Michigan illegally harassing CVs?

[AMonger]

Ok there are thousands of cops and military for those of you that think most or all cops and military are corrupt ,crimminal , bad where are the documents and figures ? show me the numbers and documents to prove that. You want to bad mouth cops and the military again show me the proof. I am from the show me state and on this topic I say show me the proof

I don't know what numbers or stats exist or where to find them, but here's some light reading for you. Let me know how many more you want. I'll supply them.

Cop murders man in cold blood while on duty: Pro Libertate: Resistance

Criminals with badges: Pro Libertate: "Criminals With Badges": Denver's Militarized Police

Oklahoma stormtrooper assaults paramedic: Trooper, Paramedic Fight Caught on Tape - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

Various articles on the militarization of police: Pro Libertate: police militarization

Pro Libertate: Addicted to the Warfare State

Pro Libertate: Don't Call The Police: They'll Sue You

More POLICE STATE 'Fun' - Brett Darrow - Zimbio

STLtoday - Officer in trouble over motorist's video in South County

Again: NEVER Call the Police for “Help” « LewRockwell.com Blog

Once Again: NEVER Call the Police for “Help” « LewRockwell.com Blog

The police's cardinal rule: mundanes must submit: Pro Libertate: The Police State's "Cardinal Rule": The Mundane Must Submit

Pro Libertate: Maywood, RIP: When Police Kill A City

"Do you expect violence here?" "I certainly hope so." Pro Libertate: No Law? No Warrant? No Problem!

 

[bobwg]

I don't know what numbers or stats exist or where to find them, but here's some light reading for you. Let me know how many more you want. I'll supply them.

Cop murders man in cold blood while on duty: Pro Libertate: Resistance

Criminals with badges: Pro Libertate: "Criminals With Badges": Denver's Militarized Police

Oklahoma stormtrooper assaults paramedic: Trooper, Paramedic Fight Caught on Tape - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports |

Various articles on the militarization of police: Pro Libertate: police militarization

Pro Libertate: Addicted to the Warfare State

Pro Libertate: Don't Call The Police: They'll Sue You

More POLICE STATE 'Fun' - Brett Darrow - Zimbio

STLtoday - Officer in trouble over motorist's video in South County

Again: NEVER Call the Police for “Help” « LewRockwell.com Blog

Once Again: NEVER Call the Police for “Help” « LewRockwell.com Blog

The police's cardinal rule: mundanes must submit: Pro Libertate: The Police State's "Cardinal Rule": The Mundane Must Submit

Pro Libertate: Maywood, RIP: When Police Kill A City

"Do you expect violence here?" "I certainly hope so." Pro Libertate: No Law? No Warrant? No Problem!

wow a few examples out of hundreds of thousands of police and military wow does not prove they are all criminals , or what ever bad things you want to say about the group have nice day

 

[Turtle]

wow a few examples out of hundreds of thousands of police and military wow does not prove they are all criminals...

Not only that, but highly biased and skewed reports. I'm familiar with the Everett, WA case, and the Not Guilty verdict for the accused officer reflected what actually happened, and was not at all as the Blog states. The Blog, as these types of Blogs often do, cite opinion and accusation as fact. And because it's on the Internet, people believe it.

 

[AMonger]

wow a few examples out of hundreds of thousands of police and military wow does not prove they are all criminals , or what ever bad things you want to say about the group have nice day

Bob, these are a few examples that I pulled up in 5 or so minutes. I could bury you in them if you want me to keep pulling them up.

There are lots of heroic acts by cops every day by those approximately 800,000 cops in America, and I suspect that will continue. However, you must admit that the nature of policing has changed. Officer Friendly, the peace officer, is dead. He's been succeeded by his demented cousin, Officer Submit-Or-I'll-Kick-Your-***. And boy, does he love his taser. He recognizes no limits on his authoritah, and neither does he recognize the Bill Of Rights. Maybe you don't recognize it because you're too busy waving the flag, or maybe just because you haven't yet been the object of their attention. As comic Dave Chapelle noted, now the cops are beating up white people. We hadn't believed it when it was just black people.

