Scale question

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I'm gonna have to agree to agree with Xiggi and agree to disagree with Turtle. Is the mini van driving, soccer mommy going to change her driving habits around big trucks just because the big truck has HAZMAT placards?
Some won't, some will.

If people that should know all about HAZMAT are clueless, why force the general public to pass a CDL type HAZMAT test?
Because while it won't be 100% effective and help 100% of the people who take the test, just the same as it's not 100% effective currently, it will help a lot of people learn something they otherwise would not know. Because having information is by and large generally speaking for the most part better than not having it.

The regular operator's license stresses rules of the road, red-green-yellow, what the different straight and squiggly lines mean. The CDL test stresses safety, such as the importance of a pre-trip, the importance of dealing with emergencies, of concentrating on driving while driving. It changes the mindset of the driver who takes the test. The HAZMAT test takes that further and stresses the importance of the trucks that are carrying materials which post an unreasonable risk to the public and the environment. I cannot even fathom how being ignorant of that stuff is preferable to being aware of it.
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
Some won't, some will.

Because while it won't be 100% effective and help 100% of the people who take the test, just the same as it's not 100% effective currently, it will help a lot of people learn something they otherwise would not know. Because having information is by and large generally speaking for the most part better than not having it.

It might seem pointless to someone like xiggi that displays common sense but not everyone has that ability. I was following another TT in the right lane and there was a pickup truck coming up behind me. We both moved over into the left lane because there was a cop with someone pulled over on the shoulder, the pickup truck decided to pass us on the right as we were passing the cop. We get cut off dozens of times a day, idiots passing us on the right just because they can get by as we are trying to pass someone, people that won't wait a few seconds to let a truck move over when there is a vehicle on the shoulder, and people that cut us off and slow right down.

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blackpup

Veteran Expediter
It might seem pointless to someone like xiggi that displays common sense but not everyone has that ability. I was following another TT in the right lane and there was a pickup truck coming up behind me. We both moved over into the left lane because there was a cop with someone pulled over on the shoulder, the pickup truck decided to pass us on the right as we were passing the cop. We get cut off dozens of times a day, idiots passing us on the right just because they can get by as we are trying to pass someone, people that won't wait a few seconds to let a truck move over when there is a vehicle on the shoulder, and people that cut us off and slow right down.

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Lack of common sense might be that drivers problem, or a lack of consideration for others. How much sense do you need to have to show other drivers a little consideration and politeness?

Speaking of consideration think I am a little bit off topic .

jimmy
 
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Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Preramble: The original post was about cargo vans stopping at scales. Somehow it evolved into this, which is probably a good thing. To complicate matters further, I have introduced quotes from two different posters. Please try to follow my train of thought. I wish you luck!

I have no problem with educating the public I draw the line at testing on such things when there is no direct involvement. If I read right your thought is it would make roads safer. That is why I pointed out things like CPR testing it would make life in general better but reqiuring it is anorher thing altogether. Heck public healthcare might saves lifes but that does.not make it the right thing to do.
Xiggi makes a great point, where do you draw the line? Why not CPR or general first aid? The chances of Mr. and/or Mrs. John Q. Public encountering a medical emergency on the road are far greater than them coming across a HAZMAT situation.

And yes I am one who would say for me taking a cdl test accomplished nothing other than putting a few dollars in the states pockets and much more to a private testing facility.
On this one I disagree! I got grandfathered in to this whole CDL stuff and I wasn't even being close to becoming a grandfather at the time. While I didn't have to take a class A road test over, I did take written tests for every endorsement other than School Bus. The prospect of taking these tests prompted me to do some studying, which was a good thing and requiring a written basic knowledge test for all drivers every so often would also be a good thing.

Some won't, some will.
Because while it won't be 100% effective and help 100% of the people who take the test, just the same as it's not 100% effective currently, it will help a lot of people learn something they otherwise would not know. Because having information is by and large generally speaking for the most part better than not having it.
I agree, but as Xiggi pointed out, where do you draw the line? I personally believe anyone granted a driver's license should be able to change a tire and safely jump start a car (at least Minnesota residents). Knowledge is good. More knowledge is even gooder!

The regular operator's license stresses rules of the road, red-green-yellow, what the different straight and squiggly lines mean. The CDL test stresses safety, such as the importance of a pre-trip, the importance of dealing with emergencies, of concentrating on driving while driving. It changes the mindset of the driver who takes the test.

