Stop Smoking Now!!!
- Thread starter copdsux
- Start date
Hmmmmm i see fake moral ethics as being the real culprit now.
If the sin/crime/questionable activity is something a lot of people do, well it must be okay.
how dare we as a society want clean air, healthy lungs and the right not to have to be
subjected to some ones fowl habit.
it is easier for the weak one with a habit that controls them to say to me, dont come around me if you dont like my weakness.
Then I am now unfairly restricted by someones vice, not logic or wellbeing, a vice that
someone cant overcome.
rationalize all you want about loss of rights, to bad you dont care enough about yourself
or those around you to fight for a better world.
go ahead smoke just dont do it around me as i will be as adamant in protecting my rights
as you are in protecting your vice.
If the sin/crime/questionable activity is something a lot of people do, well it must be okay.
how dare we as a society want clean air, healthy lungs and the right not to have to be
subjected to some ones fowl habit.
it is easier for the weak one with a habit that controls them to say to me, dont come around me if you dont like my weakness.
Then I am now unfairly restricted by someones vice, not logic or wellbeing, a vice that
someone cant overcome.
rationalize all you want about loss of rights, to bad you dont care enough about yourself
or those around you to fight for a better world.
go ahead smoke just dont do it around me as i will be as adamant in protecting my rights
as you are in protecting your vice.
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Fake moral ethics? What a load of hypocritical deep fried horse hockey. You lost all credibility with the "weak one with a habit that controls them" comment. Putting aside the oh, so superior because you have no vices, none, you're perfect in every way, attitude for a moment, you're adamant about not being "unfairly restricted by someone's vice," yet you have no problem whatsoever is restricting someone else, and you justify it by you being not-weak and they being weak. You are cloaking the want and need to tell others what to do in the guise of our own fake moral ethics, justifying it by flatly stating that you have that right because they are weak and you are not. Unbelievable.
Yes, we as a society want clean air, healthy lungs (personally I'd like other body parts to be healthy, as well) and the right not to have to be subjected to someone's fowl habit. We as a society includes smokers, and we as a society have to learn to get along with we as a society. We as a society are not subjected to anyone's fowl habits unless we as a society allow ourselves to be subjected to it. We as a society can stand up and walk out rather than subjecting ourselves to someone's fowl habit. But we as a society won't do that because we as a society would rather feel all superior and tell others what to do and how to act, because we as a society are, in our own minds, at least, absolutely superior because we don't live in glass houses and have all our ducks in a row, therefor we are superior, and have no problems looking down upon the weaklings and feeling all warm and fuzzy for it.
I don't drink, and I don't like drunks. I don't hang out in a lot of bars, either.
Drinking is a fowl habit. Lets boil this grain, let it rot, then drink the runoff. That's disgusting. No, someone drinking doesn't hurt me, or my lungs, but a drunk might drink and drive, and a drunk has lost their inhibitions and some get violent, and may hurt me much more severely and much more immediately than some yahoo's second hand smoke on the other side of a restaurant.
And coffee drinkers. Don't get me started on those weak slimeballs, letting the caffeine rule their lives, yellow their teeth and constantly slurping while you try to talk to them, not to mention all that time in lost productivity going to and from the coffee machine, and all that wasted fuel tracking down a Green Goddess storefront. Just deplorable, nasty, disgusting, fowl.
Knuckle-crackers, meat eaters, nail biters, nose pickers and butt scratchers, hair twirlers, lip lickers, whiners and complainers, pencil chewers and premature ejaculators, right along with people who think they're superior are all gross and disgusting and we need to keep them away from we as a society. The list goes on, and on, and on. Are you on it? What will you do when we as a society comes for you?
Yes, we as a society want clean air, healthy lungs (personally I'd like other body parts to be healthy, as well) and the right not to have to be subjected to someone's fowl habit. We as a society includes smokers, and we as a society have to learn to get along with we as a society. We as a society are not subjected to anyone's fowl habits unless we as a society allow ourselves to be subjected to it. We as a society can stand up and walk out rather than subjecting ourselves to someone's fowl habit. But we as a society won't do that because we as a society would rather feel all superior and tell others what to do and how to act, because we as a society are, in our own minds, at least, absolutely superior because we don't live in glass houses and have all our ducks in a row, therefor we are superior, and have no problems looking down upon the weaklings and feeling all warm and fuzzy for it.
I don't drink, and I don't like drunks. I don't hang out in a lot of bars, either.
