I said - Where is this happening? In never never land?
The last time I looked without the conservative colored glasses on, the financial world has made HUGE profits from TARP and by his freinds in the fed/treasury department.
His cabinet and advisors have more connections to the financial world than I think any other president has ever had.
A select few in financial world, and there's a big difference between keeping his pals at Goldman Sachs happy compared to allowing the small and medium sized businesses to make capital investments and grow their businesses. Why is unemployment still so high??
Well again it isn't a select few but a entire industry. IT isn't just Goldman but a lot of medium companies showing huge profits. The capital is there but many small businesses pose a risk for any bank while medium business have some money coupled with the FACT that there is so much ambiguity, no one seems to want to take any risks.
This answers part of the question - why is unemployment so high.
The other half of the answer has little to do with regulations or taxes, it has to go back to do we want to build a manufacturing base up that includes old standards and methods or do we want to build our economy on other things. The stupidity that people have fell for is that it is regulations and taxes in the past 3 years have caused the problems but it truly is those things that were started in 2000 ... it is just d*mn amazing.
I said - I don't think in any recession EVER have we had the stock market boom and profits amounting to what the government gave to them while unemployment was this high and some industries fell apart.
AND now we are hearing more about a possible QEIII and another bailout bill under the guise of a Jobs Bill. THIS does not seem to be destroying anything other than the dollar and while there is still time to save the dollar, it may be a case of pulling a 180 on everything to shore up his campaign at the last minute.
There's a big difference between govt bailouts and profits. Ask the guys running Solyndra.
Solydra is situation of a a government backed loan not a bailout, nothing more than a loan gone bad. We did the same thing for Ford through the same department - Department of Energy but many seem to think that Ford didn't get a dime of government money.
Again I am talking about handing money to companies to help them out while ignoring many of the causes of the recession, NOT loan guarantees.
Listening to Brenake the other day and Guitner yesterday, they want to see the dollar lose more of its value because of exports, a dangerous and rather stupid thing. They want to collect the tax and tariffs from those exports but don't care where anything comes from. While the EU countries are finally getting smart and figuring out the spending has to stop, we are going down the same stupid path of spending our way out of things.
The point is that no other time in history have we had cooking of the books to make it look like we are out of a recession while the stock market is booming and we have industries falling apart. If we use the indicators of the past, like in 1950, we still are in a recession.
I said - Furthermore the ignorance of the people is just amazing, looking at how a lot of people have their money into the stock market and they don't care anything but the market's gains, they will be reminded in November that even though the unemployment rate is higher than it should be, their 401ks that they have for their retirement in their pathetic lives have been saved by the messiah.
Tell that to the 50-something year old mid-level manager that has been out of work for the past 18 mos and living off that 401K - and being penalized at a 10% rate for doing it. For the others that may still be in the workforce, their company has probably stopped its matching funds and they're treading water in the market. Maybe that's better than CDs that offer a yield of .15% (that's 15/100 of 1%).
Hey no problem -
do not depend on stock markets for any thing that you want to remain stable in your life time. There I told them. Rule number one -
ANY MONEY YOU PUT INTO THE STOCK MARKET HAS TO BE CONSIDERED LOST MONEY
I said - Yes they have, Chavez did more ... a lot more than Castro and we buy his gas - CITGO anyone?
It's a stretch to compare Venezuela and the USA as similar segments of the Western World. But considering the checks and balances we're supposed to have in place, Obama's transgressions have probably been worse. There's no way the EPA and the Dept of Energy should be able to stifle American industry with their autocratic regulations.
Well it is far from a stretch, so you are saying to me that I can't form an argument using Venezuela which is a large economy compared to Castro which was used to begin with?
Got to tell you that Venezuela seems to be a good example compared to castro.
What checks and balances? With a complacent population and congress that reflects that complacency, where is it happening?
Who's fault is it that the EPA and Energy department is out of control?
I'll give you a hint - look in the mirror.
I said - The other thing is, what is worst - abridging our rights or taking over health care?
