barry BOWS AGAIN

[Poorboy]

Late Lastnight I Got Hungry, So I went to the Hamburger Joint Down the Street! I Had to Leave Right Away as there was an Obscene Picture Hanging on the Wall, And it was Obumma Bowing to The Burger King!!

 

[OntarioVanMan]

My Dad was there, and was going to be in the first wave to invade, they were training for it. Awarded 4 bronze stars.

I ask him how he felt about the Bombing....He said "well, your here and your sister is here, so I feel perty good about it"

No brain washing there, he saw first hand what type of people they were back then.

OVM, while you are at home tune TV to the history channel.... WWII in HD.

After watching this great series and being reminded just how fanatical the Japanese were...I think the decision to drop the bombs was warranted...

 

[Steady Eddie]

After watching this great series and being reminded just how fanatical the Japanese were...I think the decision to drop the bombs was warranted...

Thought you would....

 

[FIS53]

Hindsight is wonderful. The decision to drop the bombs was basically the right one. If the US had decided to maintain a blockade (easily done at that point in the war) they could have starved the islands and yes a lot more civilian deaths. Could have continued bombing and also expanded the bombing to other Japanese bases in Taiwan, China and Korea. This would probably led to a surrender but it would have been months away.

What many are not aware of was the fact that not only were the Germans working on Atomic weapons but also the Japanese. They had two separate research ops for atomic energy/weapons. One was on the main island and was damaged in bombing. The other was based in Korea (now N Korea) and had access to power and was not on the bombing radar. This facility according to records actually detonated an atomic bomb just before the surrender. They were months away from developing it into a usable weapon but even so they had the knowledge. Just think what this would have done to the fleet based off of Japan and the occupied islands if they had made this into several bombs. The Japanese were masters at getting long range out of their aircraft and could therefore have delivered a bomb upto over 1200 miles from Japans main island. They proved this back at the beginning of the war as the 2nd fleet used no carriers in the attack against the Phillipines.
Rob

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I am quite sure the Russians also got the message...we have the BOMB and will use it....

 

[Pilgrim]

In addition to bowing to the Japanese Prime Minister, he also bowed to the Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao.

Can't wait until we get a picture of him bowing to Hugo Chavez or Mullah Omar.

 

[layoutshooter]

The most important goal of Barry's rule is to subject the United States to as many foreign powers as possible.

 

[RLENT]

Assuming one is in possession of ALL THE FACTS.

Here's a little bit of fact that many are probably not in possession of - the McCollum Memo. A scan of the actual memo itself is linked on the page below and the text can be read.

To quote from the linked page where it resides:

"On October 7, 1940, Lieutenant Commander Arthur McCollum of the Office of Naval Intelligence submitted a memo to Navy Captains Walter Anderson and Dudley Knox (whose endorsement is included in the following scans). Captains Anderson and Knox were two of President Roosevelt's most trusted military advisors.

The memo, scanned below, detailed an 8 step plan to provoke Japan into attacking the United States. President Roosevelt, over the course of 1941, implemented all 8 of the recommendations contained in the McCollum memo. Following the eighth provocation, Japan attacked. The public was told that it was a complete surprise, an "intelligence failure", and America entered World War Two." (which of course was a complete lie )

The McCollum Memo: The Smoking Gun of Pearl Harbor

Some things are not what others would have you believe ....

 

[Tennesseahawk]

One piece of proof that we knew it was coming is that our carriers were all out on maneuvers, without escort. I find it stomach-turning that our servicemen were used as guinea pigs, and were given no chance to defend themselves. FDR should've been strung up for setting all those sailors up for slaughter.

 

[RLENT]

One piece of proof that we knew it was coming is that our carriers were all out on maneuvers, without escort.

Yup - that's one part of the puzzle.

I find it stomach-turning that our servicemen were used as guinea pigs, and were given no chance to defend themselves.

It is utterly disgusting isn't it ?

FDR should've been strung up for setting all those sailors up for slaughter.

Tried and convicted for treason - and then drawn and quartered ..... or disemboweled while awake and unmedicated (literally ) ......

 

[RLENT]

The above memo, taken isolation, could (perhaps) be dismissed as an odd coincidence.

