Occupy Wall Street?

[layoutshooter]

Change a law that makes it ILLEGAL for me to earn what I need and want? To what? More communist stupidity? What I EARN is mine. How I choose to use it is MY business, not the governments. EVERYONE has the EXACT same chances I have had. What I have is a result of my OWN efforts and stupidity. I WILL keep what I have and will ONLY give to those people, or ideas, that I feel are worthy of the fruits of my labor. THAT is what is known as FREEDOM! Anything else is known as HELL!!

 

[RLENT]

Change a law that makes it LEGAL for me to earn what I need and want? To what? More communist stupidity? What I EARN is mine. How I choose to use it is MY business, not the governments. EVERYONE has the EXACT same chances I have had. What I have is a result of my OWN efforts and stupidity. I WILL keep what I have and will ONLY give to those people, or ideas, that I feel are worthy of the fruits of my labor. THAT is what is known as FREEDOM! Anything else is known as HELL!!

Try understanding what is actually being said and intended .... rather than inserting your own preconceived notions of what that might be .....

 

[clcooper]

we should go back to the way it was when the pyramids were being built .or the Roman Empire.

 

[layoutshooter]

we should go back to the way it was when the pyramids were being built .or the Roman Empire.

Why? What exactly do you mean? I truly do not understand? By the way, just how were the pyramids built? Which school of thought do you believe in?

 

[greg334]

we should go back to the way it was when the pyramids were being built .or the Roman Empire.

Do you actually know what it was like to be an Egyptian or a Roman?

If you want an idea, you took an oath to the leader of that empire and there wasn't any rights given to you by God but by those who led you. You didn't have a right to due process as we used to have nor did you have a right to a lawyer. So pretty much you were screwed.

Layout, even in the soviet union, they didn't really limit one's wages but they did tax the crap out of the person. AND what I think is amazing is this idea that you should be able to do what you want to do because you have the right.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

According to FBI's BAU...a CEO and a psychopath profile almost the same....

 

[clcooper]

Why? What exactly do you mean? I truly do not understand? By the way, just how were the pyramids built? Which school of thought do you believe in?

this is close enough of a answer

If you want an idea, you took an oath to the leader of that empire and there wasn't any rights given to you by God but by those who led you. You didn't have a right to due process as we used to have nor did you have a right to a lawyer. So pretty much you were screwed.

so what is really the differance from then to now .

then Pharaohs, KINGS, Noble Men. today President , Congressman, Big Business.


big business should own everything and the people have to work for them . the houses should be owned by the big business .

just as long as big business makes a profit is all that matters . because the working people dont need a profit they will only use it to keep up with the Jones's . working people dont need to afford to go to the store . they should grow their own food . and they also should walk to work .

"keep the working poor and they will work for you everyday ."

 

[tbubster]

Who gets to decide how much is to much?Who gets to decide what my needs are?Who gets to decide that I have earned enough in my life time?Who gets to decide what I do with MY MONEY?Who gets to decide where I live?Better yet who gets to decide these things for you?If you belive it or not when you want the government to decide these thigs for others there will come a time when someone decides you have more then you need!Is this not the very thing the founding fathers were willing to go to war in order to prevent from happening.

Do any of you really belive that if the protesters get their way,that there would still not be two classes of citizens?The only difference if this were to happen is that YOU have made the DECISION to let someone else decide you belong in the lower class.

Do some of you relize how little one has to make for the government to put you in the top one percent bracket?$380,354
Now I know to alot of people $380,354 is a lot of money.But lets face it $380,354 is not alot of money.Heck as far as the IRS is concerned if you earn $113,799 you are in the top 10% of income earners.In 2007 one had to make $398,000 to be in the top one percent.18,000 more then one has has to make today.

people talk about the money and tax rates from the 70's.Well can any one tell me how many millionaires there were in the usa in the 70's because today there are 10,541,000 in the usa.I have got a feeling that is a tad bit more then in the 70's.It is funny how all the news outlets and the democrats cry about how more and more money goes to the top one percent yet they never talk about how the top one percent has grown and does so each year.

So is this class warfare yes it is.Not only do they not talk about the growing numbers of the one percent they also dont say they have lowerd the earning level for the top one percent.

 

[jaminjim]

.... apart from the fact that's it's one of the Seven Deadly's ?

Wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and glutton

Well you got there, but I don't think that most people today are saying that it is a sin as much as they are saying they want some of somebody else's 'stuff'.

Just because it is (technically) "legal" ..... does not mean it is moral ..... or ethical ......

Absolutely correct. But if I want to accumulate every dollar I can for what ever reason (legal, moral, and ethical)and I do it legally, morally, and ethically, what is wrong with that? At what point does it go from sloth and become greed? (if you are not all consumed by trying to acquire the money)

If I and my fellow citizens pass a law that makes it "legal" to just take jaminjim's "stuff", is that then moral or ethical ?

Nope

How about if we pass laws to our advantage that makes it easier from us to compete with jaminjim, and makes it harder or more difficult .... or even impossible ..... for jim to compete with us at all ?

Nope, wouldn't like that.

How about if I and small group of my friends lobby and pass laws that seeks to do the above, not just to jaminjim ... but to the bulk of society at large ?

Pretty sure I wouldn't like that either. (but it is happening everyday)

 

[jaminjim]

Greed is the love of money,

Well it can be but it is defined this way
greed |grēd|
noun
intense and selfish desire for something, esp. wealth, power, or food.

which we all know is the root of all evil, right?

Nope, but I'm not going to split hairs.

Because it's an aberrant desire

Who sets the standard? You, me, or a committee, who will appoint them? Rich, poor? people who have enough?

[not talking normal ambition and acquisitiveness, but excessive: enough is not enough, need more, more , more]

Again who sets the standard? and not socially acceptable, therefore is generally hidden & furtive. The temptation to cross the line [beyond misleading to outright lying & other illegal behaviors] is greatly increased by the compulsion, which causes great harm to society in general, if not specific individuals. Who may or may not be able to prove, or even be aware of the role played by greed when they are cheated, as by a stockbroker or bank official...
Like adultery, it isn't illegal, but it is wrong nonetheless.

If I do no harm to others then it's not evil or bad.

 

[scottm4211]

Where'd Cheri's post go

 

[cheri1122]

Where'd Cheri's post go

To the thread about the 3 yr old escapee from preschool, where I thought I was when I typed it.
Sorry - got my different debates confused, lol

 

[cheri1122]

Well it can be but it is defined this way
greed |grēd|
noun
intense and selfish desire for something, esp. wealth, power, or food.

Nope, but I'm not going to split hairs. Who sets the standard? You, me, or a committee, who will appoint them? Rich, poor? people who have enough?

Jim, I don't know - that's a question waaaay above 'my pay grade' - but the good news is, there are plenty of people smart enough to figure it out. What's obvy is that allowing people to set their own pay [and CEOs do, 'compensation committees' and 'consultants' nothwithstanding] is how we got to the point where CEO pay went from 42x workers pay in 1960 to the current 344x workers pay [down from the stock bubble high of 2000, when it was 531x workers pay] and that is unjustified insanity.

If I do no harm to others then it's not evil or bad.

The corruption that results from greed [of legislators and morals] is harming society: unemployment, and underemployment extremely stressful to families, following only death and divorce [which can be triggered by unemployment] as the most stressful events in our lives. Stress can tear families apart, make folks behave in uncharacteristically angry ways [sometimes directed at their spouse and children, sometimes at themselves with excessive drinking or drugs to kill the pain] and make people physically sick. And good luck with the mental health and food pantry aid, if one can conquer pride and ask for help: budget cuts have them stretched to their max too.
At the other end of the economic food chain, greed causes harm too: the tax dodges & havens cheat the government of revenue needed to cover it's responsibilities, and services to we, the people have to be reduced or even eliminated.
The insanity of it has to end.

 

[davekc]

I don't know Cheri.
I don't think you are going to fix a thing until people take on some personal responsibility. Everyone wants to start at the top with big money and little effort. When jobs are offered, people either won't relocate to them or it is beneath them to take a lower wage. Easier to ***** about it.
Same with some college grads with high debt. Unemployment is at 5 percent for grads, but when you look at the ones unemployed, there is a clear reason. People getting a degree in teaching, law, fashion design, and advanced basket weaving, are going to struggle to find a spot in the workplace.
Some are educating themselves for something that the demand is limited. I have no clue why they are now surprised?
Not feeling a need to cover their debt.
I am certainly not opposed to helping people that are trying to help themselves.
Maybe the folks that are protesting that they are entitled to what the rich have, might want to spend more time figuring out how the rich got there.
There my penny in the pond.
Blast away.

