Bill Clinton could have had Bin Laden, just another non fact

[DougTravels]

Ultimately, however, it doesn’t matter. What is not in dispute at all is the fact that, in early 1996, American officials regarded Osama bin Laden as a financier of terrorism and not as a mastermind largely because, at the time, there was no real evidence that bin Laden had harmed American citizens. So even if the Sudanese government really did offer to hand bin Laden over, the U.S. would have had no grounds for detaining him. In fact, the Justice Department did not secure an indictment against bin Laden until 1998 – at which point Clinton did order a cruise missile attack on an al Qaeda camp in an attempt to kill bin Laden.

We have to be careful about engaging in what historians call "Whig history," which is the practice of assuming that historical figures value exactly the same things that we do today. It's a fancy term for those "why didn't someone just shoot Hitler in 1930?" questions that one hears in dorm-room bull sessions. The answer, of course, is that no one knew quite how bad Hitler was in 1930. The same is true of bin Laden in 1996

 

[layoutshooter]

Bull Hockey, many many people knew what we were up against, but they were ignored by the polititions. Now people are dead. That will continue. Nothing will change. It can't, all that happened when Obama was elected is another slimey know-nothing dunce got elected. Another in a VERY long line of know-nothing dunces, party is NOT relevent. THEY ALL SUCK!! VOTE THEM ALL OUT!!!

 

[DougTravels]

Facts trump mindless right wing drivel, no matter how loudly it is spewed.


So even if the Sudanese government really did offer to hand bin Laden over, the U.S. would have had no grounds for detaining him. In fact, the Justice Department did not secure an indictment against bin Laden until 1998 – at which point Clinton did order a cruise missile attack on an al Qaeda camp in an attempt to kill bin Laden.

 

[layoutshooter]

Justice has NO jurisdiction, these are combatants, they have declared war on the U.S. The problem is slimey polititions in this country. Mostly all stupid and for the most part cowards. The present resident of the White House is no exception. THEY ALL SUCK!! VOTE THE SCUM OUT!! ALL OF THEM. Reguardless of party. Before we loose the lives of more real Americans, important ones. That does NOT include polititions. They are more useless that hooters on a toad. (the real word works better with toad!! LOL!!)

 

[Dreammaker]

Facts trump mindless right wing drivel, no matter how loudly it is spewed.


So even if the Sudanese government really did offer to hand bin Laden over, the U.S. would have had no grounds for detaining him. In fact, the Justice Department did not secure an indictment against bin Laden until 1998 – at which point Clinton did order a cruise missile attack on an al Qaeda camp in an attempt to kill bin Laden.

Perhaps, you missed the NBC video of the Predator drone taking real time video of Bin Laden in 2000 while Bill was still in office. Here it is again: YouTube - Bin Laden Footage. Let me see 2000 is after Bin Laden was indicted in 1998. What was that about facts trumping mindless drivel?

 

[layoutshooter]

Hey Doug, you still have never given us a overview of your military, intell, legal and forgien policy back round. You have often questioned mine. I will provide documentation if need. I expect you will do the same? Turn about IS fair play. I can only thing of 3 reasons why you will not answer and two of them force me to question you.

 

[DougTravels]

Sorry Layout it is all still classified. To give you a general idea, I worked in highly covert European Opps, driving fast cars, with cool gadgets and making out with beautiful Russian double agents.

 

[greg334]

I got to repeat my post and sorry but I had to correct it...

Doug,
You are making our point..... The justice department should not have anything to do with terrorism, just like the FBI overseas investigating things. They should only concern themselves with internal matters and matters that reach our shores and allow the CIA and the military to do their job.

There is a distinct line created in the constitution that the MILITARY is there to protect us, which means that the justice department and the FBI are not charged with hunting down and killing terrorist overseas. When the FBI becomes a constitutional charge department on international matters, then I can agree with their involvement but until then, any president who pursues any international terrorist through the courts is wasting our money.