Now, cops arrive, and their first instinct is to put officer safety over the Bill of Rights, which means handcuffing everybody, confiscating every firearm in sight, and tasing anybody who questions them or doesn't react fast enough. Just like congress, we'd be better off firing every police officer in the country, disqualifying them from ever being a cop again, and replacing them with new personnel even if it meant a little disorder until the new guys figure out what they're doing.

The bottom line is, we are THEIR masters, not the other way around. They work for us, but they seem to have forgotten that. You'd never know it.

Did you know that a police K9 is valued greater by the state than a civilian? I can give you examples of that, too. How many do you want? And how many more stories of police misconduct would you like? A hundred? A thousand? And not just routine misconduct, the type that's always gone on and always will because the cops are human and have human frailties, but the kind that demonstrate that the nature of cops has changed and exceeded their commission?

 

[bobwg]

Bob, these are a few examples that I pulled up in 5 or so minutes. I could bury you in them if you want me to keep pulling them up.

There are lots of heroic acts by cops every day by those approximately 800,000 cops in America, and I suspect that will continue. However, you must admit that the nature of policing has changed. Officer Friendly, the peace officer, is dead. He's been succeeded by his demented cousin, Officer Submit-Or-I'll-Kick-Your-***. And boy, does he love his taser. He recognizes no limits on his authoritah, and neither does he recognize the Bill Of Rights. Maybe you don't recognize it because you're too busy waving the flag, or maybe just because you haven't yet been the object of their attention. As comic Dave Chapelle noted, now the cops are beating up white people. We hadn't believed it when it was just black people.

Now, cops arrive, and their first instinct is to put officer safety over the Bill of Rights, which means handcuffing everybody, confiscating every firearm in sight, and tasing anybody who questions them or doesn't react fast enough. Just like congress, we'd be better off firing every police officer in the country, disqualifying them from ever being a cop again, and replacing them with new personnel even if it meant a little disorder until the new guys figure out what they're doing.

The bottom line is, we are THEIR masters, not the other way around. They work for us, but they seem to have forgotten that. You'd never know it.

Did you know that a police K9 is valued greater by the state than a civilian? I can give you examples of that, too. How many do you want? And how many more stories of police misconduct would you like? A hundred? A thousand? And not just routine misconduct, the type that's always gone on and always will because the cops are human and have human frailties, but the kind that demonstrate that the nature of cops has changed and exceeded their commission?

you still loose you did not prove that all cops or military are bad and your so called examples are flawed as Turtle pointed out so you loose

 

[bobwg]

Bob, these are a few examples that I pulled up in 5 or so minutes. I could bury you in them if you want me to keep pulling them up.

There are lots of heroic acts by cops every day by those approximately 800,000 cops in America, and I suspect that will continue. However, you must admit that the nature of policing has changed. Officer Friendly, the peace officer, is dead. He's been succeeded by his demented cousin, Officer Submit-Or-I'll-Kick-Your-***. And boy, does he love his taser. He recognizes no limits on his authoritah, and neither does he recognize the Bill Of Rights. Maybe you don't recognize it because you're too busy waving the flag, or maybe just because you haven't yet been the object of their attention. As comic Dave Chapelle noted, now the cops are beating up white people. We hadn't believed it when it was just black people.

Now, cops arrive, and their first instinct is to put officer safety over the Bill of Rights, which means handcuffing everybody, confiscating every firearm in sight, and tasing anybody who questions them or doesn't react fast enough. Just like congress, we'd be better off firing every police officer in the country, disqualifying them from ever being a cop again, and replacing them with new personnel even if it meant a little disorder until the new guys figure out what they're doing.

The bottom line is, we are THEIR masters, not the other way around. They work for us, but they seem to have forgotten that. You'd never know it.

Did you know that a police K9 is valued greater by the state than a civilian? I can give you examples of that, too. How many do you want? And how many more stories of police misconduct would you like? A hundred? A thousand? And not just routine misconduct, the type that's always gone on and always will because the cops are human and have human frailties, but the kind that demonstrate that the nature of cops has changed and exceeded their commission?

