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RLENT

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
muttly said:
Trump responds:
View attachment 21839
Click to expand...

Yeah, no Orange Doofus ... that isn't what happened - she didn't "take it over" ...

She just agreed to hear your pleas and consider appointing a Special Master ... which she says she is inclined to do.

But she didn't enjoin the FBI/DOJ from continuing to go through the docs in the meantime.

By the time she gets around to ruling, they'll be done.

Furthermore, there's a little matter of the law ... which states any lawsuits concerning disputes between a former president and NARA over records, have to be filed in DC court.

Ooops !!!

:tearsofjoy:
 
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RLENT

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
muttly said:
Why can’t some accept that Trump had this power as President up to the very last second of his Presidency?
Click to expand...

Like his Orange Master, Kashyap Patel is not a serious person ... or a reliable narrator.

He had his sorry butt thrown out of court by a federal judge while he was at DOJ.

He's a clown ... and will always be a clown.

But I guess if that all one has, that's what you go with ...

:tearsofjoy:
 
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RLENT

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
ATeam said:
This Judge's preliminary intent to appoint a special master surprises me.
Click to expand...

Not me.

She's probably very cognizant of the MAGA Lunatic Hordes ... especially in FL.

ATeam said:
I was expecting her to throw the lawsuit out of her court, or refer it to the appropriate duty judge above the magistrate, saying she did not have jurisdiction to take up the case.
Click to expand...

If it involves a dispute between Trump and NARA - and it appears to - she doesn't - under the law, those suits have to be filed in DC.

Ooops !!!

:tearsofjoy:

ATeam said:
What's next? Various filings per the judge's order and a possible appeal by DOJ. We'll see what develops out of those.
Click to expand...

I suspect it's a kabuki dance ... rather than immediately refuse him outright and set off the psychos, she'll give a listen and eventually tell Donnie "Gee ... I wish I could help but unfortunately ..."
 
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danthewolf00

Veteran Expediter
And the current President revoked (or did not extend, if you prefer) Citizen Trump's ability to do either (handle/access)......from "rlent"

And thus this is how the trap was set up....to criminalize trump.
 
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ATeam

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Pilgrim said:
Maybe Barack Obama could enlighten us on the methods used to accumulate, store and then transport large quantities of documents from the Oval Office to a private facility. He took about 30 MILLION PAGES of documents (classified and otherwise) to a Chicago storage facility that were to be digitized and returned to NARA.
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You are repeating a story popular in MAGA circles but inaccurate. Kindly review this. (Source)

"The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) assumed exclusive legal and physical custody of Obama Presidential records when President Barack Obama left office in 2017, in accordance with the Presidential Records Act (PRA). NARA moved approximately 30 million pages of unclassified records to a NARA facility in the Chicago area where they are maintained exclusively by NARA. Additionally, NARA maintains the classified Obama Presidential records in a NARA facility in the Washington, DC, area. As required by the PRA, former President Obama has no control over where and how NARA stores the Presidential records of his Administration. For more information, please visit Press Statements in Response to Media Queries About Presidential Records"

And this:

apnews.com

Obama didn’t keep millions of classified White House documents

Amid mounting revelations surrounding the FBI’s search of former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate, a counternarrative pushed online — including by Trump himself — posits that Obama similarly kept possession of White House documents after his term of office.
apnews.com apnews.com
 
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ATeam

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Pilgrim said:
This action will likely result in legal battles that go on for years, and the winner in court may or may not be Trump.
Click to expand...
As I said above, the judge's stated preliminary intent to appoint a special master surprised me. She herself said the final decision has not yet been made and the DOJ may appeal. That said, at present, it appears more likely than not that a special master will be appointed.

So what exactly will that mean? Neither you nor I can now at this point, but allow me to share my admittedly speculative views here.

A special master will certainly have the delaying effect I believe Trump wants. But appointing a special master will not delay the entire investigation and the delay will be minor.

It's worth nothing the differences between this investigation and others Trump has endured.

This is a CRIMINAL investigation with a grand jury formed long ago and many witnesses already heard from. TRUMP"S track record of obstruction in this case is already well established and documented. A huge amount of documentary evidence already exists and has been thoroughly reviewed by prosecutors. Probable cause that crimes have been committed is already well established.

As far as I know, not a single witness has fought a subpoena or refused to testify before this grand jury. That often-used Trump delaying tactic has not been tried in this case, or if it has been tried, it has not been successful.

EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE: Trump has frequently claimed executive privilege in his public statements and some defenses against subpoenas. But in this case EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE DOES NOT APPLY. Executive privilege protects one branch of government (executive, legislative, judical) against the intrusions of another, like protecting a presidential aid from overreaching questions posed by a congressional committee. But congress is not involved in this. The National Archives is part of the executive branch, as is the DOJ. Executive privilege is not used to protect the executive branch from the executive branch, so, in this case, it simply does not apply. Accordingly, the special master's work is made that much lighter since the documents do not need to be reviewed with executive privilege in mind.

ATTORNEY CLIENT PRIVILEGE: This does apply. We can legitimately expect the special master to exclude all documents seized from Mar-a-Lago that are correspondence between Trump and his attorney's on a matter that is protected by attorney client privilege, or records that relate to the same. The DOJ filter team (a/k/a "taint team") is going through the documents now to isolate and keep those documents out of investigator view. Whether it is a filter team or special master, the work is the same and the delay would be equally long; except that, if the special master determines there is a need to ignore previous work done and start from scratch, Trump would gain a delay of the time that passed between the search and the appointment of the special master.

I'm thinking the chances are pretty good that the DOJ will simply accept and fully comply with the Judge's decision to appoint a special master. That nips in the bud the "legal battles that go on for years" you mentioned above, and frees DOJ to continue it's work without additional Trump-initiated delays. If DOJ does not appeal, Trump has nothing to contest, and the special master, who does not report or talk to Trump, can go quietly on with that work.

Again, my views shared here are speculative. I previously speculated that the judge would not take up Trump's case on jurisdiction grounds, and it turned out that I was wrong about that. I may be wrong about this too.
 
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muttly

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
ATeam said:
As I said above, the judge's stated preliminary intent to appoint a special master surprised me. She herself said the final decision has not yet been made and the DOJ may appeal. That said, at present, it appears more likely than not that a special master will be appointed.

So what exactly will that mean? Neither you nor I can now at this point, but allow me to share my admittedly speculative views here.

A special master will certainly have the delaying effect I believe Trump wants. But appointing a special master will not delay the entire investigation and the delay will be minor.

It's worth nothing the differences between this investigation and others Trump has endured.

This is a CRIMINAL investigation with a grand jury formed long ago and many witnesses already heard from. TRUMP"S track record of obstruction in this case is already well established and documented. A huge amount of documentary evidence already exists and has been thoroughly reviewed by prosecutors. Probable cause that crimes have been committed is already well established.

As far as I know, not a single witness has fought a subpoena or refused to testify before this grand jury. That often-used Trump delaying tactic has not been tried in this case, or if it has been tried, it has not been successful.

EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE: Trump has frequently claimed executive privilege in his public statements and some defenses against subpoenas. But in this case EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE DOES NOT APPLY. Executive privilege protects one branch against the intrusions of another, like protecting a presidential aid from overreaching questions posed by a congressional committee. But congress is not involved in this. The National Archives is part of the executive branch, as is the DOJ. Executive privilege is not used to protect the executive branch from the executive branch, so, in this case, it simply does not apply. Accordingly, the special master's work is made that much lighter since the documents do not need to be reviewed with executive privilege in mind.

ATTORNEY CLIENT PRIVILEGE: This does apply. We can legitimately expect the special master to exclude all documents seized from Mar-a-Lago that are correspondence between Trump and his attorney's on a matter that is protected by attorney client privilege, or records that relate to the same. The DOJ filter team (a/k/a "taint team") is going through the documents now to isolate and keep those documents out of investigator view. Whether it is a filter team or special master, the work is the same and the delay would be equally long; except that, if the special master determines there is a need to ignore previous work done and start from scratch, Trump would gain a delay of the time that passed between the search and the appointment of the special master.

I'm thinking the chances are pretty good that the DOJ will simply accept and fully comply with the Judge's decision to appoint a special master. That nips in the bud the "legal battles that go on for years" you mentioned above, and frees DOJ to continue it's work without additional Trump-initiated delays. If DOJ does not appeal, Trump has nothing to contest, and the special master, who does not report or talk to Trump, can go quietly on with that work.

Again, my views shared here are speculative. I previously speculated that the judge would not take up Trump's case on jurisdiction grounds, and it turned out that I was wrong about that. I may be wrong about this too.
Click to expand...
You can't be charged with obstruction for non crimes.
 
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danthewolf00

Veteran Expediter
muttly said:
They act like he wasn’t even President and had the power to declassify everything. And also is given given access to ALL of those records after his presidency.
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If Biden can take away trumps clearance then send the doj and fbi after him that's called going after your political opponent. Which only dictators do in third world countries.
 
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