However, as is usually the case, there's more to the story. At the following link one can read many other relevant facts related to the issue:

PEARL HARBOR: MOTHER OF ALL CONSPIRACIES

 

[greg334]

This memo?

0p-16-F-2 ON1
7 October 1940
Memorandum for the Director
Subject: Estimate of the Situation in the Pacific and Recommendations for Action by the United States.

1. The United States today finds herself confronted by a hostile Germany and Italy in Europe and by an equally hostile Japan in the Orient. Russia, the great land link between these two groups of hostile powers, is at present neutral, but in all probability favorably inclined towards the Axis powers, and her favorable attitude towards these powers may be expected to increase in direct proportion to increasing success in their prosecution of the war in Europe. Germany and Italy have been successful in war on the continent of Europe and all of Europe is either under their military control or has been forced into subservience. Only the British Empire is actively opposing by war the growing world dominance of Germany and Italy and their satellites.

2. The United States at first remained coolly aloof from the conflict in Europe and there is considerable evidence to support the view that Germany and Italy attempted by every method within their power to foster a continuation of American indifference to the outcome of the struggle in Europe. Paradoxically, every success of German and Italian arms has led to further increases in United States sympathy for and material support of the British Empire, until at the present time the United States government stands committed to a policy of rendering every support short of war the chances rapidly increasing that the United States will become a full fledged ally of the British Empire in the very near future. The final failure of German and Italian diplomacy to keep the United States in the role of a disinterested spectator has forced them to adopt the policy of developing threats to U.S. security in other spheres of the world, notably by the threat of revolutions in South and Central America by Axis-dominated groups and by the stimulation of Japan to further aggressions and threats in the Far East in the hope that by these mean the United States would become so confused in thought and fearful of her own immediate security as to cause her to become so preoccupied in purely defensive preparations as to virtually preclude U.S. aid to Great Britain in any form. As a result of this policy, Germany and Italy have lately concluded a military alliance with Japan directed against the United States If the published terms of this treaty and the pointed utterances of German, Italian and Japanese leaders can be believed, and there seems no ground on which to doubt either, the three totalitarian powers agree to make war on the United States, should she come to the assistance of England, or should she attempt to forcibly interfere with Japan's aims in the Orient and, furthermore, Germany and Italy expressly reserve the right to determine whether American aid to Britain, short of war, is a cause for war or not after they have succeeded in defeating England. In other words, after England has been disposed of her enemies will decide whether or not to immediately proceed with an attack on the United States. Due to geographic conditions, neither Germany nor Italy are in a position to offer any material aid to Japan. Japan, on the contrary, can be of much help to both Germany and Italy by threatening and possibly even attacking British dominions and supply routes from Australia, India and the Dutch East Indies, thus materially weakening Britain's position in opposition to the Axis powers in Europe. In exchange for this service, Japan receives a free hand to seize all of Asia that she can find it possible to grab, with the added promise that Germany and Italy will do all in their power to keep U.S. attention so attracted as to prevent the United States from taking positive aggressive action against Japan. Here again we have another example of the Axis-Japanese diplomacy which is aimed at keeping American power immobilized, and by threats and alarms to so confuse American thought as to preclude prompt decisive action by the United States in either sphere of action. It cannot be emphasized to strongly that the last thing desired by either the Axis powers in Europe or by Japan in the Far East is prompt, warlike action by the United States in either theatre of operations.

3. An examination of the situation in Europe leads to the conclusion that there is little that we can do now, immediately to help Britain that is not already being done. We have no trained army to send to the assistance of England, nor will we have for at least a year. We are now trying to increase the flow of materials to England and to bolster the defense of England in every practicable way and this aid will undoubtedly be increased. On the other hand, there is little that Germany or Italy can do against us as long as England continues in the war and her navy maintains control of the Atlantic. The one danger to our position lies in the possible early defeat of the British Empire with the British Fleet falling intact into the hands of the Axis powers. The possibility of such an event occurring would be materially lessened were we actually allied in war with the British or at the very least were taking active measures to relieve the pressure on Britain in other spheres of action. To sum up: the threat to our security in the Atlantic remains small so long as the British Fleet remains dominant in that ocean and friendly to the United States.

