NJ Gov Christie to be probed.

[cheri1122]

We repeatedly are hearing the Schulz/Maddow line that businesses are being buried in money to bribe them to bring their businesses to town. Tax abatements and deferrals are not at all the same as throwing open the vault and pushing taxpayer money into their limos. Taxpayer money is not going to the businesses. The businesses are not paying taxes, for a period of time, and then they are. Definitely an advantage for the business but not a lot of taxpayer money going to the business. The taxes the business doesn't pay are offset by the taxes the employees pay and the new jobs created. Those employees also buy groceries, utilities and many other things that pay into the economy. It may or may not completely offset but it isn't the train wreck Air America suggests.

I don't know what Air America or Schultz/Maddow say, because I don't listen to radio or watch tv - I read various news sources. Maybe they do, too, because the info is out there.
It's not just deferred and/or abated taxes that state & local governments offer, it's land, zoning, infrastructure, utilities, and in some cases, even more.
If the business hires enough locals at wages that allow the funds to be offset, it's a good deal. But how often does that happen? We don't know, do we? What we do know is that when the business is WalMart, the workers end up sucking more from the government in the form of food stamps and Medicare, because the 'jobs!' that are touted are part time and low wage.
Since we never get any follow up articles on how the deals worked out after enough time has passed to determine it, I'm pretty sure what the answer is: not as good for the taxpayers or the workers as for the business, and the politicians who agree to the extortion.

 

[davekc]

I don't know what Air America or Schultz/Maddow say, because I don't listen to radio or watch tv - I read various news sources. Maybe they do, too, because the info is out there.
It's not just deferred and/or abated taxes that state & local governments offer, it's land, zoning, infrastructure, utilities, and in some cases, even more.
If the business hires enough locals at wages that allow the funds to be offset, it's a good deal. But how often does that happen? We don't know, do we? What we do know is that when the business is WalMart, the workers end up sucking more from the government in the form of food stamps and Medicare, because the 'jobs!' that are touted are part time and low wage.
Since we never get any follow up articles on how the deals worked out after enough time has passed to determine it, I'm pretty sure what the answer is: not as good for the taxpayers or the workers as for the business, and the politicians who agree to the extortion.

Walmart actually has pretty decent insurance. I believe that is extended to many part-timers as well. Outside of that, if they are providing some wages, isn't that better than no wages?
It is true some are supplementing their income with food stamps, but I would think they would be drawing more benefits if Walmart wasn't there and they just stayed unemployed.
I wouldn't get blinded by just what cashiers and stockers make. Outside of those employees, managers, drivers, and a whole list of employee positions do well.

 

[xiggi]

I don't know what Air America or Schultz/Maddow say, because I don't listen to radio or watch tv - I read various news sources. Maybe they do, too, because the info is out there.
It's not just deferred and/or abated taxes that state & local governments offer, it's land, zoning, infrastructure, utilities, and in some cases, even more.
If the business hires enough locals at wages that allow the funds to be offset, it's a good deal. But how often does that happen? We don't know, do we? What we do know is that when the business is WalMart, the workers end up sucking more from the government in the form of food stamps and Medicare, because the 'jobs!' that are touted are part time and low wage.
Since we never get any follow up articles on how the deals worked out after enough time has passed to determine it, I'm pretty sure what the answer is: not as good for the taxpayers or the workers as for the business, and the politicians who agree to the extortion.

Walmart is no different than most retail jobs its just in vogue to use their name.

sent from my Fisher Price - ABC123

 

[cheri1122]

If it's in vogue to use WM as an example, it's because they are the largest employer, and the absolute masters of squeezing every penny of profit from every possible source.
Dave: I don't know about the insurance [except the 'dead peasants' one], but if there's a deductible, it can't be good for people who can't pay the bills on what they earn. Yes, the managers make more, but there's one for several hundred workers, and they are pressured by corporate to keep labor costs down to the point that working there can be absolute hell. [I worked at Sam's Club, and saw some of their tactics firsthand]. One of the worst is using flexible scheduling: workers don't have a 'regular' schedule, which makes it hard to arrange for child care, and impossible to take classes or work another part time job. How can they ever 'get ahead'?
And the drivers make good money, but they're not local hires, so no tax benefit for the payout.
It would be nice if people were more interested in promoting better pay [which benefits us all, as taxes paid and products & services bought increase] instead of defending the ways to keep people who work for a living from improving their lives.
I'd like to see more people rewarded for working, at least with the opportunity to go back to school [vocational or college], instead of trapped in a dead end job that doesn't even cover basic living expenses. While the corporations that employ them enjoy serious profits, and leave the taxpayers holding the bag.