Drinking is a fowl habit. Lets boil this grain, let it rot, then drink the runoff. That's disgusting. No, someone drinking doesn't hurt me, or my lungs, but a drunk might drink and drive, and a drunk has lost their inhibitions and some get violent, and may hurt me much more severely and much more immediately than some yahoo's second hand smoke on the other side of a restaurant.
And coffee drinkers. Don't get me started on those weak slimeballs, letting the caffeine rule their lives, yellow their teeth and constantly slurping while you try to talk to them, not to mention all that time in lost productivity going to and from the coffee machine, and all that wasted fuel tracking down a Green Goddess storefront. Just deplorable, nasty, disgusting, fowl.
Knuckle-crackers, meat eaters, nail biters, nose pickers and butt scratchers, hair twirlers, lip lickers, whiners and complainers, pencil chewers and premature ejaculators, right along with people who think they're superior are all gross and disgusting and we need to keep them away from we as a society. The list goes on, and on, and on. Are you on it? What will you do when we as a society comes for you?
Well congratulations to you turtle!!
ya got all kinds of support for your position. mighty strong argument, NOT.
a quote
"Nicotine dependence is the physical vulnerability of your body to the chemical nicotine, which is potently addicting when delivered by various tobacco products. Smoke from cigarettes, cigars and pipes contains thousands of chemicals, including nicotine. Nicotine is also found in chewing tobacco.
Nicotine produces physical and mood-altering effects in your brain that are temporarily pleasing; these effects reinforce your continued use of tobacco and nicotine dependence.
Being addicted to tobacco brings you a host of health problems related to the substances in tobacco smoke. These effects include damage to your lungs, heart and blood vessels. Smokers have significantly higher rates of heart disease, stroke and cancer.
Millions of Americans smoke, and smoking is the leading preventable cause of death in the United States. Men who don't quit smoking lose an average of 13.2 years of life, while smoking women lose even more — an average of 14.5 years.
Overcoming nicotine dependence is difficult and takes commitment, support and time. The sooner you quit smoking, the better. But even if you're a longtime smoker, stopping your nicotine dependence plus taking healthy lifestyle steps can reverse much of the damage smoking has done to your body."
end of quote.
now while i could have wrote the above because i've researched this topic, i didnt.
interestingly enough it came from one of your touted references....... the mayo clinic.
i was just there a few weeks ago and i wasnt surprised to see it was a no smoking
zone.
so after reading your beautiful and articulate response to me, i did something you should have, checked the source you quoted as proof.
if your data is wrong so is your argument. you lose, sorry about not agreeing with you, no
on second thought, i'm not sorry about disagreeing with someone about a fowl disgusting vice
as smoking.
the writing is on the wall, smoking is on the way out. now you all might smoke until it kills you, your right, and i never said it wasnt your right, all i want are my rights.
so go kill yourself with lung cancer and die a happy smoker.
you'll no longer pollute my space and you will ended up as free as you wanted be 6 feet under. ultimately we both get what we want.
oh if ya want to be properly educated on the mayo clinics stance, pm me, i'd be glad to give you web page that quote came from.
ya got all kinds of support for your position. mighty strong argument, NOT.
a quote
"Nicotine dependence is the physical vulnerability of your body to the chemical nicotine, which is potently addicting when delivered by various tobacco products. Smoke from cigarettes, cigars and pipes contains thousands of chemicals, including nicotine. Nicotine is also found in chewing tobacco.
Nicotine produces physical and mood-altering effects in your brain that are temporarily pleasing; these effects reinforce your continued use of tobacco and nicotine dependence.
Being addicted to tobacco brings you a host of health problems related to the substances in tobacco smoke. These effects include damage to your lungs, heart and blood vessels. Smokers have significantly higher rates of heart disease, stroke and cancer.
Millions of Americans smoke, and smoking is the leading preventable cause of death in the United States. Men who don't quit smoking lose an average of 13.2 years of life, while smoking women lose even more — an average of 14.5 years.
Overcoming nicotine dependence is difficult and takes commitment, support and time. The sooner you quit smoking, the better. But even if you're a longtime smoker, stopping your nicotine dependence plus taking healthy lifestyle steps can reverse much of the damage smoking has done to your body."
end of quote.
now while i could have wrote the above because i've researched this topic, i didnt.
interestingly enough it came from one of your touted references....... the mayo clinic.
i was just there a few weeks ago and i wasnt surprised to see it was a no smoking
zone.
so after reading your beautiful and articulate response to me, i did something you should have, checked the source you quoted as proof.
if your data is wrong so is your argument. you lose, sorry about not agreeing with you, no
on second thought, i'm not sorry about disagreeing with someone about a fowl disgusting vice
as smoking.
the writing is on the wall, smoking is on the way out. now you all might smoke until it kills you, your right, and i never said it wasnt your right, all i want are my rights.
so go kill yourself with lung cancer and die a happy smoker.
you'll no longer pollute my space and you will ended up as free as you wanted be 6 feet under. ultimately we both get what we want.
oh if ya want to be properly educated on the mayo clinics stance, pm me, i'd be glad to give you web page that quote came from.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
So.... I find this really... well sad..... I am with turtle when he said "What will you do when we as a society comes for you?"