4. In the Pacific, Japan by virtue of her alliance with Germany and Italy is a definite threat to the security of the British Empire and once the British Empire is gone the power of Japan-Germany and Italy is to be directed against the United States. A powerful land attack by Germany and Italy through the Balkans and North Africa against the Suez Canal with a Japanese threat or attack on Singapore would have very serious results for the British Empire. Could Japan be diverted or neutralized, the fruits of a successful attack on the Suez Canal could not be as far reaching and beneficial to the Axis powers as if such a success was also accompanied by the virtual elimination of British sea power from the Indian Ocean, thus opening up a European supply route for Japan and a sea route for Eastern raw materials to reach Germany and Italy, Japan must be diverted if the British and American ( ) blockade of Europe and possibly Japan (?) is to remain even partially in effect.

5. While as pointed out in Paragraph (3) there is little that the United States can do to immediately retrieve the situation in Europe, the United States is able to effectively nullify Japanese aggressive action, and do it without lessening U.S. material assistance to Great Britain.

6. An examination of Japan's present position as opposed to the United States reveals a situation as follows:
Advantages

• 1. Geographically strong position of Japanese Islands.
• 2. A highly centralized strong capable government.
• 3. Rigid control of economy on a war basis.
• 4. A people inured to hardship and war.
• 5. A powerful army.
• 6. A skillful navy about 2/3 the strength of the U.S. Navy.
• 7. Some stocks of raw materials.

Disadvantages

• 1. A million and a half men engaged in an exhausting war on the Asiatic Continent.
• 2. Domestic economy and food supply severely straightened.
• 3. A serious lack of sources of raw materials for war. Notably oil, iron and cotton.
• 4. Totally cut off from supplies from Europe.
• 5. Dependent upon distant overseas routes for essential supplies.
• 6. Incapable of increasing manufacture and supply of war materials without free access to U.S. or European markets.
• 7. Major cities and industrial centers extremely vulnerable to air attack.
• 8. Weather until April rendering direct sea operations in the vicinity of Japan difficult.

7. In the Pacific the United States possesses a very strong defensive position and a navy and naval air force at present in that ocean capable of long distance offensive operation. There are certain other factors which at the present time are strongly in our favor, viz:

• A. Philippine Islands still held by the United States.
• B. Friendly and possibly allied government in control of the Dutch East Indies.
• C. British still hold Hong Kong and Singapore and are favorable to us.
• D. Important Chinese armies are still in the field in China against Japan.
• E. A small U.S. Naval Force capable of seriously threatening Japan's southern supply routes already in the theatre of operations.
• F. A considerable Dutch naval force is in the Orient that would be of value if allied to U.S.

8. A consideration of the foregoing leads to the conclusion that prompt aggressive naval action against Japan by the United States would render Japan incapable of affording any help to Germany and Italy in their attack on England and that Japan itself would be faced with a situation in which her navy could be forced to fight on most unfavorable terms or accept fairly early collapse of the country through the force of blockade. A prompt and early declaration of war after entering into suitable arrangements with England and Holland, would be most effective in bringing about the early collapse of Japan and thus eliminating our enemy in the pacific before Germany and Italy could strike at us effectively. Furthermore, elimination of Japan must surely strengthen Britain's position against Germany and Italy and, in addition, such action would increase the confidence and support of all nations who tend to be friendly towards us.

9. It is not believed that in the present state of political opinion the United States government is capable of declaring war against Japan without more ado; and it is barely possible that vigorous action on our part might lead the Japanese to modify their attitude. Therefore, the following course of action is suggested:

• A. Make an arrangement with Britain for the use of British bases in the Pacific, particularly Singapore.
• B. Make an arrangement with Holland for the use of base facilities and acquisition of supplies in the Dutch East Indies.
• C. Give all possible aid to the Chinese government of Chiang-Kai-Shek.
• D. Send a division of long range heavy cruisers to the Orient, Philippines, or Singapore.
• E. Send two divisions of submarines to the Orient.
• F. Keep the main strength of the U.S. fleet now in the Pacific in the vicinity of the Hawaiian Islands.
• G. Insist that the Dutch refuse to grant Japanese demands for undue economic concessions, particularly oil.
• H. Completely embargo all U.S. trade with Japan, in collaboration with a similar embargo imposed by the British Empire.