Also what wrong with officer safety? how many cops have been killed just trying to their job like one case officer was going to serve a restraining order and was shot and killed before he got out of his car and you think just because they put cuffs on someone and round up the guns they dont give them back if the person checks out ok and they legally have the guns not stolen or what ever just wonder since you seem to hate cops are you happy when they get killed?

 

[skyraider]

These past several threads seem to be gaining a tone of negativity steming from the fact that someone ( did not pass the physical to become a police officer). Now thats my opinon and I may be wrong, gosh,,i could have been in error?

 

[Turtle]

Rather than do the easy thing, I challenge AMonger to flood us with examples of where cops did their jobs without violating the Bill of Rights, and since there are far more instances of that happening, it shouldn't take more than a few minutes. On the other hand, if you spend a lot of time feeding anger hanging out on "Bad Cop, Bad Cop" Web sites, finding examples of good cops may prove to be too much of a challenge.

When you have a strong passion for something, even a misguided one, it's always easy to find support for your position. In fact, thanks to the Internet, it's often easier to find support for misguided passions than for the truth in context. Whether it's the Learned Elders of Zion, Kosher Tax, 911 conspiracies, Global Warming, Ground Zero, Gay Rights, Muslim terrorists, bad cops and the evils of corn syrup and Canola oil, it's all out there just for the taking, to indoctrinate and/or confirm.

 

[AMonger]

Not only that, but highly biased and skewed reports. I'm familiar with the Everett, WA case, and the Not Guilty verdict for the accused officer reflected what actually happened, and was not at all as the Blog states. The Blog, as these types of Blogs often do, cite opinion and accusation as fact. And because it's on the Internet, people believe it.

Actually, it didn't reflect what actually happened. The jury did, indeed, acquit the murderous officer, but the facts as presented on the site I cited weren't disputed. The jury, though they acquitted him, rejected his claim that he acted in legitimate self-defense. From HeraldNet.com - Local news: Everett officer didn't act in self-defense, jury decides

EVERETT — A Snohomish County jury's verdict on Tuesday against an Everett police officer acquitted of murder may have created more questions than the decision answered.

Jurors on Tuesday found that Everett police officer Troy Meade didn't prove that he shot Niles Meservey in self-defense. Those same jurors on Monday acquitted Meade of second-degree murder and first-degree manslaughter.

The two verdicts seemingly send a mixed message about what jurors believe happened on June 10 outside the Chuckwagon Inn. One lawyer involved with the case suggested the verdicts likely reflected the differing laws governing the legal questions jurors had to answer.

Tuesday's ruling means Meade's legal expenses won't be reimbursed, an option under state law when somebody is acquitted of criminal charges after making a self-defense claim...

Ed Budge, a Seattle attorney well-known for winning multimillion-dollar settlements in police misconduct cases, said he wasn't surprised that the jury acquitted Meade on criminal charges.

Given the dangerous job of a police officer, it's very hard for juries to convict an officer of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt, Budge said.

“Just because he's been cleared of criminal wrongdoing doesn't mean there was no wrongdoing,” Budge said. “He may well have violated Mr. Meservey's constitutional rights” and department policy...

The majority of the jury on Tuesday decided that Meade's shooting of Meservey did not meet the legal definition of self defense.

Under jury instructions, the key question they answered was “Did the defendant, Troy Meade, prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the use of force was lawful?

Meade's defense was based in part on his belief that he was properly using force to defend himself and others.

Meade said he was disappointed by Tuesday's decision but still grateful the jury earlier acquitted him of criminal charges...

In the criminal phase of the trial, the standard was subjective, meaning what Meade perceived was most important. At that stage of the case, jurors also were instructed that actual danger was not necessary to find Meade's actions justified.

Baldock said it was fair to say that the jury gave careful consideration to the difference between what Meade thought he saw and the reality of what unfolded outside the Chuckwagon Inn.