 

[davekc]

If it's in vogue to use WM as an example, it's because they are the largest employer, and the absolute masters of squeezing every penny of profit from every possible source.
Dave: I don't know about the insurance [except the 'dead peasants' one], but if there's a deductible, it can't be good for people who can't pay the bills on what they earn. Yes, the managers make more, but there's one for several hundred workers, and they are pressured by corporate to keep labor costs down to the point that working there can be absolute hell. [I worked at Sam's Club, and saw some of their tactics firsthand]. One of the worst is using flexible scheduling: workers don't have a 'regular' schedule, which makes it hard to arrange for child care, and impossible to take classes or work another part time job. How can they ever 'get ahead'?
And the drivers make good money, but they're not local hires, so no tax benefit for the payout.
It would be nice if people were more interested in promoting better pay [which benefits us all, as taxes paid and products & services bought increase] instead of defending the ways to keep people who work for a living from improving their lives.
I'd like to see more people rewarded for working, at least with the opportunity to go back to school [vocational or college], instead of trapped in a dead end job that doesn't even cover basic living expenses. While the corporations that employ them enjoy serious profits, and leave the taxpayers holding the bag.

I think the taxpayers would be holding a larger "bag" if they weren't there. As mentioned, some money is better than no money. Even the drivers which are better paid, have to come from somewhere. They are "local" somewhere are they not? WM also creates quite a few jobs through vendors that service their stores. Everything from groceries to vending are all sourced from outside vendors. Whether you want to admit it or not, they do create employment directly and indirectly.
Even though they do create part-time jobs, I am also mindful that they provide goods at a much lower price than other places.
That success directly benefits the lower income folks as they would be traveling to other areas and likely paying more for many products.
I would say they do benefit most areas when they come in. There are exceptions of course but most places spend big money in planning and zoning before they come in and find they do benefit the community at large.

 

[LDB]

Is it perfect? No. Is it the nightmare the liberals claim? Also no. If it were a losing proposition it wouldn't be repeated regularly. It must have an over 50% success rate or states and localities wouldn't solicit additional businesses.

 

[xiggi]

If it's in vogue to use WM as an example, it's because they are the largest employer, and the absolute masters of squeezing every penny of profit from every possible source.
Dave: I don't know about the insurance [except the 'dead peasants' one], but if there's a deductible, it can't be good for people who can't pay the bills on what they earn. Yes, the managers make more, but there's one for several hundred workers, and they are pressured by corporate to keep labor costs down to the point that working there can be absolute hell. [I worked at Sam's Club, and saw some of their tactics firsthand]. One of the worst is using flexible scheduling: workers don't have a 'regular' schedule, which makes it hard to arrange for child care, and impossible to take classes or work another part time job. How can they ever 'get ahead'?
And the drivers make good money, but they're not local hires, so no tax benefit for the payout.
It would be nice if people were more interested in promoting better pay [which benefits us all, as taxes paid and products & services bought increase] instead of defending the ways to keep people who work for a living from improving their lives.
I'd like to see more people rewarded for working, at least with the opportunity to go back to school [vocational or college], instead of trapped in a dead end job that doesn't even cover basic living expenses. While the corporations that employ them enjoy serious profits, and leave the taxpayers holding the bag.

Cheri your position that people are trapped in dead end jobs directly contradicts my feelings. People are only trapped by their own limitations not some artificial barrier you seem to envision.

sent from my Fisher Price - ABC123

 

[layoutshooter]

Mr. Edison said it best:

"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work."