10. If by these means Japan could be led to commit an overt act of war, so much the better. At all events we must be fully prepared to accept the threat of war.

Summary

1. The United States is faced by a hostile combination of powers in both the Atlantic and Pacific.
2. British naval control of the Atlantic prevents hostile action against the United States in this area.
3. Japan's growing hostility presents an attempt to open sea communications between Japan and the Mediterranean by an attack on the British lines of communication in the Indian Ocean.
4. Japan must be diverted if British opposition in Europe is to remain effective.
5. The United States naval forces now in the Pacific are capable of so containing and harassing Japan as to nullify her assistance to Germany and Italy.
6. It is to the interest of the United States to eliminate Japan's threat in the Pacific at the earliest opportunity by taking prompt and aggressive action against Japan.
7. In the absence of United States ability to take the political offensive, additional naval force should be sent to the orient and agreements entered into with Holland and England that would serve as an effective check against Japanese encroachments in South-eastern Asia.

Comment by Captain Knox
It is unquestionably to out general interest that Britain be not licked - just now she has a stalemate and probably cant do better. We ought to make it certain that she at least gets a stalemate. For this she will probably need from us substantial further destroyers and air reinforcements to England. We should not precipitate anything in the Orient that should hamper our ability to do this - so long as probability continues.

If England remains stable, Japan will be cautious in the Orient. Hence our assistance to England in the Atlantic is also protection to her and us in the Orient.
However, I concur in your courses of action we must be ready on both sides and probably strong enough to care for both.
D.W.K.

Re your #6: - no reason for battleships not visiting west coast in bunches.

The eight points;

• A. Make an arrangement with Britain for the use of British bases in the Pacific, particularly Singapore.
• B. Make an arrangement with Holland for the use of base facilities and acquisition of supplies in the Dutch East Indies.
• C. Give all possible aid to the Chinese government of Chiang-Kai-Shek.
• D. Send a division of long range heavy cruisers to the Orient, Philippines, or Singapore.
• E. Send two divisions of submarines to the Orient.
• F. Keep the main strength of the U.S. fleet now in the Pacific in the vicinity of the Hawaiian Islands.
• G. Insist that the Dutch refuse to grant Japanese demands for undue economic concessions, particularly oil.
• H. Completely embargo all U.S. trade with Japan, in collaboration with a similar embargo imposed by the British Empire.

I don't think the first two points happened, we didn't use the bases until after the start of the war.

The two bold points we were already doing.

The blue points are what we should have done.

The last two points happened to be part of an attempt by a lot of other countries, we were not the only one to force an embargo on Japan.

Regardless, the idea of an attack was going to happen was known since the 20's, even the location was talked about.

Even if Roosevelt wanted war, I think he wanted to invoke japan in a different way, more or less like how Wilson got into WW1.

 

[jaminjim]

The above memo, taken isolation, could (perhaps) be dismissed as an odd coincidence.

However, as is usually the case, there's more to the story. At the following link one can read many other relevant facts related to the issue:

PEARL HARBOR: MOTHER OF ALL CONSPIRACIES

Could you please show a link that shows where this was actually produced from the freedom of information thingy.
As we know just because there is a website that says it doesn't really prove it.

 

[RLENT]

Could you please show a link that shows where this was actually produced from the freedom of information thingy.

I can't produce a link to any place on the web that documents that, but the entire 424 page book can be ordered at the link below (the content on the webpage linked above is about 10% of the first chapter of the book)

Pearl Harbor - Mother of All Conspiracies

I was under the impression that it could also be purchased as an e-book, although I am unable to locate a link to do so.

Suffice it to say that the book contains many documented historical facts and events and documented statements from historical figures (from various sources) and that it also undoubtedly contains speculation, inference, and implication - as is the nature of such things where you have the government concealing and withholding possibly relevant facts: over 24,000 JN-25 intercepts are still being withheld (out of the 2,413 that were released, only 20 are in the National Archives) - and none from before December 7, 1941 have ever been released (under the auspices of national security - about events that took place almost 70 years ago ) .... if they even still exist and haven't been destroyed .....

