Armstrong Vs. Obama

davekc

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There are many reasons you would choose someone like Ryan because of the direct connect to Congress amongst other things. Budget experience on a national level is probably the biggest one.
With regards to taxes, Romney is making money off of interest earned from those investments. He already paid taxes on the income received to purchase the initial investments.
What came through inheritence from his father went to his church and charities.
But folks already have that option to give more than what they are currently taxed. Funny how no one pays more. Why is that?
Also might mention, when Romney was governor, he never collected a paycheck. Something that often is overlooked.
Several different angles to look at on something like this.
 

layoutshooter

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Everyone should pay the same RATE. Progressive taxes are designed to keep the rich, rich and everyone else where they are. EVERYONE should pay taxes. far too many on free rides, at both ends of the income scale.
 

davekc

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True on the taxes. EVERYONE should be paying something. The rich that hide it and the ones that get money back and never worked.
On a side note, I like Cheri's posts as it good to get a window on how the other side views things.
Always like to look at both sides on political issues.
 

cheri1122

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Dave: Romney didn't collect a paycheck for the same reason his wife never worked outside the home: he could afford it. That's NOT 'class envy', it's a statement of fact. I don't think he deserves praise for it, because it cost him nothing that he would miss - I'm more impressed by the charity of those who really can't afford it, but have to give anyhow, because they wouldn't feel right if they didn't.
LOS: I don't want to live on the moon, but if you do, I'll chip in for a ticket.
;)
 

Ragman

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Turn private industry loose and we will live on the moon in a few years.

23039106.jpg
 

layoutshooter

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Yeah, I bet you would chip in for that ticket! ;) The point was that government is holding back progress on every front. They are the primary cause of the problems we face and the reason that we have problems and not challenges to raise us up.

Man is at his best when challenged and let to His own devices to overcome. It is our nature. That is one of God's greatest gifts to Mankind, the will to overcome, achieve and rise above the strife. To not do this is to slight God.
 

cheri1122

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Yeah, I bet you would chip in for that ticket! ;)

Heck, I'd pay MORE than my fair share, even. [You know I wouldn't razz you if I didn't like you, I hope!]

The point was that government is holding back progress on every front.

'Progress" isn't always a good thing.

\
They are the primary cause of the problems we face and the reason that we have problems and not challenges to raise us up.

They are also the reason we have law & order & civilization, not to mention air and water that will not be poisoned [anymore] by the reckless pursuit of profit. Business was responsible for dumping toxic chemicals into the waterways, producing dangerously defective products, poisoned foodstuffs, blatantly false advertising - the list of dangers posed by business is long and bloody and scary, and it's the government that made them rein it in, because they weren't interested in 'policing' themselves, and still aren't.
If they were, we wouldn't be so worried that hackers might just decide to take out our water supply, or electric power grids, or whatever they find humorous [because they're not in the US] to mess with.
But the all powerful Chamber of Commerce threw a fit when Obama proposed minimum standards for cybersecurity, so the proposal was changed to voluntary standards, and they wouldn't accept those either!!!
We've been hearing for decades that lowering taxes & relaxing regulations on business is the path to prosperity, and they've been getting their way for years, so why isn't it working?
Romney/Ryan just keep parroting the same old approach that hasn't worked since Reagan espoused it, why would we expect it to work THIS time?




Man is at his best when challenged and let to His own devices to overcome. It is our nature. That is one of God's greatest gifts to Mankind, the will to overcome, achieve and rise above the strife. To not do this is to slight God.

Man is at his WORST when left to his own devices, or we wouldn't even need laws, would we?
 

Turtle

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I don't think Romney deserves any praise for not taking a paycheck, either. He was never shy to let anybody know that he wasn't taking a paycheck, as if that's supposed to make him just wunnerful, wunnerful, wunnerful. Even the Presidential salary is just walking around money to this guy. Not taking a paycheck wasn't much of a sacrifice and it must be viewed in the proper context.

Romney is far from the answer to our problems, but anything is better than what we currently have. All my life I've known, because of how the three branches of government work, that there's only just so much good, or damage, that one man can do (as President). Jimmy Carter tested that thinking, and proved to be the exception to the rule. Obama, on the other hand, has blown all that out of the water by raising the bar and setting the Gold Standard for failure and damage on an epic scale.

All you have to do is ask yourself one question: Are you better off now than you were four years ago?

