Ft. Hood Massacre: 12 Dead, 31 Wounded

[Pilgrim]

There is one whole heck of a lot of racist speculation being thrown around in this thread. I hope the powers that be are taking a good look...

It seems that the definition of racism gets broader every day. This thread has been more of a discussion of a religion/political group that has declared war on western civilization. One of its minions that existed within our military ranks killed 13 and wounded 30 servicemen yesterday. If it is racist speculation to wonder if there are others like him in our military and security forces, then so be it. People like him should be banned from military service; in his case, he should have been given a dishonorable discharge for his pro-radical islamic pronouncements and his declaration of Palestinian citizenship which was likely in direct violation of his oath of loyalty to the military. For the life of me, I'll never understand why people in this country would tolerate a religion/political group that has openly declared war on our country and our way of life. It's written in their holy book that we infidels are to be converted or killed, and yet there are still weaklings among us that preach tolerance and understanding of their viewpoints. If there is any justice in this world, he'll be convicted in military court, executed by firing squad and buried with pig's feet.

 

[greg334]

When did a follower of Islam become a race in order to justify that thought?

 

[chefdennis]

islam is much more then a religion ....taken from an article i was reading earlier today...and will post when the time is right...

Islam is much more than a religion; it is a complete civilization that includes politics (caliphate), jurisprudence (Sharia law), war (jihad), and a deliberately misleading "religion of peace." The doctrine of Islam is found in three books: Koran (the literal word of Allah as "revealed" to Mohammed), Sira (Mohammad's biography), and Hadith (stories about and sayings of Mohammed by contemporaries). The definitive text of Sharia law is "Reliance of the Traveller." Allah and Mohammed are to be obeyed, not questioned. "Islam" means "submission;" a Muslim is "one who submits." "Islam" does not mean "peace."

Hmmm no where is the RACE of islam mentioned....guess Greg has a good question....

 

[greg334]

Chef,
As much as Islam does indeed have elements that you speak of, it is like another religion in so much as there are people who twist the words, meanings and prophesies around for their own personal gain, be it money or power. Like many Muslims who claim to be part of a religion of peace, these others also have the same problem claiming to be part of a religion of peace but both forms of followers are about the same with the same hypocritical motives in life.

That religion is Christianity and its past has been formed out of a history that included mass killings and murders, mass mind control and other very bad things that were done to keep its leaders in power. Even today there is something that can be said of it, the lack of self-policing within the religion has fractured it and many believed that modernizing it has actually forced it to work against itself which raises a possibility why do a lot of people leave the religion and go to religions that don't deviate or modernize?

The one thing I have learned with some of these converts is they are looking for stablity, not just Islamic converts but other religious converts. They lack something, or think they lack something in their lives that cause them to cast away their religion to look for answers when there really right there in front of them.

Islam has one book, and that book hasn't changed in a long long time where we have had the bible changed to sometimes suit a political need or some other need.

 

[chefdennis]

Greg. you won't get any arguement from me on the fact that the extremist are the issue in any ans most religions, but we aren't dealing with the christain crusades today, we are dealing with muslum / islamic jihaddist that what nothing more then to 'kill the infidels of the west" and the idea the the Muslum / islamic crusdaes pre-date the christain crusades says that islam / muslum extremeism has been going on just a bit longer... as to the converts, you have to admit that most of the converts to the extreme side are those with weak personalities and black felons that are converted in prisons with both getting the help of the American Muslim Brotherhood....

As to the length of time that islam / muslums have been a threat, you might find this timeline interesting:

Timeline of the Islamic Crusades

 

[chefdennis]

No link yet, but Fox new is reporting that the shooter bought the guns he used "recently' at a gun show.......

 

[greg334]

I understand that, but when you look at the history time lines of both religions, the changes to the chirsitan religion happened long before the establishment of Islam. Now don't get me wrong about this but I am not saying one is better than the other.

Take the crusaders issue out of the picture for a moment and look at the view of the fundamentalist on both sides.