And from the follow up to one of the articles I cited in my earlier post, found at http://freedominourtime.blogspot.com/2010/04/mysteries-of-policy-officially.html:Troy Meade killed Niles Meservey in the parking lot of Everett, Washington's Chuckwagon Inn last June 10. Meade shot the unarmed, intoxicated man seven times in the back. These facts are not in dispute.

In his recently concluded trial, Meade justified his lethal assault by describing it as self-defense: At the time of the shooting, the drunken Meservey was behind the wheel of his Corvette, and Meade was standing behind and to the left of the vehicle.

The jury rejected the claim of self-defense, because Meade was never in significant physical jeopardy. Meservey had plowed his car into a chain-link fence; if he had put the car in reverse, he wouldn't have hit Meade.

Trial testimony established that Meservey was not backing up when Meade pulled his gun. The wrecked Corvette was still embedded in the fence when the crime scene investigators arrived.

Meade was charged with first-degree manslaughter and second-degree murder. The same jury that rejected Meade's self-defense claim acquitted him of both counts.

Guilty on the facts, acquitted by the jury: Officer Troy Meade and his wife react to the verdict.

If the killing of Niles Meservey wasn't self-defense, how could it be something other than an act of criminal homicide?

Since Troy Meade is a police officer and his victim was a mere Mundane, this question typifies what Edmund Burke described as the "mysteries of policy" -- those special exemptions from the moral law claimed by the exalted beings controlling the state's apparatus of coercion.

Any other individual who killed a man under the circumstances recounted above would almost certainly be found guilty of criminal homicide. Because Meade was dressed in the sacerdotal vestments of the state's punitive priesthood, his lawless act of lethal violence was transmuted into an act of policy.

To borrow the expression used by the government ruling us when it audits the shortcomings of other officially established criminal syndicates, this was an "extra-judicial killing" -- a term found in descriptions of murder rampages carried out by police in such places as Nigeria, Pakistan, and Latin American dictatorships of yore. Meade's extra-judicial killing of Meservey was a form of "street justice" by way of summary execution.

"Time to end this -- enough is enough!" According to Officer Stephen Klocker, who was on the scene at the Chuckwagon on June 10 and on the stand as a prosecution witness at Meade's trial, this was what his fellow officer exclaimed as he drew his gun and killed Meservey.

Again, the facts weren't in dispute, just the interpretation, and the interpretation was made according to what Meade believed. And if you believe the acquittal means that Meade didn't commit murder that day, you must also believe that O.J. Simpson didn't commit murder because he was acquitted.

This is part of my position throughout this thread, that cops have exceeded their authority and mandate, and the system backs them up. It's like a running joke, how a cop will do something like Meade did, and then his municipality will announce an investigation, and a couple weeks later, the chief or sheriff announces that the investigation shows the officer or deputy acted within departmental policy. That's the outcome that was preordained, in a "wait-for-it" manner.

The situation is compounded by the fact that courtroom proceedings are stacked in favor of police officers. I saw a video clip a couple weeks ago of jury voir dire in which the potential jurors are asked if they would accept a police officer's word over a citizen's. If you answer no, you're sent home.

More on the subject from http://richardwanke.com/bad-cops-vs-good-cops/:
"You read and hear the stereotype view all the time: that people in power and in law enforcement are treated more leniently than your average citizen when it come to punishment for their infractions of the law.
Reading through the media reports; we are certainly finding this to be the case. Guys and girls in law enforcement and elected officials do get mere slaps on the wrist when they do wrong or commit errors compared to you or I. They also seem to commit a relatively high number of crimes in their professions in comparison to other professions. Perhaps the easy access to power and illicit items is the reason."

Meade wasn't acquitted because he didn't commit murder; he was acquitted because he's a cop who murdered. If you or I had done precisely the same thing in precisely the same circumstance, we'd be trying desperately to hang on to our soap, iykwim.

 

[AMonger]

you still loose you did not prove that all cops or military are bad and your so called examples are flawed as Turtle pointed out so you loose

Please, please, please tell me you don't and won't serve on a jury. Please. You're not paying attention to the facts and assertions that are in play. I plainly never said or implied that every cop was bad, and in fact, plainly stated that some act heroically. My assertion is and has been that cops have changed fundamentally from public servants to exalted beings with extra rights, something they were never intended to be.