This is my point.
Here is the thing, the habit is bad, we are intelligent creatures, so let people decide but when it comes down to my home, my car, my property, I do not want anyone telling me what I can and can not do in it or with it. It has nothing to do with the habit but the fact that we as a society look the other way when we have things like Kelo v New London happen and a majority of the people are ignorant of the fact that this is what our rights are based on, not the first amendment or second but property rights, and those rights were damaged with that court case. It opens the door to other abuses.
Maybe when they start rounding up the guns people will wake up and realize what it really is all about.
People just don't get it.
This is my point.
Here is the thing, the habit is bad, we are intelligent creatures, so let people decide but when it comes down to my home, my car, my property, I do not want anyone telling me what I can and can not do in it or with it. It has nothing to do with the habit but the fact that we as a society look the other way when we have things like Kelo v New London happen and a majority of the people are ignorant of the fact that this is what our rights are based on, not the first amendment or second but property rights, and those rights were damaged with that court case. It opens the door to other abuses.
Maybe when they start rounding up the guns people will wake up and realize what it really is all about.
People just don't get it.
The other issue that every one skirted around, in ohio, the majority voted in the ban on smoking.
Clean and simple.
The smokers lost their right to invade a non-smokers space.
Nobody like to lose what they enjoyed as a freedom for eons, yet the smokers lost.
ITS THE AMERICAN WAY!!!!!
if ya dont like it .....eheheheh,
ya can always leave.
Clean and simple.
The smokers lost their right to invade a non-smokers space.
Nobody like to lose what they enjoyed as a freedom for eons, yet the smokers lost.
ITS THE AMERICAN WAY!!!!!
if ya dont like it .....eheheheh,
ya can always leave.
Greg,
what you do or I do in our home, car and property i mostly agree with you, its our business.
yet cases can be made for justifiable invasion of homes in the case of, drugs, child porn,
and other illicit activities.
Now if you choose to walk those paths, i think you know someone at anytime could come crashing thru the door. You wont like it, but it still happens.
Justifiable??? the crook cries "They invade my space". The neighbors are relieved to see
the dope dealer shut down.
There will be rules and regulations, always.
I am openly against the censoring that happens on EO.
But in this society, thats the law.
I still will fight it, and lose if i go beyond established boundaries.
Do what you like in your home and car and property, then if you tell me, if you dont
like it you can leave, I'll have no problem, as I would take the same stancee in the like situation.
But, in the public, a middle ground must be met.
Unfortunately, even a middle ground stance can be a radical postion to those who cant
or wont abide by the majorities wishes.
what you do or I do in our home, car and property i mostly agree with you, its our business.
yet cases can be made for justifiable invasion of homes in the case of, drugs, child porn,
and other illicit activities.
Now if you choose to walk those paths, i think you know someone at anytime could come crashing thru the door. You wont like it, but it still happens.
Justifiable??? the crook cries "They invade my space". The neighbors are relieved to see
the dope dealer shut down.
There will be rules and regulations, always.
I am openly against the censoring that happens on EO.
But in this society, thats the law.
I still will fight it, and lose if i go beyond established boundaries.
Do what you like in your home and car and property, then if you tell me, if you dont
like it you can leave, I'll have no problem, as I would take the same stancee in the like situation.
But, in the public, a middle ground must be met.
Unfortunately, even a middle ground stance can be a radical postion to those who cant
or wont abide by the majorities wishes.
I agree with you!
I find it hypocritical in Cleveland that they raise a sin tax on cigs to pay for sport stadiums, yet ban smokers from smoking in those venues.
I never said I believe that everything being done was justifiable, my stance has been
soley around the rights afforded me.
I want and expect those rights to be honored.
You're arguing emotionally over semantics. I don't care if it's 12 years or 13.2 or whatever, it doesn't matter, as that's not the point. But make no mistake, the reference I made with regard to the Mayo Clinic and the CDC was not about premature death years, and the reference was an accurate one. Contrary to your belief, I did, in fact, do the research before I posted it.
Also, be careful, you have no idea whether I smoke or not. Not a clue.