You can take the Westboro Baptist church as one example of fanatic followers of a leader who espouse hate. The same thing happens on the other side, you have Imams in Harper Woods (near here) preaching hate and the followers are acting on it in different ways.

Now the Black thing is a whole 'nother issue in itself. Those roots stretch back to the Black seperatist movement, and the nation of Islam and the Black christian church both embrace it not to uplift the race but to continue to keep it enslaved. Wright and others, even Jackson and Sharpton play a big part in all of that but that really isn't an issue, their power gains have been well established and any thing beyond what these people of peace have may backlash on them one day. As I think it was Malcom X who came to realise when he went to Mecca, it isn't really about the color but the man and his struggles in life that really matter.

 

[chefdennis]

as i said, you won't get an argument from me on the idealogy of the extremes of any religion but for this case christianity and islam / muslum they bith have had and still have their extremes..but the fact is that islam / muslums are the greatest threat to the world right now and that can't be argued away...

As for the posting of the islamic / muslum timeline, that was for you to some extent, but i have a felling that you are aware of it for the most part, but for others to see and understand that this never has been a "religion of peace" from the inception and especially with the extremist.........

 

[layoutshooter]

Gee Rocket, your idea of what constitutes a race is FAR different than what I learned in college anthropology classes I had. Islam or Muslium are NOT races. That religion is practiced by many races and people from varied national origins. White (what we call white anyway) Persians, (who are NOT Arabic) Blacks ( or what we call blacks) and who knows what other race, mixes of races or national origins. NOTHING racist in this thread. OH, don't forget the Turks too.

 

[LDB]

You guys kill me. Don't you know that everything is about race and you are racist if you are on the correct side of the issue.

 

[chefdennis]

yeap as i get older leo my mind is slipping...those liberals definitly make most issues about race when you disagree with them and their need to help and make the underpriviledged feel "special".....

 

[layoutshooter]

That is because liberals keep "inventing" new races so that they can create NEW special interest groups that they control. The purpose of those groups are to insure NEW Dumb-O-Cratic voters. The other purpose is to divide the nation more to make it easier to control it. Liberals are VILE, EVIL people. They thrive on hate, racism, poverty and lies. Not that the ReBumLiCans are any better, just rotten in other ways.

 

[Turtle]

LRE used the wrong term, but his meaning for what racism is when applied to a religion, and to what is happening in here, is the same. Those who are engaging in the practice know they are, and it's why they are hammering LRE over the misuse of the word "racism". It's like hammering someone over their bad spelling in a post where they call you on something. It's easier to confront the real issue by deflecting it to the spelling mistakes than it is to suck it up.

The amount of speculation and conclusions based on speculation and postulated possibilities in this thread is just unreal. It's astounding. I mean, "declaration of Palestinian citizenship"?? That's three jumps of speculation and conclusion away from the actual reality of what he did and the context in which he did it. The guy may have just snapped, or he may have been planning it for months. No... Baaaahhhh...deeee... Knows. But that doesn't matter.

It's silly and wastes time to try and bother to find out the truth when you can leap right on past might have, presumably, often, indicates, perhaps, possibly, maybe, presumably, probably, quite likely, somewhat likely, unlikely, usually, may be possible, seems to suggest, rather likely to indicate, and go straight to a conclusion that makes you feel better about yourself. Hey, you might even end up being right. Yay.

I just hope that I'm never accused of something I didn't do and find any of you on my jury, since you will all have convicted me before you even sat down. I think he did it for the reasons I think he did it, therefore he did it. Are we done yet?

 

[layoutshooter]

Sorry Turtle, I am NOT a racist. I choose to hammer because I, like many others, are TIRED of the claims of racism, which is exactly what MOST who pull that card means. I can't say that is what Rocket was thinking and if he was not, I am sorry to jump. Obama and Co. use that card like it was a ace. Most liberals use it to justify anything that is either un-constitutional OR opposed to their special treatment of special interest groups. You can imply anything you like about me, I am NOT a racist. You don't know me OR my past and CANNOT make that leap, unless of course, you are prejudiced against my beliefs. Not racism, but just as bad.

