Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
You've got to be kidding about not finishing the war with Japan, Rlent! Are you some French tactical genius or something? Not everything is touchy-feely, ya know. War is hell!
barry BOWS AGAIN
- Thread starter chefdennis
- Start date
I can assure you Rlent is not kidding...
The Coalition ad Japan beat down..they were short of food, short of supplies..their industries crushed..Russians were closing in from the west..
It was a very tough call...
It is like saying we should have done the same to Berlin in the spring of 45..
Now there's a situation...
Why didn't we nuke Berlin?
jimby82
Veteran Expediter
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
WE did not start the war, but WE did end it.
And to the estimated costs of NOT invading Japan? Upwards of 250,000 additional estimated deaths PER MONTH for each month the war continued.
Source: Wikipedia
So if Japan would have been able to hold on for an additional year, would you have traded those killed in the bombings for the 3 million or so who would have perished by our inaction? What if they would have held on for 2, 3 years or even longer? Would starvation, disease and conventional bombing have been better ways to die?
dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
To the average American on the street, the President of America does not bow to any other world leader...and barry is continuing to show the weakness of America and making apologies for our country....that don't need to be made...he is nothing more then disassemblig our country from the inside out....from the top down...he is a weak coward...
Oh and the fact Dwight did in more then once, WAS a show of respect. has he had ALREADY proven that he had no problem going to war and killing and breaking things as we train our military to do, barry hasn't shown any such thing...all he has shown is his total weakness when it comes to dealing with world leaders and a total disregard for our military...he is weak....
Oh and the fact Dwight did in more then once, WAS a show of respect. has he had ALREADY proven that he had no problem going to war and killing and breaking things as we train our military to do, barry hasn't shown any such thing...all he has shown is his total weakness when it comes to dealing with world leaders and a total disregard for our military...he is weak....
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Don't forget that Bill Clinton got ridiculed in 1994 for sort of bowing to the Japanese Emporer: you don't suppose there's a double standard at work in the MSM is there?
THE WORLD; The President's Inclination: No, It Wasn't a Bow-Bow - The New York Times
Instead of the atomic bomb the allies had to use firebombs, which in many ways were just as deadly. The firebombing of Dresden destroyed much of the city and killed 40,000 or more people by some estimates. Hamburg was also firebombed with many casualties and tremendous damage. And don't forget the firebombing of Tokyo that came before the atomic bombs were dropped. The firebombs were particularly effective in this large Japanese city due to so many of the structures being make of wood. The death toll this exercise was in excess of 100,000, which was comparable to that of each atom bomb dropped. Kobe and Osaka were also firebombed, as were about 66 other Japanese cities. The Nazis also firebombed London and other British cities, so these weapons weren't exclusively used by the Allies.
THE WORLD; The President's Inclination: No, It Wasn't a Bow-Bow - The New York Times
Instead of the atomic bomb the allies had to use firebombs, which in many ways were just as deadly. The firebombing of Dresden destroyed much of the city and killed 40,000 or more people by some estimates. Hamburg was also firebombed with many casualties and tremendous damage. And don't forget the firebombing of Tokyo that came before the atomic bombs were dropped. The firebombs were particularly effective in this large Japanese city due to so many of the structures being make of wood. The death toll this exercise was in excess of 100,000, which was comparable to that of each atom bomb dropped. Kobe and Osaka were also firebombed, as were about 66 other Japanese cities. The Nazis also firebombed London and other British cities, so these weapons weren't exclusively used by the Allies.
jimby82
Veteran Expediter
After viewing the video online here, one word came immediately to mind: Amateur.
How many times did he have to bow to the Empress? Reminds me of one of those old fluid-filled toys you used to see that was shaped like a bird and would rock back and forth, eventually dipping its "bill" in a glass of water, then starting the whole process all over again.
How many times did he have to bow to the Empress? Reminds me of one of those old fluid-filled toys you used to see that was shaped like a bird and would rock back and forth, eventually dipping its "bill" in a glass of water, then starting the whole process all over again.
dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
Now that's funny there!! Thanks for the visual.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Okamoto Takeru, my Japanese protocol instructor. Go argue with him with your sources. He was one of the diplomats who represented the Japanese Imperial House in the 1960's here in the US and I think his experience speaks for itself. I think he is still teaching.
I have no clue what you are talking about with some article. I guess assumptions are dangerous.
I already know that, it is a given but the difference is we are talking about the president.