As for Ohio, that mess of a law was worded in such a way that no one knew what they were voting on, and it's still being looked into in Columbus on how to change many aspects of it. Is it still illegal to smoke a cigar in a cigar bar in Ohio?
The problem is many non-smokers think this will all end with smoking. The ban works for them so they're for it. They don't really think about it too much because it doesn't affect them. The ultimate agenda for the anti-smokers is the total eradication of tobacco. While not a bad thing on the surface, the problem is no one wants to look any further than that.
Yeah, people should live healthy lifestyles and take of themselves and not smoke and eat right and drink in moderation and work out lots. But the moment you take that should, and start chiseling it in law, you start down a very dangerous path.
We're on that path now. The bans are already expanding to outdoor areas. Some places ban smoking in all workplaces, indoor and outdoor, including, say, a road construction site or a rock quarry. There's talk about banning smoking in cars if you have children in the vehicle. How big a step is it from banning it in cars with children to banning it in homes with children?
It's a really small step, that's how big.
One town in California, Belmont, has already made it illegal to smoke in your own home if it is a multi-floor, multi-unit dwelling. Yeah. Smoking in only allowed in single-family homes and their yards, and units and yards in apartment buildings, condominiums and townhouses that do not share any common floors or ceilings with other units.
So,what are you gonna say when the shoe is on the other foot and they finally get around to going after something that you are interested in? Don't think it won't happen, cause it will. 20 years ago the notion of banning smoking in bars would have been laughed out of the room. Now it's happened. If you wanna smoke at a bar, you have to leave your drink on the bar and go outside and smoke. Can't bring the drink with you. Newp. Some kid might see that, and we can't have children seeing adults drinking. It's OK to see them on public display smoking, tho.
Look out.
Also, be careful, you have no idea whether I smoke or not. Not a clue.
As for Ohio, that mess of a law was worded in such a way that no one knew what they were voting on, and it's still being looked into in Columbus on how to change many aspects of it. Is it still illegal to smoke a cigar in a cigar bar in Ohio?
The problem is many non-smokers think this will all end with smoking. The ban works for them so they're for it. They don't really think about it too much because it doesn't affect them. The ultimate agenda for the anti-smokers is the total eradication of tobacco. While not a bad thing on the surface, the problem is no one wants to look any further than that.
Yeah, people should live healthy lifestyles and take of themselves and not smoke and eat right and drink in moderation and work out lots. But the moment you take that should, and start chiseling it in law, you start down a very dangerous path.
We're on that path now. The bans are already expanding to outdoor areas. Some places ban smoking in all workplaces, indoor and outdoor, including, say, a road construction site or a rock quarry. There's talk about banning smoking in cars if you have children in the vehicle. How big a step is it from banning it in cars with children to banning it in homes with children?
It's a really small step, that's how big.
One town in California, Belmont, has already made it illegal to smoke in your own home if it is a multi-floor, multi-unit dwelling. Yeah. Smoking in only allowed in single-family homes and their yards, and units and yards in apartment buildings, condominiums and townhouses that do not share any common floors or ceilings with other units.
So,what are you gonna say when the shoe is on the other foot and they finally get around to going after something that you are interested in? Don't think it won't happen, cause it will. 20 years ago the notion of banning smoking in bars would have been laughed out of the room. Now it's happened. If you wanna smoke at a bar, you have to leave your drink on the bar and go outside and smoke. Can't bring the drink with you. Newp. Some kid might see that, and we can't have children seeing adults drinking. It's OK to see them on public display smoking, tho.
Look out.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
I understand what you are saying and agree with it in public places there can be some restrictions, this is by far the least of a problems with the public, but a private business is not a public place. I am not talking about a franchised owned by a public company, I am not talking about an airport or train station but a private company, like a bar where there is no public ownership. These two things are really separate as far as I am concern.
See the home and car and my car restoration shop is mine, not the publics. I open and close my shop as I see fit, not by mandate of the city, state or federal government. If they make a law that I can't bring children in my shop who don't want to be there, that is understandable but if they tell me that I can't restore cars in my shop as part of a nation wide crackdown of restored cars, that is different. The point is, I am not forcing anyone to be in my shop, they choose to come in and sit down. If I am painting or sanding and they don't like it, well they can leave.
As far as Ohio passing things, Michigan passed a law for casinos where it said only cities with more than a million people can have casinos. Well it was not really explained what it was all about, and now we don't have any more cities that have a million people. Just because the state passes a law does not make it right.
Oh and we are not a democracy, you really don't want one.