P.S. "Loose" is the opposite of tight; lose is the opposite of win.

 

[greg334]

Just wondering, do you ever call 911?

I would think this is a good counter argument to your post

Malice Green and Detroit

 

[AMonger]

Also what wrong with officer safety?

Let's turn that around and ask what's wrong with the Bill of Rights? They shouldn't be in opposition, yet that's where we find ourselves.

how many cops have been killed just trying to their job like one case officer was going to serve a restraining order and was shot and killed before he got out of his car

Not quite sure where you're going with this. We can cite many examples of cops getting hurt or killed. They, including my cousins who are cops, knew it was a dangerous job when they signed up, and yet they signed up anyway. I'm all for measures, equipment, and procedures that increase their safety as long as they don't violate the Bill of Rights. But the officer's right to safety doesn't trump my or your or Turtle's right to be considered innocent until proven guilty or to be secure in our persons, papers, and effects absent probable cause, etc.

and you think just because they put cuffs on someone and round up the guns they dont give them back if the person checks out ok and they legally have the guns not stolen or what ever

It's a little more than that, in fact, a lot more. Many times, cops show up and cuff EVERYBODY involved. Heck, they even do it in traffic incidents. There are times--I have personally witnessed them--when there's a collision involving a big truck, and the cop shows up and handcuffs the driver immediately before investigating for a single second. And the time I witnessed it, the big truck driver, who was from the same company as I, was the one who called the cops to come investigate the accident. So were my co-worker's rights violated?

just wonder since you seem to hate cops are you happy when they get killed?

I hate tyrants of all stripes, both official and privateer, whether it's a murderous cop like Meade or a mugger or rapist. I admire honest cops who obey the Bill of Rights and make sacrifices for the citizens. Which kind they are is up to them.

 

[AMonger]

These past several threads seem to be gaining a tone of negativity steming from the fact that someone ( did not pass the physical to become a police officer). Now thats my opinon and I may be wrong, gosh,,i could have been in error?

Yep, you're in error. As I stated, I'm very happy that I couldn't become a cop. Wasn't happy at the time, but I'm happy about it now. The same thing that happened to the officer in this story: God vs. Taser: Officer Sues APD Austin News - AustinChronicle.com would have happened to me. I would have eventually been ordered to do something wrong, and I would have refused, and then I would have been fired. So I'm better off. My ire at the cops we've been mentioning comes from their illegal actions.

 

[greg334]

You know it is kind of ironic, our rights are trampled in a lot of different ways every day but no one seems to care about it until someone of any government authority does it.

 

[AMonger]

Rather than do the easy thing, I challenge AMonger to flood us with examples of where cops did their jobs without violating the Bill of Rights, and since there are far more instances of that happening, it shouldn't take more than a few minutes.

Nope. You don't get a cookie for doing what you're SUPPOSED TO DO. Imagine if I called dispatch for a pat on the back every time I deliver a load safely and on time. Likewise, when a cop does what he's supposed to do, what he gets is a paycheck. Heck, once a year, the citizens in his municipality can give him a bonus or a dinner or something. But there's little point in posting how an officer restrained himself when appropriate. Wait, I might be wrong about that...it's becoming something of a rarity. Maybe soon we will have to mention those occasions.

On the other hand, if you spend a lot of time feeding anger hanging out on "Bad Cop, Bad Cop" Web sites, finding examples of good cops may prove to be too much of a challenge.

When you have a strong passion for something, even a misguided one, it's always easy to find support for your position.

Or perhaps two other things are in play here: 1) the ubiquity of camera and video phones and the ease of how information flows now, giving us greater exposure to the police misconduct that's always been present; and 2) that my assertion is correct: that cops are fundamentally, principally, ontologically different now than before; that they are more militarized and that they do now exceed their commission. Probably a bit of both.

 

[ShipWreck]

Bob, these are a few examples that I pulled up in 5 or so minutes. I could bury you in them if you want me to keep pulling them up.