It is not the only book out there to do so: At Dawn We Slept, The Untold Story Of Pearl Harbor (New York Times bestseller, and credited as the basis for the movie Tora! Tora! Tora!) by Gordon Prange (the Chief Historian in General Douglas MacArthur's staff during the military occupation of Japan after the war) and Day of Deceit: The Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor by Robert Stinnett (a research fellow at the Independent Institute, who was the individual who originally obtained the McCollum Memo thru the FOIA) also address the allegation that the US government, in fact - and FDR specifically - intentionally provoked the war. (The above contains clickable links for both the books, and their authors)

Description of Day of Deceit on Wikipedia

You may also wish to review the following - the first three are commentaries by Robert Stinnett, the fourth was an event where Stinnett spoke, the fifth is an interview of Stinnett by Doug Cirignano for the website (Disinformation), and the sixth is a debate between Stinnett and Stephen Budiansky.

December 7, 1941: A Setup from the Beginning

Pentagon Still Scapegoats Pearl Harbor Fall Guys

The Pearl Harbor Deception

Pearl Harbor: Official Lies in an American War Tragedy? (transcript, audio, or video available for purchase)

Do Freedom of Information Act Files Prove FDR Had Foreknowledge of Pearl Harbor?: An Interview with Robert Stinnett

The Truth About Pearl Harbor: A Debate

Further, you may wish to visit the Independent Institute's Pearl Harbor Archive .... no shortage of reading material there:

Pearl Harbor Archive

As we know just because there is a website that says it doesn't really prove it.

Indeed ..... not at all dissimilar in a way to the premise:

"just because it was written in a bunch of history books, that doesn't mean that was what actually happened .... particularly when those writting such books, or those who they use as sources have something to gain .... or to hide .... no matter how many gullible folks may eventually be suckered into believing it ..... "

 

[RLENT]

This might be along the lines of what you are looking for - although it relates specifically to how Stinnett originally uncovered the McCollum Memo. It is a Google cached version of an article written by Beverly Kees and was originally posted on the Freedom Forum's website (which, when I tried to access it, appears to be having problems) The cached version specifies the specific web browser used to search/access - in my case Safari on the Mac - so I have no idea if that will effect the manner in which the page is rendered or displayed:

Journalist uses FOIA to uncover 'Truth About FDR and Pearl Harbor'

 

[Turtle]

One piece of proof that we knew it was coming is that our carriers were all out on maneuvers, without escort. I find it stomach-turning that our servicemen were used as guinea pigs, and were given no chance to defend themselves. FDR should've been strung up for setting all those sailors up for slaughter.

Widely believed, but it's not really true. Two carriers, Enterprise and Lexington were out delivering additional war planes to Wake and Midway. The Enterprise was actually pre-scheduled to be back in port at Pearl on December 6th, according to the Quarterly Employment Schedule that was disseminated on August of that year (and the Lexington's original schedule was revised to match that of Enterprise), but a storm delayed the planned Saturday evening arrival. Because of the storm, the ETA was updated to 7AM Sunday morning, 55 minutes before the attack happened, but that even proved to be optimistic. They were, however, plenty close enough to Pearl at the time of the attack to have some of their own planes take off and join in the defense effort.

A brief overview of several of the points dispelling the myths:
Sacred Cows and Dead Horses - World War II Forums

The complete story of the attack as reported in the entire 23 volume, 40 part, 25,000 page report of the Hearings Before the Joint Committee on the Investigation of the Pearl Harbor Attack, Congress of the United States, Seventy-Ninth Congress:
Pearl Harbor Investigation Listing

A really gnarly conspiracy, especially if you're an FDR hater, is certainly more fun, tho.

 

[RLENT]

The complete story of the attack

Complete ? ...... really ?

Is that fully complete ? Or totally complete ?

Or just partially, not quite, complete ?

I mean, given that the government conducted yet another inquiry (there have been 10 so far) as recently as 1995 (the Thurmond-Spence Hearing), as a consequence of newly available material, do you think that we are now reeeeally finished, and that the subject can finally be laid to rest ?

Or do you think that if more material were to come available that it might require that the subject be revisited ? (say some of those 24,000 JN25 decrypts, particularly any obtained before December 7, 1941, maybe ?)

as reported in the entire 23 volume, 40 part, 25,000 page report of the Hearings Before the Joint Committee on the Investigation of the Pearl Harbor Attack, Congress of the United States, Seventy-Ninth Congress:

Wow ..... WOW !!!

