Obama follows Constitution on Syria

wvcourier

Expert Expediter
This is the beginning of the end of the United States. This will be the excuse that the UN will eventually need to invade the US. That and the near financial collapse? I wonder how expeditors will fare as this happens? Will the customers pay the very much extra fuel surcharges? Or hazardous pay? Maybe they will still need us?

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moose

Veteran Expediter
After advocating
i did no avocate for nothing,this is an open forum discussion among friends with different opinions on current affairs, which ever we say here will have nil to zero effects on US policy. which i cannot say about the phone calls i made in last few days to my representatives, and hope others did as well.
that the United States engage in military intervention
this is NOT what i said. a deceleration of a no fly zone works in the past without any military intervention, the enforcement of which, if needed, will, question is do we have a president with presidential balls, or a one that hide behind congress walls.
(ie. war)
you said it, not me. in fact, as posted here a few times before, we MUST prevent this from escalating into an all out war
with Israel's next door neighbor,
again, YOU are the one to make it an Israeli problem, when, if you would have bothered to read my posts, i made it clear that this is an American problem.
please do remind me once again just how it is that Israel is fighting our wars for us, like you once claimed ...
still claiming. as we argued here in the past, and agreed to disagree. you claim that they hate us because we help Israel, while i claim that they hate us because we are not them. simple as that.

Sure seems to be the other way around to me ...
agreed, to you, but not to me.


Iran is a signatory to the NPT and has it's nuclear facilities under 24/7/365 monitoring by the IAEA
and you trust them to exposed all of Iran's weaponry?
(I sure wish I could say the same for Israel)
and i wish for the day that Israel will no more face an enemy that is dedicated to it's elimination.until that day comes Israel face immediate life threatening challenges, and should be allowed to do what it takes to secure it's survival.

As such, Iran has the right to develop nuclear energy for peaceful purposes ...
i'm not as naive to think they will stop with just that. why on earth will they need more energy? they are seated on the worlds energy reserve. this is not about peaceful, this is about the eliminations of other country's, US included, as they repeatedly said. and are still, as of this week saying. can you imagine US options if Iran and Assad already have nuke capability's today? will Obama even have a congress to hide behind? or will Iran tell him how to act?
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
i did no avocate for nothing, this is an open forum discussion among friends with different opinions on current affairs, which ever we say here will have nil to zero effects on US policy.
Of course you are advocating for military intervention - violating a country's sovereignty by controlling and/or invading the airspace of it's sovereign territory (ie a no-fly zone) is an act of military intervention, if not also military aggression.

this is NOT what i said. a deceleration of a no fly zone works in the past without any military intervention, the enforcement of which, if needed, will, question is do we have a president with presidential balls, or a one that hide behind congress walls.
Please tell me you are not so foolish as to believe that unilaterally declaring and enforcing a no-fly zone over a sovereign nation's territory is somehow a non-military action ...

you said it, not me. in fact, as posted here a few times before, we MUST prevent this from escalating into an all out war
Dude,

It already is an all-out war - between the Assad regime and those fighting against it. That's why there are over 100,000 people dead so far.

FWIW, the way to stop it from escalating is to avoid adding additional violence - ours - to the conflict ...

again, YOU are the one to make it an Israeli problem, when, if you would have bothered to read my posts, i made it clear that this is an American problem.
ROTFLMAO ... Assad is largely an Israeli problem - not an American problem ... since, among other things, Israel is occupying Syrian territory militarily through the use of force.

The problem we Americans have (among others) is an "Obama mouth" problem ... not an Assad problem ...

Efforts on the part of various individuals to make this an American problem are fairly transparent I think ... it's starting to look more and more like all the usual suspects ...

still claiming. as we argued here in the past, and agreed to disagree. you claim that they hate us because we help Israel, while i claim that they hate us because we are not them. simple as that.
No - I claim that part of why they hate is that the US is so one-sided with support of Israel and is not an "honest broker" in relations between the Israeli's and the Palestinians, and the remainder of the Arab/Islamic world.

agreed, to you, but not to me.
I ain't the only one ...

and you trust them to exposed all of Iran's weaponry?
I trust them to monitor Iran's nuclear facilities for diversion from permitted to non-permitted uses (ie weapons) ...

and i wish for the day that Israel will no more face an enemy that is dedicated to it's elimination.until that day comes Israel face immediate life threatening challenges, and should be allowed to do what it takes to secure it's survival.
Israel, to a large degree, lies in a bed of it's very own making ...

Whether it survives will be dependent on how it conducts itself going forward.

i'm not as naive to think they will stop with just that.
Well, thus far they haven't went beyond it - unlike Israel - which (according to M. Vanunu) has, and which refuses to even admit that it possesses nuclear weapons, allow international inspections, or state a clear nuclear policy ...

why on earth will they need more energy? they are seated on the worlds energy reserve.
Sovereign nations are not required to plead - hat in hand - before some arrogant, authoritarian pizz-ant body to justify their energy needs or choices ...

The Iranians have roughly less than 100 years of petroleum production (at 2006 rates) if no new sources of oil are found.

If they desire to shift towards nuclear energy, and preserve their petroleum resources as much as possible, that is certainly their right - a right which is guaranteed under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

this is not about peaceful, this is about the eliminations of other country's, US included, as they repeatedly said. and are still, as of this week saying.
Call me when you can read/speak Farsi fluently ...

can you imagine US options if Iran and Assad already have nuke capability's today?
Yes - it's largely the same option we have with Russia, China, UK, France, India, Pakistan, North Korea, and Israel: learn to get along with each other in a peaceful and respectful manner ... or risk perishing ...

will Obama even have a congress to hide behind? or will Iran tell him how to act?
You mean kinda like how Israel threatened Henry Kissinger and Richard Nixon with the use of nuclear weapons on the third day of the 1973 Yom Kippur War, successfully blackmailing the White House to airlift much needed supplies, as detailed in "The Sampson Option" by Seymour Hersh ?