Turtle,
As far as arguing emotionally, I cant deny that one, my wife wants to know what i am
chuckling about as I two finger the keyboard.
Whether you smoke or not is of no concern to me.
In a court of law the appointed defense attorney doesnt have to believe in the innocence of his client, he has to, by law represent him.
So both a attorneys may believe the person guilty, yet the battle wages on.
you place a far greater area of accountability on me than I am looking for, both in my life and yours.
All i have stated is, I am now afforded liberties, by law, liberties I didnt have a couple of years ago.
I expect the smokers to respect my rights as theirs were respected for the decades prior.
I didnt lead the attact on smokers, nor did i vote for it. Having been a professional
musician for many years of my life, many of the bar owners where I have played have become friends of mine, and I was aware of their concerns.
That being said, it still worked out, that I was afforded rights that I never had before.
I will not give those rights up, unless they are voted away from me.
Fair is fair. Give me what you are demanding.
As far as arguing emotionally, I cant deny that one, my wife wants to know what i am
chuckling about as I two finger the keyboard.
Whether you smoke or not is of no concern to me.
In a court of law the appointed defense attorney doesnt have to believe in the innocence of his client, he has to, by law represent him.
So both a attorneys may believe the person guilty, yet the battle wages on.
you place a far greater area of accountability on me than I am looking for, both in my life and yours.
All i have stated is, I am now afforded liberties, by law, liberties I didnt have a couple of years ago.
I expect the smokers to respect my rights as theirs were respected for the decades prior.
I didnt lead the attact on smokers, nor did i vote for it. Having been a professional
musician for many years of my life, many of the bar owners where I have played have become friends of mine, and I was aware of their concerns.
That being said, it still worked out, that I was afforded rights that I never had before.
I will not give those rights up, unless they are voted away from me.
Fair is fair. Give me what you are demanding.
"Oh and we are not a democracy, you really don't want one."
I was wondering why you said that?
Did I say we were a democracy or did I say I wanted one?
Or was it just a tidbit tossed out to mull on?
Hmmmm, I wonder.
I was wondering why you said that?
Did I say we were a democracy or did I say I wanted one?
Or was it just a tidbit tossed out to mull on?
Hmmmm, I wonder.
That comes from the middle ground not abiding by the majority's wishes thing. I was going to comment on that one myself. You stated that, in public, a middle ground must be met. I'm not sure how the majority forcing their will onto the minority constitutes a meeting of the middle ground, particularly in light of "wont abide by the majorities wishes." More likely, it looks like absolute majority rule.
That's what a democracy is, and is what Greg cautions against. It's also what the US Constitution expressly forbids.
That's what a democracy is, and is what Greg cautions against. It's also what the US Constitution expressly forbids.
Ya got me chuckling again.
Do you really believe that smokers are a minority protected by the constitution?
C'mon tell me it aint so.
If you truly understood the issue here you wouldn't be chuckling. Not at all. No, smokers are not protected by the constitution. But the US Constitution is set up as a Republic, not a Democracy. A democracy is pure, total, absolute majority rule, where the minority, or the individual, has no say whatsoever. In a true democracy the minority, or the individual, has no rights. None. They are at the mercy of the majority.
You quite obviously, as you so stated, prefer pure majority rule.
What happens when you are in the minority?
You quite obviously, as you so stated, prefer pure majority rule.
What happens when you are in the minority?
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, TO SMOKE IN PUBLIC PLACES and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Well golllly I stand corrected, thare it is in black and white.
I'm sorry but as Greg has said several times, this is funny, or was it sad?
You are arguing someones personal habit, vice, need, desire whatever, as though they are rights. No-where is polluting air a right.
In a true democracy, everyone has the same rights as decreed by the majority.
If you happen to be in the minority in voting you will be afforded the same rights as the those who voted in the majority.
It provides us set of guidelines to run our lives. Guidelines that can well be questioned, scrutinized and even changed.
Grow up.
Ya cant always get what ya want.
You adapt, move on, get a dog, whatever.
Too bad you backed a loser.
The concepts are pure and clear.
I dont get everything I want or fight for.
I will even continue to fight for reform after losing.
However, I do respect the decision of the majority until I can somehow, if possible
have them see my point of view as the legitimate point of view.
I HAVE A DREAM, EQUAL WAGES FOR EQUAL WORK, LEGAL DRINKING AGE, AGE OF CONSENT, RELIGION, RIGHT TO LIFE, RIGHT TO DIE.
All good issues, some came to bear fruit while the champions lived some didnt.
better luck next time on the issues.
SMOKE BAD........... HEALTH GOOD.