An official report ? ..... by Congress, no less !!! (say ... aren't those the very same folks who had their power to wage war usurped from them ?)

And 23 volumes ..... 40 parts ..... and 25,000 pages ..... simply voluminous !

Now I'm really impressed ..... especially after watching ten's (if not hundreds) of hours of 911 Commission Hearings and seeing what a farce that was .....

From the Stinnett interview:

Q: Your research seems to prove that government conspiracies can exist. In your view, how many people would you say ultimately knew that Japan was going to attack Pearl Harbor, but kept quiet about it and covered it up before and after the event?

Stinnett: I cite about thirty-five people there in the book that most certainly knew about it. And it’s probably more than that.

Q: It also seems like a classic Washington cover-up. In your book you use the phrase “Pearl Harbor deceits”. Ever since the attack there have been missing documents, altered documents, people being disingenuous, and people outright perjuring themselves before the Pearl Harbor investigation committees. Correct?

Stinnett: That is right. Absolutely. And you know the Department of Defense has labeled some of my Pearl Harbor requests as B1 National Defense Secrets, and they will not release them. I say that in the book. Janet Reno would not release them to me.

Q: And all the official Congressional Pearl Harbor committees were denied and weren’t privy to all this revealing information?

Stinnett: That’s right. They were cut out, also.

Q: A lot of people probably don’t want to believe that a president would let something like Pearl Harbor happen. Have you gotten any criticism for contending that FDR had a foreknowledge of the attack?

Stinnett: Yes. I get about a seventy percent approval rating. From, you know, comments, news media, radio, and all that. And there’s about thirty percent just don’t accept this....But the nitty-gritty questions are fine to me. You know, the people who are attacking me, what they are really quoting from is 1950 information. They don’t have the 1999 or 2000 information....

Q: The information you put out in your book. You’re talking about new things here.

Stinnett: That’s right. And this thirty percent, I feel they just don’t want to accept it, or they regard FDR as an icon who brought Social Security, and all that. But he also unified this country, and we were able to stop Hitler, you know, and the holocaust, and everything else that was going on. So, you could also say that this was a victory for President Roosevelt.

(It's important here to emphasize how Stinnett actually viewed this - his problem was not that it was done, but that it was concealed from the American public)

Q: Kimmel and Short were cut off from the intelligence loop.

Stinnett: They were cut off. And Congress, you know, last October, the Senate and the House, found that they were cut off. They made the finding. That would have never happened five years ago. Or ten, twenty years ago

Q: It happened because of the Freedom of Information Act?

Stinnett: I think so. And the Short and Kimmel families have credited my book with getting that through Congress.

Q: Did you ever read Clausen’s book? Colonel Henry Clausen was part of a Pearl Harbor investigation of November 1944. He wrote a book that was published in 1992 that claimed FDR didn’t have a foreknowledge of the attack.

Stinnett: Well, you know, I read that. But I fault Colonel Clausen because he had access to all of these military intercepts and he did not bring them out. And I think that was a crime for him to have done that. He should have been court-martialed for that.

Q: You infer in your book that at one point Clausen was probably trying to cover up for General Marshall’s actions of December 6 and 7.

Stinnett: I think so. You know, he was acting on the behalf of the Secretary of War. He had carte blanche with these intercepts.

Q: When was he acting on behalf of the Secretary of War?

Stinnett: Well, Clausen was authorized by Secretary of War Stimson to conduct the Pearl Harbor investigation in November 1944. He traveled to the Hawaiian monitoring stations and interviewed cryptographers but failed to obtain any evidence or testimony concerning the intercepts the Navy was making prior to December 7. So when Congress opened its Pearl Harbor investigation in November 1945 there were no pre-Pearl Harbor Japanese naval intercepts available. Clausen was told by Stimson to get the intercepts, but he didn’t do it.

(ahem ..... a truly great way to conduct an "official" investigation, no doubt .... )

Q: Did you ever talk with Clausen? Did he criticize you?