Sorry again, actually Obama doesn't know what he is doing, he is immature on the diplomatic front and foreign affairs. His bow was an apology and indication of servitude, he lost face with his people.
AND that's why he doesn't bow. The comment was to show a difference within the culture.
Open greeting is something that has to do with body language. If you ever watched diplomats in their environment, then you can see the difference, arm extended our, hand open, other arm by their side, positive posture, etc...
I don't think he is being advise well, that's the problem. The point can be illustrated by the DVD debacle and how that was handled. There are a core group who's job is to advise the pres on how to act and they would set this all up but he can take their advice or ignore it, or better yet he can listen to new advisors which I think he is doing. You don't give DVDs to a leader of a country, as much as your secretary of state doesn't give a red button to someone who isn't culturally in tune with what it means.
Actually that was the wrong spelling thanks to my lack of proof reading and this spell check which I hate.
But anywho, his lack of a decision on Afghanistan also shows me his immaturity. His delay shows our enemy the inability to make quick decisions to stop them and I think in the next coming months if there isn't a troop deployment of some sizable amount, we will be bled.
Now as for ending the war, you are taking the pacifist point of view that the war was lost - they would surrender and all that cr*p.
Are you clueless to what was going on at the top?
The Emperor was divided on trying to find a way to continue to fight to appease the Tojo and other "everyone dies in the end" cabinet members and the people who knew the war was lost. Go read "Hirohito" to start with and see what the author had written about, it tells a pretty good side of what was going on.
The only one who could have ended the war was the Emperor. It took those two bombs to push him to a decision, the firebombing of Tokyo and other cities form 1943 on didn't. It was the warning from the US through the swiss, the dropping of on bomb and then not waiting for a reply but dropping the second bomb that convinced him to stop the war.
If you want to frickn' kid yourself that we didn't do the right thing, learn about the fanatical attitude of the present day terrorist and than apply that to the Japanese because it was nearly the same. Why would 100 men who knew they would be dead decide to getup and run across a field only to get killed within feet of where they started?
Because they died for the Emperor.
Your attempt to equalize atrocities is sad. I mean we didn't have state sponsored medical experiments on prisoners, or civilians. Our biggest crime is Dresden which there was no reason for it AT ALL but the short list of 'crimes' that we committed didn't compare to the raping of Nanking and what happened in other Chinese cities, the live vivisection of POWs and civilians alike, the mass executions of civilians on some of the islands, the extermination of people based on religious beliefs and a great number of other horrible things. Oh I forgot to mention the medical experiments that were done in Tokyo at the Tokyo hospital on Chinese and Koreans children that were like the same ones Mengele did in German.
Trying to say we were in the wrong about our methods to stop a horrible war by any means, cheapens the lives lost on both sides during a war of aggression. To stop this aggression it took countless lives and so much material, that most today can't grasp the size of it. Instead we have idiots trying to say we were wrong, they ignore the fact that today the only reason that they can speak openly is the fact that those who faced evil, fought evil and won.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Oh you deleted your post, well here is my reply anyway.....
How? We didn't attack them, we didn't force their hand into a situation to invade Korea or China, we didn't make an agreement with others to attack Japan.
We cut off our supply of oil and scrap metal (the latter was a joke by the way) which they still had other sources, we were just cheaper. They still had supplies of food and rubber, two items they claim we were holding back ... and all of this was because of China.
But see they were planning on attacking us back into the late 30's when they were looking into expanding their pacific holdings near our territories, a plan that went back into the 20's.
Now it looks like we backed them into a corner because how things are revised, but again there are history books that said Lincoln freed all the slaves.
How? We didn't attack them, we didn't force their hand into a situation to invade Korea or China, we didn't make an agreement with others to attack Japan.
We cut off our supply of oil and scrap metal (the latter was a joke by the way) which they still had other sources, we were just cheaper. They still had supplies of food and rubber, two items they claim we were holding back ... and all of this was because of China.
But see they were planning on attacking us back into the late 30's when they were looking into expanding their pacific holdings near our territories, a plan that went back into the 20's.
Now it looks like we backed them into a corner because how things are revised, but again there are history books that said Lincoln freed all the slaves.
I deleted it because I didn't want to take on a forum full of Americans....sometimes retreat is a better option....