 

[Turtle]

I never said you were a racist.

But, the same manner in which a racist deals with race, is how the racist-equivalent deals with Muslims or other particular religions. As far as I'm aware, there is no such word as "religionist" to mean the religious equivalent of racism, yet that's exactly what some people are. They will talk about, and act towards, certain religions in the same exact manner that a racist talks about and acts towards other races.

"Kill all blacks" is racist. "Kill all Muslims" isn't racist, but it's the same dаmned thing. It just doesn't have a word for it, and "racist" is as good as any, really, since it means the same thing in another context.

 

[layoutshooter]

That is correct. I have, however, NEVER said kill all blacks or all muslums, I only believe in killing the enemies of our Nation, Constitution or my family. I do NOT care if those enemies are domestic or from sorces outside the country. I, and ONLY I, decide for my self what constitutes an enemy to my family and I KNOW what constitutes an enemy of my Country and Constitution. That is one of those things that are "Self-Evident" I took that oath, in one form or another, more than once and I ALWAYS stand by my oaths. These things will NEVER change in my life.

 

[chefdennis]

Turtle wrote:

Deleted by chef dennis, its just not worth it....

 

[Pilgrim]

LRE used the wrong term, but his meaning for what racism is when applied to a religion, and to what is happening in here, is the same. Those who are engaging in the practice know they are, and it's why they are hammering LRE over the misuse of the word "racism". It's like hammering someone over their bad spelling in a post where they call you on something. It's easier to confront the real issue by deflecting it to the spelling mistakes than it is to suck it up.

The term you're grasping for is bigotry - religious bigotry to be specific. You're right in saying the concept is still the same. To say people are bigoted for discussing a situation in which an obviously radical muslim commits a terrorist act on a military base is - putting it mildly - nonsense. It's obvious that this act required considerable preparation involving the aquisition of firearms and ammunition that were illegal on the base along with training and practice for the usage of said weapons. From what we're seen on his web postings and the problems he had with his patients, this animosity had been growing for some time.

The amount of speculation and conclusions based on speculation and postulated possibilities in this thread is just unreal. It's astounding. I mean, "declaration of Palestinian citizenship"?? That's three jumps of speculation and conclusion away from the actual reality of what he did and the context in which he did it. The guy may have just snapped, or he may have been planning it for months. No... Baaaahhhh...deeee... Knows. But that doesn't matter.

It's silly and wastes time to try and bother to find out the truth when you can leap right on past might have, presumably, often, indicates, perhaps, possibly, maybe, presumably, probably, quite likely, somewhat likely, unlikely, usually, may be possible, seems to suggest, rather likely to indicate, and go straight to a conclusion that makes you feel better about yourself. Hey, you might even end up being right. Yay.

I just hope that I'm never accused of something I didn't do and find any of you on my jury, since you will all have convicted me before you even sat down. I think he did it for the reasons I think he did it, therefore he did it. Are we done yet?

No - we're not done yet. Facts continue to come out about this massacre, and opinions will evolve as more information becomes available. It may well be that a lot of the pertinant facts won't ever be made available for security reasons, since this happened on a military base. If the press were allowed to report a detailed, line-item description of how this guy carried off the attack it would only be a recipie for other would-be terrorists to follow. Therefore, we probably won't ever have all the facts available unless they make his trial public. That being said, one of the priviledges of this and other forums is being allowed to speculate on what happened based on the information available. That's what is happening here and it's not a trial in a court of law, nor is it intended to be.

 

[letzrockexpress]

Since I do not have the time or patience this evening for a long diatribe on "what LRE meant", suffice to say I should have used the term "outrageous and vicious stereotyping" rather than "racist". To borrow Pilgrim's choice of words, "bigotry" works as well. Please make the necessary corrections in your notes...

 

[greg334]

Well Letz, here is the thing, I didn't mean to pick on you and sorry about that but as one who hears this all the time, the word is over used and rather tiring to hear when describing everything from car companies to health care to NASA.