Stinnett: He died. I tried to contact him. He was an attorney in San Francisco, and I did write him but he would never answer me. I wanted to ask him why he didn’t obtain the intercepts. His book doesn’t address that major issue. He didn’t return my calls, and he never answered my letters. I guess he just didn’t want to be exposed to this. Clausen was obviously a part of the conspiracy that kept the pre-Pearl Harbor intercepts from Congress and the American public.

A really gnarly conspiracy, especially if you're an FDR hater, is certainly more fun, tho.

It's not really so much about hating Frankie, as much as it is about hating the actions of those in the political establishment (any political estabilishment - foreign or domestic) who would lie to and deceive those that they claim to represent. For it to happen in a country such as ours, espousing the ideals that it does, is perhaps the greatest tragedy of all ....

No .... wait a minute, actually the greatest tragedy is that it has become routine

 

[RLENT]

A statement of the problem (which, in essence, is political correctness, in the extreme):

Alexander Cοckburn - Things You Can't Say in America:
FDR knew about the attack on Pearl Harbor

 

[Turtle]

Complete ? ...... really ?

Is that fully complete ? Or totally complete ?

Whether you agree with it or not, whether you even will accept it or not, it's the only complete record of under-oath evidence that exists. Everything else is speculation and conjecture unless and until it is proven.

Like, unreleased JN25 decrypts. They're unreleased, therefore, we can deduce what they contain. Uhm, OK.

An official report ? ..... by Congress, no less !!!

No. It's not an official report by Congress. It is a collection of Congressional hearings, as well as other reports, some having been declassified or obtained under the Freedom of Information Act. It's not something that should be so easily dismissed without reading it, that's for sure.

From the Stinnett interview:

Q: Your research seems to prove that government conspiracies can exist. In your view, how many people would you say ultimately knew that Japan was going to attack Pearl Harbor, but kept quiet about it and covered it up before and after the event?

Stinnett: I cite about thirty-five people there in the book that most certainly knew about it. And it’s probably more than that.

The only thing I know about government conspiracies is that two people couldn't keep a white stain on a blue dress from coming out in short order. I have even less faith in thirty-five, and probably more than that, being able to keep much of anything under wraps. Not even one person had a guilty conscious, wrote a book with explicit instructions that it not be published until after their death. That's impressive, possibly even moreso than the grand conspiracy itself.

It's not really so much about hating Frankie, as much as it is about hating the actions of those in the political establishment (any political estabilishment - foreign or domestic) who would lie to and deceive those that they claim to represent. For it to happen in a country such as ours, espousing the ideals that it does, is perhaps the greatest tragedy of all ....

Let's say it's all true. OK, now what?

Hidden assassins and witless patsies, shadowy cabals, secretive meetings in smoky rooms. The truth is out there...somewhere... it's just being kept from the public by secret societies out to control the world (or save it, take yer pick). Call it apophenia (humans' tendency to see patterns in random data), or call it realities far too awful for the rest of us mere mortal to acknowledge (or even be allowed to be aware of)... for whatever reason, conspiracy theories have been a part of the human culture since Cain suspected God and Abel had a racket going. The US government faked the moon landing with Hollywood sets and props, because they had to deflect attention away from the giant face on the moon. Jack the Ripper was the Freemasons. For that matter, the Freemasons secretly control the world's governments, they worship a divine entity known as the Great Architect of the Universe, and seek the world's destruction so it can be rebuilt more perfectly, they have long infiltrated all aspects of American society, from the layout of Washington, D.C., to the mysterious symbols on the dollar bill. It's true, I'm tellin' ya. You don't think FDR came up with that crap on his own do ya?

The Freemasons are engaged in a secret war with the Bilderberg Group, tho, and both are fighting the One-World Government of the United Nations, who is having a heck of a time beating back the Skull and Crossbones Society, who had the Kennedy's kill Marilyn Monroe while she vacationed at Area 51 with Jack Ruby. If only they knew The Vatican is the one who actually secretly rules the world. Paul is dead, BTW. He was killed in a tragic Yellow Submarine accident while reading the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion who's prophesy foretold that 911 was an inside job, which the Black Helicopters confirmed while they were also confirming the chemical sprays contained with the airplane contrails.

Oh, and Shaquille O'neal is a clean-shaven yeti.

I believe it all. Or none of it. Don't make much difference either way.

 

[chefdennis]

LOL....... Good night Gracie!! and you too Jack!!