Most any credible historical account of the WW2 Pacific theater would emphasize the dedication of the Japanese to defend their homeland. To say they would have fought to the death of the last man or woman against an invasion is a gross understatement. It's been so long since our country was actually threatened by an aggressor, only our octagenarians actually understand the concept of war and what it takes to win one. The mushy liberal revisionism that masquerades as history being taught in our schools today only serves to fuel the feelings of self-loathing that the liberals feel we must have. It's no wonder that so many people do not recognize the threat from these Islamic terrorists.
Pilgrim...
actually us that are schooled outside the US have not been brainwashed aka taught strictly Americanism stuff....The old saying the victor gets the luxury of writing history no matter how much BS they write into it..and "some" people believe.... If I were a born American I'd believe the crap they teach in school as well...
actually us that are schooled outside the US have not been brainwashed aka taught strictly Americanism stuff....The old saying the victor gets the luxury of writing history no matter how much BS they write into it..and "some" people believe.... If I were a born American I'd believe the crap they teach in school as well...
It is protocol and etiquette to bow to royalty. If you follow ranking then a President is below a Royal Prince who is below a Queen and then a King. An Emperor is higher than a King. Hence it is protocol accepted around the world that you bow for respect of their position.
Rob
Rob
I'm sure respect could have been properly shown without assuming a proctological examination position and thereby not only being respectful of the emperor but also maintaining the respect of one's own position, provided of course that one had any respect for their own position, something lacking in our current apologist.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
So OVM I sat across from a WW2 vet at lunch, he is a marine who was in the first marine division. He fought and was wounded on Peleliu and the guy sitting next to him was in the same battle but also fought in the battle of Okinawa.
They reaffirmed what I have been told by brits, dutch and aussies who fought the Japanese too, what it was like and why they fought them. I can't understand why the UK which included your mother country would be fighting the Japanese when they didn't start the fight like some claim we did?
It comes down to the facts and the facts were written long ago as they happened and can't be changed. No brainwashing involved when you look at all sides. Today we ignore these facts in schools and tell the other side of the story instead, a softer side that the Japanese were not the aggressors but a peaceful people who was only minding their own business while they vacationed in China and it was us, the United States who put them into a position that they had to fight or be wiped of the face of the earth.
If you fall for that as near truth, then Hitler was only trying find a place to have a picnic along the Polish border and he kind of drove over the border with his Grosser Mercedes by mistake which started the war.
They reaffirmed what I have been told by brits, dutch and aussies who fought the Japanese too, what it was like and why they fought them. I can't understand why the UK which included your mother country would be fighting the Japanese when they didn't start the fight like some claim we did?
It comes down to the facts and the facts were written long ago as they happened and can't be changed. No brainwashing involved when you look at all sides. Today we ignore these facts in schools and tell the other side of the story instead, a softer side that the Japanese were not the aggressors but a peaceful people who was only minding their own business while they vacationed in China and it was us, the United States who put them into a position that they had to fight or be wiped of the face of the earth.
If you fall for that as near truth, then Hitler was only trying find a place to have a picnic along the Polish border and he kind of drove over the border with his Grosser Mercedes by mistake which started the war.
and that is what I was taught...American expansionism thru control of economics..American dominance around the world to have some control of its interests...
All presented in a world peace facade and helping others...when in fact it was just plain self interest of a capitalist nation..
Hey no problem with that, but at least it holds all governments lie.
All presented in a world peace facade and helping others...when in fact it was just plain self interest of a capitalist nation..
Hey no problem with that, but at least it holds all governments lie.
I spent 18 months in Japan I am well aware of the complexities of their traditions. I did NOT see what Obama did or did NOT do but there is NO excuse for getting it wrong if he did. It is HIS responsibility to be sure that he is well schooled in the proper greetings. Not his staff, HIS. After all his is the president. IF he did NOT understand he should have taken steps to fix it.
As to the WWII of the Japanese Military and government it would be a good idea to speak with those who lived through it.
Mrs. Layoutshooter's uncle was the "guest" of the Japanese on an interesting little walk called the "Batan Death March. I spoke with him on this subject prior to his death. This was AFTER my tour over there.
I did meet several people in Japan who were deeply ashamed of what their Government and Military did.
As to the WWII of the Japanese Military and government it would be a good idea to speak with those who lived through it.
Mrs. Layoutshooter's uncle was the "guest" of the Japanese on an interesting little walk called the "Batan Death March. I spoke with him on this subject prior to his death. This was AFTER my tour over there.
I did meet several people in Japan who were deeply ashamed of what their Government and Military did.
R
riverrat
Guest
saw it somewhere on a forum the if he is going to bow to the Japanese he will probably do a Lewinsky to the Chinese.