READ THIS CAREFULLY -
Bin Laden has claimed to be the one to put together the killing of US soldiers in Mogadishu, Somalia in 1993... he was wanted then for those killings and following it was CLINTON, Janet Reno and Groelick (she was the author of the "wall" memo between departments and the one who should not have been on the 9/11 commission but was) are all who decided to handle ALL TERRORIST MATTERS as they were felonies - making them equal to carjackings and armed robberies. THIS MEANS THAT instead of killing them on site or torturing them for more info, they are charged with a crime, captured if possible and then tried in US court on US soil which mocks us and our rights.

I seriously think you need to start heading down to Hamtramck or Dearborn and spend some time learning the whos whys and whats of these cultures.

AND I AM ADDING THIS....

Facts? OK wikipeidia is a good start for learning but there are too many places where there is conjecture and unmitigated falsehoods. Even though there is a great section on 9/11, there is some items that are false, like the issue with WTC7. But if you want to quote Wikipedia as Fact, then go for it, it just reinforces our position even more.

 

[layoutshooter]

That's what I thought. Much like Tommy Ivo, eh?

 

[LDB]

What is not in dispute at all is the fact that, in early 1996, American officials regarded Osama bin Laden as a financier of terrorism and not as a mastermind largely because, at the time, there was no real evidence that bin Laden had harmed American citizens. So even if the Sudanese government really did offer to hand bin Laden over, the U.S. would have had no grounds for detaining him. In fact, the Justice Department did not secure an indictment against bin Laden until 1998 – at which point Clinton did order a cruise missile attack on an al Qaeda camp in an attempt to kill bin Laden.

We have to be careful about engaging in what historians call "Whig history," which is the practice of assuming that historical figures value exactly the same things that we do today. It's a fancy term for those "why didn't someone just shoot Hitler in 1930?" questions that one hears in dorm-room bull sessions. The answer, of course, is that no one knew quite how bad Hitler was in 1930. The same is true of bin Laden in 1996

Ultimately, however, it doesn’t matter. What is not in dispute at all is the fact that, in early 1996, American officials regarded Osama bin Laden as a financier of terrorism and not as a mastermind largely because, at the time, there was no real evidence that bin Laden had harmed American citizens. So even if the Sudanese government really did offer to hand bin Laden over, the U.S. would have had no grounds for detaining him. In fact, the Justice Department did not secure an indictment against bin Laden until 1998 – at which point Clinton did order a cruise missile attack on an al Qaeda camp in an attempt to kill bin Laden.

We have to be careful about engaging in what historians call "Whig history," which is the practice of assuming that historical figures value exactly the same things that we do today. It's a fancy term for those "why didn't someone just shoot Hitler in 1930?" questions that one hears in dorm-room bull sessions. The answer, of course, is that no one knew quite how bad Hitler was in 1930. The same is true of bin Laden in 1996

First at 10:31 a.m. this morning and again at 3:49 p.m. today but then that's the way. Repeat the same thing enough and you can believe it regardless of whether it's anything or not.

You supplied the key information yourself. He was the one paying to kill us. He's dead as soon as I can get an asset in position to eliminate him. Go back to your James Bond movies and Koolaid. Leave protecting the nation to those who actually give a dam*.

 

[LDB]

Sorry Layout it is all still classified. To give you a general idea, I worked in highly covert European Opps, driving fast cars, with cool gadgets and making out with beautiful Russian double agents.

James Bond movies to go with your 40 gallon Koolaid that you are so proud of you show in your sig pic huh.

 

[greg334]

Sorry Layout it is all still classified. To give you a general idea, I worked in highly covert European Opps, driving fast cars, with cool gadgets and making out with beautiful Russian double agents.

That's cool, you're just too cool......

What kind of fast cars?

I bet you loved those really fast Moskvich 408 tourist or was that really fast and sporty ZAZ-965?