 

[xiggi]

A great article that can easily relate to the dead end job subject.

http://success.com/article/maximum-leadership-the-if-factor

sent from my Fisher Price - ABC123

 

[davekc]

Most often you will hear a long list of "I don't wannas". But in this case, Walmart could be a opportunity. Since many wouldn't look at it as a life long career, it is a vehicle to raise enough money to relocate to an area that does have employment. Wherever that might be.
That kills that concept of "there are no jobs where I live so I can't work".

 

[layoutshooter]

Most often you will hear a long list of "I don't wannas". But in this case, Walmart could be a opportunity. Since many wouldn't look at it as a life long career, it is a vehicle to raise enough money to relocate to an area that does have employment. Wherever that might be.
That kills that concept of "there are no jobs where I live so I can't work".

That would require accepting responsibility for one's self. Both in success and in failure. It would require getting rid of the "I am owed" attitude and taking action to improve your own lot in life. There in lies the rub. Far too many don't WANT to improve themselves. After all if you never try you cannot fail. It has become FAR too easy to wallow in one's misery. Success requires effort.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Most often you will hear a long list of "I don't wannas". But in this case, Walmart could be a opportunity. Since many wouldn't look at it as a life long career, it is a vehicle to raise enough money to relocate to an area that does have employment. Wherever that might be.
That kills that concept of "there are no jobs where I live so I can't work".

The only flaw with the Walmart/move idea is that a person also has to live on that money. So saving up is a pipe dream.

 

[layoutshooter]

The only flaw with the Walmart/move idea is that a person also has to live on that money. So saving up is a pipe dream.

Except that many have done it in the past, are doing it now, and will continue to do so in the future. They have done it when times were far worse than they are now, and when they were better.

The point is, one has to WANT to improve and be willing to do something to change. Most who are "stuck" in dead end jobs are not willing to do that. For what ever reason they choose to remain "stuck" and blame everyone, and everything else, for what is "happening" to them, EXCEPT, the person that looks back at them from the mirror.

 

[davekc]

The only flaw with the Walmart/move idea is that a person also has to live on that money. So saving up is a pipe dream.

I am under no illusion that is would be easy, but certainly not impossible. If so, then we would have to assume that everyone working at Wal-Mart is there for life. Not buying that for a minute.
I know several people that have worked there for a period of time and moved on to better things.

 

[layoutshooter]

I am under no illusion that is would be easy, but certainly not impossible. If so, then we would have to assume that everyone working at Wal-Mart is there for life. Not buying that for a minute.
I know several people that have worked there for a period of time and moved on to better things.

Who ever said life was easy anyway? Life can be, VERY hard. The more HARD things that people overcome the stronger they become. If every thing was easy Mankind would have never advanced. The lessons learned from failure and overcoming those failures are FAR more valuable than those learned from success. Instead of looking at bad, hard things, as an obstacle, one should look at them as an opportunity to excel.

 

[cheri1122]

Most often you will hear a long list of "I don't wannas". But in this case, Walmart could be a opportunity. Since many wouldn't look at it as a life long career, it is a vehicle to raise enough money to relocate to an area that does have employment. Wherever that might be.
That kills that concept of "there are no jobs where I live so I can't work".

Like the Hawk says, when you don't have enough, saving money is flat out impossible. And relocating? You guys see things from a 'guy' perspective - childcare doesn't seem to factor into it. [Must be nice!] But the majority of working poor are mothers, and single or married, childcare is their responsibility. Finding reliable and trustworthy childcare is like looking for gold in a Cracker Jack box - and that's in the place where family and friends live! How they're supposed to accomplish it in a place where they don't know anyone is just beyond me - and them, too.
And if, by some miracle, they find childcare? Better have a child that never gets sick, because you can't send them to someone else, but if you stay home with them, there goes your job.

 

[layoutshooter]

Instead of looking for reasons to fail look for ways to succeed. Can't find a job where you live? Move to where they are. No skills, find a way to get them. There is always a way. I find it amazing the numbers of young, healthy people out of work or working dead end jobs. They complain that they are being held back, can't get ahead. Then I look at this business alone. People in their 50's, or older, starting a business and doing well.