Really, show me.
I think Bush did more to abridge my rights than Obama ever considered doing. Obama seemed to understand what Bush did and he helped keep the status quo in different issues going. Amazing that people tend to forget that.
I said - True but we are not seeing just a collapse of the system through one man's efforts to "correct" things but an accumulation of things that have snowballed out of control which is the fault of those who held power in the past and the people who supported them. No president can make laws no matter how you or others want to make it out that he does, his limitations are what we allowed him to have and since no president has been a true conservative or libertarian for that matter, they have assumed that they can do pretty much what they want to do and congress goes along with them.
That's what happened during Obama's first two years in office.
Really?
So I don't recall the landslide in congress on voting for Obama care?
Immigration reform has been started and poofed out a couple times so where is the absolute support in congress for Obama?
Carter anyone?
The problem is that the congress did more damage by going along with the president under the Bush administration in the 6 years that the republicans led the congress than Obama has done so far. Everything that he has done and proposed to be done either has had a fight involved or had to do it by some other form - like executive order/policy change.
I said - I honestly think the people do not give a crap - seriously.
I don't see the same amount of outrage with the present situation as I did with the immigration reform. I surely don't see the anger about unemployment or the banking laws that allow banks to foreclose on a home without working with the person - do you?
AND I don't mean the tea party.
OK - ignore the Tea Party if you want to. But maybe it's a good idea to check those election results again from 2010, along with the more recent special elections (like NY 9th district). It's unlikely that the mainstream media will give much coverage to the average man in the street that's fed up with Obama - unless he happens to be at a Tea Party rally, and then he/she is labeled a "nut", "kook fringe" or a nazi. Despite the media's lack of attention, the outrate is there and it's intense - and most public concern polls reflect this concern with the economy and jobs, with illegal immigration way down the list.
Well twisting my words again.
I didn't say I'm ignore the tea party I said that it wasn't the outrage that should be there in the entire country - remember that during the first three years of the depression there were rallies and protests about Hoover and his policies. The tea party and the gains in 2010 are not what should be, but a step in the right direction. I don't think the country as a whole would follow the tea party because of some of the twisted ideology behind some of the people near the top but the idea behind it - outrage - seems to be the point I am making ... and there is none.
Here is part of the problem I have with a few of you over the Occupy Wallstreet thing - a lot of those do not like Obama and have said that he is part of the problem because he does not get what they want. Many bash them without listening to their message which may be as twisted as those who think we can legislate people's behaviors or their life style - so I suggest if you want to see some Obama hatred, go there first.
I said - Seriously??
Once mighty and vibrant American?
I don't know about what world you live in but in mine we were not as mighty as we were once and we haven't been vibrant in my lifetime.
I think the protesters are not kind to him either.
Too bad that you feel that way - there's a lot of people that would disagree with that worldview. For those that think that things have been so bad the past few years, I suggest they talk to somebody that grew up in the depression and/or fought in WW2. They could probably explain more clearly the differences between vibrant and stagnant, and what a real war that threatens our very existance is like.
I have no choice but to feel that way.
I seen the demise of my country in 1968, when people were protesting and with the change in the social fabric of this country took a turn for the worst. Furthermore I seen it with the hatred of one president being replaced with the same level of hatred of another. In other words we have become a pathetic country because of the political divide and the complacency of the people.
I do not believe that we have even a measurable percentage of fortitude on our political front as we had in the 20's or 30's. In the 50's still there was some but nothing today.
I don't believe that someone in their 80's can explain the difference. Honestly most of them today don't know what it was like to be paid in cash or try to support a family in a depression. Most of them were kids during the depression and didn't have to deal with feeding a family, that came later. Those who can explain the difference are long past and as sad as it sounds, the lessons we can learn are from those who see another path that we must return to.
I mentioned, maybe in this thread or another about Ken Burn's prohibition series, I recommend watching the first part of it to see what the dry movement did and how it got laws passed and think about this time when we need less government and more sanity in politics without the BS.