The Sampson Option: Israel's Nuclear Arsenal & American Foreign Policy
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
It appears that the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) has weighed in after determining that it is necessary that we act on Syria:

AIPAC on board
 

Maverick

Seasoned Expediter
Where is the evidence of gassing ones own people? Did our fearless leaders not already fool us on that one? Extensive search leads this researcher with absolutely no solid evidence this attack was carried out as stated. Not ONE morsel of tangible evidence.

White House Document ?Proving? Syria?s Guilt Doesn?t Pass Smell Test | This Can't Be Happening!

How many times can these people drag out the same old tired lines? Incubator babies thrown on the floor (Iraq lie) WMD, more lies.....and it goes on and on. Then! Following the revelations of these lies (and admittance thereof) the American people go on to believe the next one?

The first casualty of war is truth. We have attacked most every nation of the middle east, one by one, all based on bull roar, later admitted.

Unbelievable.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
The French have released a declassified 9-page document of evidence that Assad's forces carried out the "massive and coordinated" chemical attack on its civilian population. One small problem with it, though, it doesn't contain any actual evidence. It cites lots and lots of evidence, but it never presents any of it. It is essentially nine pages of accusations and assumptions based on who knows what. But it ain't evidence of anything. It is clear that sarin gas was used, we know that from multiple reliable sources, but there is no evidence of any kind as to who used it. None.

French and US "intelligence" experts say the rebels have no way to make or deploy sarin gas, therefore is must have been the Assad government who did it. Cracker Jack analysis, that one. The fact is it takes 4 chemicals to make sarin gas, all of which have legitimate industrial, commercial or household uses. There are import/export controls of the chemicals in most countries, but the chemicals are easy to buy, and easy to mix.

The fact that sarin was used is not evidence of who used it. Who has the most to gain from using it? Assad? The US? Al Qaeda? ....Israel?
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I for one am certainly relieved to know that our government has never engaged in exposing it's citizenry to radiation or biomedical experiments. Scuse me while I blow my noses.
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Scuse me while I blow my noses.

donkahuna2noses.jpg
 

Maverick

Seasoned Expediter

This article surely paints a possible scenario. What it more contained for me, is the fact of all the weapons brought in and cui bono, who benefits? The other stark point in this piece was the whole crux of the matter.....wars are not usually (especially now a days) a result of some crises event. Rather, the war is planned well in advance, and the event/excuse to invade is then created.

Global Research will often unwittingly misdirect knowing there is no consequence. Directing this piece toward the USA may be shielding the actually perpetrators. Go down the USA rabbit hole, where nothing can actually be proven......rabbit goes out the back entrance, and into the clear. Not saying it's true in this case, but possible, and goes toward Turtle's point.

Global Research also reveals a lot of truth IMV and is a great source for triangulation research, or comparing this, with that....something which must be done today for true investigation.
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Absolutely hilarious:

This was in the New York Times last night:

Administration officials said the influential pro-Israel lobby group Aipac was already at work pressing for military action against the government of Mr. Assad, fearing that if Syria escapes American retribution for its use of chemical weapons, Iran might be emboldened in the future to attack Israel. In the House, the majority leader, Eric Cantor of Virginia, the only Jewish Republican in Congress, has long worked to challenge Democrats’ traditional base among Jews.

One administration official, who, like others, declined to be identified discussing White House strategy, called Aipac “the 800-pound gorilla in the room,” and said its allies in Congress had to be saying, “If the White House is not capable of enforcing this red line” against the catastrophic use of chemical weapons, “we’re in trouble.”


It was originally in this story. Now it’s gone. Its only remnant is in the Times search engine. If you put in “gorilla,” it points you to this story. But the gorilla ain’t there.
Full article:

Times Reports White House Calls AIPAC ?800 Pound Gorilla? Then Quickly Deletes it. Except Boston Globe Still Runs Original Story. | MJ Rosenberg
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter

An update, and what really happened.
Here's the article that contains the "missing" quote.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/02/world/middleeast/syria.html?ref=global-home

Here's the explanation and how it all went down, including the (somewhat understandable) knee-jerk misunderstanding of Rosenberg.
The Case of the New York Times' Missing AIPAC 'Gorilla' Has an Easy Answer - Connor Simpson - The Atlantic Wire
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
From the second link you posted:

But the whole thing is actually a misunderstanding. In fact, the quote still lives on the Times website, but in a different article. It appears the media hounds never did a full search of the Times website to find it. After a morning of silence, Times spokesperson Eileen Murphy offered this explanation in an emailed statement to Byers just after lunchtime. It was removed to prevent redundancies:
... just a (big) misunderstanding ... that's all ...

Good to know that the NYT has ol' Winston Smith on the job over there at the Ministry of Truth ...

ROTFLMAO ...
 

Maverick

Seasoned Expediter
From the second link you posted:


... just a (big) misunderstanding ... that's all ...

Good to know that the NYT has ol' Winston Smith on the job over there at the Ministry of Truth ...

ROTFLMAO ...

Hey! :mad:

The NYT has the best cartoon section in all America. It starts on the first page....ends on the last.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
The quote was pulled from one article and put into another. It happens all the time with electronic media. I mean, every day that stuff happens at countless Web sites of news media, especially those with print editions, where stories are constantly updated, edited and rewritten. The problem in this instance is someone took it upon themselves to assume the reason for the edit, and then reported it, instead of doing their due diligence. This is literally much ado about nothing.
 
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