Why not incorporate some basic things like a simple pre-trip? Countless times I have read questions in my local newspaper to the likes of Click and Clack and the local automotive guru: I'm planning a trip to Mount Rushmore this summer, what should I do to prepare my car for this 550 mile voyage? To my way of thinking, the same freaking way you would prepare your car for your boring, every day trip to work! What's the difference? Okay, I'll give you math nerds and anal retentives 25 miles one way, 50 miles round trip. Just to be generous, I'll add 5 miles round trip for lunches.

The HAZMAT test takes that further and stresses the importance of the trucks that are carrying materials which post an unreasonable risk to the public and the environment. I cannot even fathom how being ignorant of that stuff is preferable to being aware of it.
I agree, but again, how often does the average driver encounter a HAZMAT situation where this knowledge would be necessary? Every state's written drivers exam has different. Minnesota might ask how to properly jump start a car. West Virgina might ask how to jump your sibling or cousin. Maybe a national drivers license test, similar to the CDL might be the answer. I can see it now: ObamaCar.

Epilogue: Wow! This is just like a Quinn/Martin Production. It has a preamble, a main story (which I failed to break into chapters) and an epilogue.

Oops. The epilogue has to close the story and tie all the loose ends together: The OP ran a scale in his VAN and collided with a truck carrying HAZMAT exiting
the scale. The OP was clueless about the resulting mess and was not knowledgeable about basic first aid to care for his injuries and died as a result of drinking the liquid spilled forth from the clearly placarded truck containing corrosive material. THE END!
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I agree, but again, how often does the average driver encounter a HAZMAT situation where this knowledge would be necessary?
Every time they encounter a placarded vehicle on the road.
 

Opel2010

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
South Dakota has recently change their signage to read: all vehicles over 8000 pounds GVWR or maybe it's 6000 pounds,

Been there few days ago, it's not GVWR but GVW, and they got a scale on fwy... and it's 8000.

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cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Moot: what a tragic epilogue - and you forgot to mention that it could have been averted by practicing the Drinking From A Placarded [sorry: Clearly Placarded!] Truck Containing Corrosive Material Drill.
Some goobers just never learn, sigh.

:rolleyes:
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Then there are the goobers who forget what they've learned :eek: So: do hazmat placarded trucks still have to stop at railroad crossings, if it doesn't say 'exempt'?
I ask because I never see it happen - did the rules change since I dropped the endorsement?
:confused:
 

purgoose10

Veteran Expediter
Then there are the goobers who forget what they've learned :eek: So: do hazmat placarded trucks still have to stop at railroad crossings, if it doesn't say 'exempt'?
I ask because I never see it happen - did the rules change since I dropped the endorsement?
:confused:

You don't want to get caught in SC for not stopping at RR crossing with Hazmat onboard. They love those fines. :cool:
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
If people that should know all about HAZMAT are clueless, why force the general public to pass a CDL type HAZMAT test?

To Moot's point, Diane once had occasion to assist a fire department in a small town in using the ERG. The volunteer fire department in that small town does not get many HAZMAT calls but had enough training to at least know what the ERG was. Nevertheless, Diane was more up on it then any of them, and they were glad for it.

I once talked a scale cop out of a wrongful ticket for a HAZMAT paperwork violation because I knew the regs better. There was no violation. The papers were in good order but the scale cop did not know that.
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
There is a tunnel, two barrels, one westbound, one eastbound on I-94 just southwest of downtown Minneapolis. For years going in one direction the tunnel was marked with signage that stated: no vehicles carrying flammable materials allowed. Going the other direction the signage stated: no vehicles carrying hazardous materials allowed. Every chance I got carrying hazmat that wasn't flammable, I went through the side marked: no vehicles carrying flammable material allowed. The signage has since changed, but I still maintain that the people that make and enforce the laws and regulations, for the most part are clueless!
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
... but I still maintain that the people that make and enforce the laws and regulations, for the most part are clueless!

Yes and no. HAZMAT is a tricky topic whatever your level of expertise may be.
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
HAZMAT is a tricky topic whatever your level of expertise may be.
I agree, but it doesn't have to be tricky. I'm sure you and Diane have been through the I-94 tunnel many times. Why was the eastbound barrel off limits to vehicles carrying Hazmat while the westbound barrel was only closed to vehicles carrying flammable material? Plainly worded laws, educated law makers and law enforcement persons would eliminate much of the trickery. If in fact eliminating trickery was an objective.
 
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