republicans realize Emperor Trump has no clothes.

Again, this is one poll. But if we start seeing multiple polls trending in this direction, we'll also see Trump's primary opponents ramping up their attacks and fewer Trump defenders rising on his behalf. That will prompt others to fade their support, which will prompt others, etc.

I see no scenario in which Trump does not become the nominee. With his MAGA die-hards, Trump has an iron grip on the Republican Party nominating mechanism. But if polling shown here develops into a trend, Trump's situation will become hopeless. He will go to prison and the Republican Party will be effectively destroyed (collapsed as a functioning entity for the next election cycle or two.

 
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muttly

Veteran Expediter
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And all of those agencies are driven by the constitution, their entire reason for existence is to enforce the laws of our land. Nobody is above the law, you may not care your guy broke the law, but anyone who actually cares about our laws does and they are doing what needs to be done.
Don’t delude yourself about what they’re trying to do. And definitely “rationalizing” it isn’t a good thing as well.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
While MAGA Pleads, Trump Has No Hope for a GA Pardon

 
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muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
While MAGA Pleads, Trump Has No Hope for a GA Pardon

No need for a Ga. pardon. Trump, as President, will pardon himself.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
No need to read any further, because this is a false premise. Trump was legally entitled to challenge the election results just like Gore in 2000 and Clinton in 2016. Like Gore and Clinton, he also was wrong - but being wrong not illegal either.

Maybe to a certain extent, but they have no power to prevent a prosecutor to convene a grand jury and hand down indictments on a timely basis as we're witnessing at this convenient point in the election season. The "it's all Trump's fault for delaying" excuse doesn't hold a drop of water.

Civil cases and cases involving Trump corporations are totally irrelevant.

Smith is an unscrupulous federal hatchet man with a checkered record. He's best known for his unanimous reversal by SCOTUS in former VA governor Bob McDonald's case, in which his legal excesses and overreach were rejected 8-0. To describe Fani Willis as deeply experienced and highly skilled is laughable. The crowning jewel in her legal resume is the 2015 prosecution of cheating teachers in Atlanta Public Schools. Her scattergun indictments against Trump are legally shaky at best, but she might get one or two to stick considering the venue where the case will be tried.

This sounds like the fervent wish of so many liberals that's based on a pathological hatred of Donald Trump. However, he'll probably be convicted of something in the DC or Atlanta courts, his appeals will take years, and he'll likely never spend a day in prison. Whether the convictions are enough to take him out of the race remains to be seen. So far, his Republican base voters are sticking with him.

Nonsense. Hillary Clinton and her campaign apparatus committed many of the same crimes Trump is being accused of and was never charged with anything. She also tried to overthrow a sitting POTUS by concocting the Russia Collusion Hoax and walked away unscathed. If this Soviet style persecution of Trump is successful, the Democrat party will have established the template for defeating their future candidates with smear tactics and contrived charges in various state and federal courts in favorable venues, rather than rely on prevailing in the arena of ideas during campaigns. It stands to reason that the GOP would respond in kind, and then the country would be in deep, deep trouble.

There are larger issues in play with this weaponized government agenda against Trump, far more serious than just political persecution of an individual. The checks and balances of government can't work when the executive and judicial branches conspire to neutralize the leading candidate opposing the party in power. Now is the time for Congress to get off it's collective keyster and do something besides forming committees and launching endless investigations.
What Pilgrim said. And also the executive branch conspiring with highly partisan state(NY.Ga.) actors as well.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
No need for a Ga. pardon. Trump, as President, will pardon himself.
GA has a Pardon Board, so there's no way Kemp could unilaterally change the law by himself. Why would they even approach Kemp in the first place? Whoever these MAGA villains might be - if they even exist - they must not know much about GA law.
 
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Pilgrim

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Our views of this differ. I do not believe the DOJ is "weaponized" and acting at Biden's direction. You do. This isn't abut you and me agreeing to disagree. It's about one of us being wrong.
This entire exchange is one of opinions (views) and speculation from opposite ends of the political spectrum. That being the case, there is no right or wrong - yet. That remains to be seen. By Nov of '24 one of us will have our views proven to be more wrong than the other. Such is life.
 
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muttly

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GA has a Pardon Board, so there's no way Kemp could unilaterally change the law by himself. Why would they even approach Kemp in the first place? Whoever these MAGA villains might be - if they even exist - they must not know much about GA law.
Trump won’t need to rely on Ga. Pardon Board, which can’t pardon until after five years served anyway.
As president he will merely pardon himself.
 
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muttly

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