There are lots of heroic acts by cops every day by those approximately 800,000 cops in America, and I suspect that will continue. However, you must admit that the nature of policing has changed. Officer Friendly, the peace officer, is dead. He's been succeeded by his demented cousin, Officer Submit-Or-I'll-Kick-Your-***. And boy, does he love his taser. He recognizes no limits on his authoritah, and neither does he recognize the Bill Of Rights. Maybe you don't recognize it because you're too busy waving the flag, or maybe just because you haven't yet been the object of their attention. As comic Dave Chapelle noted, now the cops are beating up white people. We hadn't believed it when it was just black people.

Now, cops arrive, and their first instinct is to put officer safety over the Bill of Rights, which means handcuffing everybody, confiscating every firearm in sight, and tasing anybody who questions them or doesn't react fast enough. Just like congress, we'd be better off firing every police officer in the country, disqualifying them from ever being a cop again, and replacing them with new personnel even if it meant a little disorder until the new guys figure out what they're doing.

The bottom line is, we are THEIR masters, not the other way around. They work for us, but they seem to have forgotten that. You'd never know it.

Did you know that a police K9 is valued greater by the state than a civilian? I can give you examples of that, too. How many do you want? And how many more stories of police misconduct would you like? A hundred? A thousand? And not just routine misconduct, the type that's always gone on and always will because the cops are human and have human frailties, but the kind that demonstrate that the nature of cops has changed and exceeded their commission?

Officer friendly is not there anymore because people have lost the the fine art of acting civil towards police officers. The police are always 1 mistake away from a lawsuit for thier actions. If the american people would wake up and realize that life is not like the Jerry Springer show........ things might change.

I have far more faith in our cops than I do for the average jerks who had the cop sent thier way due to thier own bad behavior.

You need to put yourself in a cops shoes before you go off like this. Cops are screwed by thier own departments, lawyers, civil groups, and Joe public. I can see why some of them become jaded.

 

[Turtle]

It's just easier to paint with a broad brush.

 

[RLENT]

You know it is kind of ironic, our rights are trampled in a lot of different ways every day but no one seems to care about it until someone of any government authority does it.

Greg,

You might wanna read over the statement of yours above several times .... and contemplate it very long and hard ...

By and large, any time my rights are "trampled" as you put it by some non-governmental person or entity, it is largely because I have acceded to it - therefore my rights aren't really being trampled - I have a choice - I can opt out.

But the situation is far different where government is concerned ... they have the guns and the power of force to compel compliance ..... even to the point of requiring one's life ....

Now, where do you think the greatest danger to freedom lies - from the private sector - or the public sector ?

Be very careful how you answer - it's a trick question and very much a double-edged sword .....

 

[AMonger]

You know it is kind of ironic, our rights are trampled in a lot of different ways every day but no one seems to care about it until someone of any government authority does it.

Well, first of all, you don't work for me. I have little control or influence over what you do. The government does work for me. Their authority comes from the just consent of the governed--us. Second, the Bill of Rights doesn't limit you. If I'm in your living room and start talking about things you don't like, you can make me leave. Thus, there's no freedom of speech in your living room, nor freedom of religion or the press or the right to bear arms, etc. You would still be violating my rights if you stole my wallet, so don't do it. The government, otoh, is bound by the Bill of Rights, so I can be angry at them for interfering with my right to free speech, or whatever else, but that doesn't apply to my interactions with you.

 

[RLENT]

Just wondering, do you ever call 911?

I know you're asking someone else, but answering for myself:

Pretty rare ..... probably can count the number of times for my entire life on one hand, if you exclude traffic/motor vehicle related stuff.

I would think this is a good counter argument to your post

Actually, it isn't ....

If the point you're trying to make is that two police officers were wrongly convicted of a crime that they didn't commit - then yeah, sure - I'll buy into that as a premise ...

The problem with raising it as an argument, is that if the above premise is true, it only goes to show how the power of government, when used by corrupt individuals (mayor, coroner, etc.) can be perverted into something that produces injustice, rather than the opposite ....