Rule one, no one is owed a job.
Rule two, no one is owed a living.
Rule three, no one is responsible for you, other than you.
Rule four, you are entitled to what you earn.
Rule five, you reap what you sow.

Everyone, including everyone in here, is the sum of their life's decisions. One makes choices, those choices, one after the other, lead us to where you are today. Don't like where you are? Look in the mirror. Not moving ahead? Look in the mirror. The VAST majority of your problems/successes are the result of what that person who is staring back from that mirror is the person responsible for all of it.

People can choose to look at the uninspired, the under achievers and say how bad things are. OR. People can start looking for the winners, the achievers, of all ages, and TRY to figure out how THEY did it and strive to do the same.

Use THIS girl as the example:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/karsten...illion-in-sales-for-15-year-old-entrepreneur/

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Instead of looking for reasons to fail look for ways to succeed. Can't find a job where you live? Move to where they are. No skills, find a way to get them. There is always a way. I find it amazing the numbers of young, healthy people out of work or working dead end jobs. They complain that they are being held back, can't get ahead. Then I look at this business alone. People in their 50's, or older, starting a business and doing well.

Rule one, no one is owed a job.
Rule two, no one is owed a living.
Rule three, no one is responsible for you, other than you.
Rule four, you are entitled to what you earn.
Rule five, you reap what you sow.

Everyone, including everyone in here, is the sum of their life's decisions. One makes choices, those choices, one after the other, lead us to where you are today. Don't like where you are? Look in the mirror. Not moving ahead? Look in the mirror. The VAST majority of your problems/successes are the result of what that person who is staring back from that mirror is the person responsible for all of it.

People can choose to look at the uninspired, the under achievers and say how bad things are. OR. People can start looking for the winners, the achievers, of all ages, and TRY to figure out how THEY did it and strive to do the same.

Use THIS girl as the example:

Over $1 Million In Sales For The 15-Year-Old Entrepreneur Behind Fish Flops - Forbes

Thank you for the lecture, Reverend Happyplace!

 

[layoutshooter]

Thank you for the lecture, Reverend Happyplace!

Yeah, it is just SO much better to look up to the failures and NEVER accept responsibility for your own life. Yeah, your right. That will make it ALL better.



Looking for positive role models and TRYING to succeed is really HARD WORK. Much better to just become as mediocre as possible and get by. If you fail, it's OK, those who DO well will cover your slack.

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Yeah, it is just SO much better to look up to the failures and NEVER accept responsibility for your own life. Yeah, your right. That will make it ALL better.



Looking for positive role models and TRYING to succeed is really HARD WORK. Much better to just become as mediocre as possible and get by. If you fail, it's OK, those who DO well will cover your slack.

Never said it was impossible. It's just unlikely. If none of the cards are falling your way, no matter how hard you're trying, you're not likely to make it.

This isn't the 30s depression, where the man could move to where the jobs are, while the wife takes care of the toddlers. This is where men and women don't stay together, for a large part, to raise what they produce. So there goes one aspect... two people doing the job of two people vs one person trying to do the job of two people.

Add to that what society drives home to struggling parents... it's ok if you don't stay together, we'll take care of the mother without you. Also, you don't have to work so hard; we'll take up the slack with food stamps.

So what do you have, now vs the 1930s? You have a woman raising her kids vs both parents. The man from the 30s likely has skills; or at the very least, muscle. The woman today? Register? You had a society in the 30s that gave very little... maybe a soup kitchen or some free fruit. Today, a government that has gone bankrupt dishing out anti-hope... foodstamps, welfare, student loans, Obamacare.

Could a two parent family today make a move like the 1930s family did in Grapes of Wrath (bigtime propaganda movie)? Possibly. But that doesn't even guarantee they'll make it when they get there. So that leaves the single mother with NO family help, working at Walmart. She can have hope up the wazoo, but she ain't got a pot to pizz in. And that's not helping her get to a better spot.

This only has to do with responsibility for one's own life IF all the other cards fall into place. You're looking at things in black and white again, whereas life is a gray thing. And you know what they say... life happens while you're busy making other plans.