 

[mjolnir131]

the only mindless drivel on this forum comes from the extreme left who want to make up "FACTS" to suit there case.

you notice the 2 or 3 actual liberals we have here do get there facts shoved down there throats when they make less than shinning comments about bush, why because we don't have to vilify and make up facts or extort things

a perfect example of extreme leftist poor illogic is as fallows ... Bush is an evil genius that tried to take over the world has to be because of all the crap he pulled and is not in jail. and "Bush is the biggest moron ever brought to the planet". these to sentiments comprise 95% of all left rhetoric the 5 remaining percent points are the true facts dribbled in either by accident or to make there wild claims sound more credible.

I will address illogic to a point and that point is make up your mind is he a moron or a genius because you can't have it both ways,and i have seen it use not only in the same paragraph but sometimes even in the same sentence.

Do i think a president would not take a knowen terrorist no I'm very sure all presidents would,Clinton admitted he misspoke about Sudan and Bin laden they had not approached us. it may have been an option they wear looking at but they never made the offer if they even thought of it or if they even had bin laden.

In the last 40-some years he have had two above average presidents JFK and Dutch,and they wear barely above average.i can go down the list and get specific but generally carter was the weakest presidency with 41 next in line,what did he do while in office anybody remember.Of course not doing anything might get him higher marks then some of the bozo's we have elected in resent years might have to bump him up a bit now that i think about it.

Now i will give O some credit and this is an honest evaluation using logic not some made up rag sheet on presidential IQ's.Takings O's Sat score and doing a rough conversation to IQ,he says he never to an IQ test,he would fall someplace around a whole standard deviation below 43 but his academic career is heads and tails above 43 that actually says something about what is inside a man something great to build on, the problem is i don't see him translating this ability very well to running the county.

When you do have valued points using rhetoric and accusing the other side,if there is one, of pulling stunts you yourself are the one doing, it makes those points lost.likewise when you try and pass off an average president as being totally superior to the last average president people have a tendency to question your earnestie.

I can't hear you because your yelling to loud.

 

[DougTravels]

FactCheck.org: Did Bill Clinton pass up a chance to kill Osama bin Laden?

You guys are just plain wrong. The facts do not lie, no matter how you try to bend them.

 

[layoutshooter]

How about using a totally UNBIASED sorce Doug. It is highly unlikey that a U.S. college is unbiased.

 

[mjolnir131]

How about using a totally UNBIASED sorce Doug. It is highly unlikey that a U.S. college is unbiased.

actually it's worse our education system is so deeply buried in a culture of bias they can't see the forest for the tree's. they have been trained and rewarded for biased thinking and behavior for so long even when they try really hard to be unbiased they still come out extremely twisted and off base.

 

[LDB]

Once more for the slow learners. We knew who Bin Laden was in 1996. We knew far more than we had to know. He should have had a bullseye on his forehead. Had we been afforded proper leadership at the time that problem would have gone away. It's called doing what needs to be done to protect the nation. It's a concept only patriotic Americans with clear thinking comprehend.

 

[layoutshooter]

There was a Soviet plan put into effect in the late 1930's prior to the start of WWII. Thier goal was to infiltrate our colleges as a way to indoctrinate/teach thier system to students. It has worked. I really wish I could remember the Soviet generals name who came up with this plan. I no longer have access to the proper library to find it. It is NOT classified but I have not found anything in open sorce materials. It is VERY frustrating. Both not being able to find the information I want and the continuing senior moments.

 

[DougTravels]

Hmmmmmmm should I believe the opinions of a few internet posters who continually support right wing views, including those who start "N" word threads, those who claim to be former spies and those who seem to bash everything the Democratic party stands for, or should I believe an unbiased fact checking organization.

Tough decision, but I think I will go with factcheck.org

Maybe it would be wise for a few others to check out their misquoted "facts" before posting them.

 

[layoutshooter]

Come on Doug, you can drop the "claim" stuff with me. I can PROVE everything that I say I have donein my life. I have the documentation. From my military time, to my DOD time, my firefighting/EMT work and a zillion other accomplishments. Must be hard for you to accept for some reason. What have you done with your life?

When did I use the "N" word or were you not speaking of me on that one.