 

[layoutshooter]

Personal responsibility is frowned upon. People are OWED. Those who have the gumption, drive, or just plain guts to rise above it are punished for succeeding.

Unemployment SHOULD be a wake up call, NOT a bad thing. It SHOULD rally a person to excel on their own. It SHOULD spur one on to greater things. It is NOT a barrier, it is a ladder to success.

 

[davekc]

Personal responsibility is frowned upon. People are OWED. Those who have the gumption, drive, or just plain guts to rise above it are punished for succeeding.

Unemployment SHOULD be a wake up call, NOT a bad thing. It SHOULD rally a person to excel on their own. It SHOULD spur one on to greater things. It is NOT a barrier, it is a ladder to success.

There are some obstacles for some, but I do like the idea Gingrich is pushing. Two years of unemployment, but you must take classes for a career that actually has a demand.
If one elects not to attend, they get nothing.
Help people help themselves. What a concept.

 

[layoutshooter]

There are some obstacles for some, but I do like the idea Gingrich is pushing. Two years of unemployment, but you must take classes for a career that actually has a demand.
If one elects not to attend, they get nothing.
Help people help themselves. What a concept.

Our system is set up for personal failure. IF you chose to go to school when you get laid off you LOSE your unemployment because you are not available for work. Look deep into the welfare system and you will find similar things barring improvement. It is 100% the government making you dependent on them so that you can be controlled. It IS that simple.

 

[greg334]

Dave, it seems when people like Gingrich come up with some ideas, maybe they need to go through the system to understand that it does not work for everyone in all the places in this country.

Recently the congress passed an extension for paying the way to go to school for those effected by the trade imbalance. Some of those happen to be autoworkers who for the most part get a lot of things thrown at them just because. I wonder when this retraining stuff will stop because many of these people who go for this stuff are either not going to pursue a new career with any motivation that they should have or are just robots and following a course of action to have a job and only a job.

I listened to some of these Occupy people here in Detroit the other day (they are sitting right in front a store I went to and one of them struck me as absolutly clueless because she went on and on about what the government needs to do to fix these problem and I had to ask her wouldn't it be better not to pay any taxes and have the government do one thing - defend the country. She was speechless. I saw her again this morning and asked if she had anything to say and she said she could not figure out how we could survive without the government so it doesn't make sense. I had to explain to her and her little group there that the government is the problem and when they get involved, welfare and such leads to things that they are fighting against, not for. I hit her with the "don't take medicare money to pay for obama care - keep government out of my medicare" crap to illustrate the point with government involvement and she finally got what that meant, which she said "old farts a bit of a problem if they don't get it."

 

[davekc]

Dave, it seems when people like Gingrich come up with some ideas, maybe they need to go through the system to understand that it does not work for everyone in all the places in this country.

Recently the congress passed an extension for paying the way to go to school for those effected by the trade imbalance. Some of those happen to be autoworkers who for the most part get a lot of things thrown at them just because. I wonder when this retraining stuff will stop because many of these people who go for this stuff are either not going to pursue a new career with any motivation that they should have or are just robots and following a course of action to have a job and only a job.

I don't know of a plan that would be 100 percent everywhere. But at least it is better than the foolishness we have now. Just passing out checks leads to more of, passing out checks.
Not sure one would have to go "through the system" to figure that out.
Granted it may put them in a job. Maybe even one they don't like. But isn't that better than what we are currently doing?

 

[layoutshooter]

"Granted it may put them in a job. Maybe even one they don't like. But isn't that better than what we are currently doing?"

Where is it written that one must "like" the job they have? Where is it written that one must ONLY take a job where they want it to be?

One MUST take what ever one can find, where ever that may be, to support ones self and/or family. ANYTHING else is pure lazy and should NOT be supported by those who do the right thing and accept responsibility for ones own family and/or life.

Get off your butt, do what or move to where you need to for work, or starve. Not wiling to do that to support your family? LOSE YOUR FAMILY! NOT accepting responsibility is child endangerment. SUCK IT UP! DO WHAT IS RIGHT! MAN or WOMAN UP! Those who provide and/or sacrifice to insure a good life should NOT be saddled with YOUR laziness.