Very few people can answer that question in the affirmative, and the country as a whole most certainly cannot. The only ones who can say YES to that question are the insurance, financial and health care industries, who also happen to control Congress in the most obvious and blatant ways.

Quite frankly, I'm most impressed by the charity of those who really can't afford it, but have to give anyhow, because the government forces them to give.
 

layoutshooter

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Retired Expediter
Yeah, I bet you would chip in for that ticket! ;)

Heck, I'd pay MORE than my fair share, even. [You know I wouldn't razz you if I didn't like you, I hope!]

The point was that government is holding back progress on every front.

'Progress" isn't always a good thing.

\
They are the primary cause of the problems we face and the reason that we have problems and not challenges to raise us up.

They are also the reason we have law & order & civilization, not to mention air and water that will not be poisoned [anymore] by the reckless pursuit of profit. Business was responsible for dumping toxic chemicals into the waterways, producing dangerously defective products, poisoned foodstuffs, blatantly false advertising - the list of dangers posed by business is long and bloody and scary, and it's the government that made them rein it in, because they weren't interested in 'policing' themselves, and still aren't.
If they were, we wouldn't be so worried that hackers might just decide to take out our water supply, or electric power grids, or whatever they find humorous [because they're not in the US] to mess with.
But the all powerful Chamber of Commerce threw a fit when Obama proposed minimum standards for cybersecurity, so the proposal was changed to voluntary standards, and they wouldn't accept those either!!!
We've been hearing for decades that lowering taxes & relaxing regulations on business is the path to prosperity, and they've been getting their way for years, so why isn't it working?
Romney/Ryan just keep parroting the same old approach that hasn't worked since Reagan espoused it, why would we expect it to work THIS time?




Man is at his best when challenged and let to His own devices to overcome. It is our nature. That is one of God's greatest gifts to Mankind, the will to overcome, achieve and rise above the strife. To not do this is to slight God.

Man is at his WORST when left to his own devices, or we wouldn't even need laws, would we?

Man is at his WORST when cared for. Welfare is PROOF! It kills the soul.

The most progress on things like pollution clean up etc, have NOT been done by government. MOST conservation work is NOT done by government. There are far more volunteer firefighters than government paid ones. The list is endless.

High taxes never work, look at Greece and most of Europe. FAILED. Look at the Soviet Union, FAILED.

Want it to work? Barring the very normal ups and downs of the business cycle that nothing can change, ONE low tax rate, NOT on income, on spending. Set the rate for a MINIMUM of 50 years. Consistency, or lack there of, is the problem. Remember, the recovery after Carters stupidity, when lower taxes were put into place was close to 8%. Obama's is not even 2%

Government cannot produce wealth, only steal it.

When Man does not face the challenges given to Him He becomes weak. Failure is only a problem when no lesson is learned and easy success promotes sloth.

God do not every offer a Man the chance to overcome a challenge that He was not first given the gifts to do so.

The winning is not the amount of what is gained, the winning is in putting forth extreme effort, an effort worthy of your best. Anything less is the worst failure a Man can have.
 

Turtle

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Man is at his WORST when cared for. Welfare is PROOF! It kills the soul.
Fact: the more money that is spent on entitlements to combat poverty, the higher the poverty rate. It's always, and I do mean always, been that way. There isn't a single instance in all of recorded human history where increased poverty spending has decreased poverty. Not one.
 

LDB

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There is a HUGE difference between the two. Romney is horrible and Obama is EVIL. If Obama wins, he will appoint 4 supreme court judges and that will be all she wrote. Voters will go to the polls and do one of three things.

1. vote FOR Obama because they want the USA to be destroyed and know he will do it or

2. vote AGAINST Obama by voting for Romney because that is the one way Obama may be defeated or

3. they will vote FOR Obama and the destruction of the USA by voting for anyone other than Romney or not voting at all.
 

Moot

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The Federal government has NO business in education, state or locale law enforcement or fire fighting. NONE.

Infrastructure? Like the roads they don't maintain?

The Federal Government doesn't maintain roads. The Federal Government allocates money to the states who then either maintain the federally funded roads themselves, disperse it to counties to maintain the federally funded roads or divert it to bike trails, light rail projects or education.
 

layoutshooter

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The Federal Government doesn't maintain roads. The Federal Government allocates money to the states who then either maintain the federally funded roads themselves, disperse it to counties to maintain the federally funded roads or divert it to bike trails, light rail projects or education.


Yes, but they often mandate certain uses for federal money, but you are correct.

How I should have worded it is more like, the feds should not be building ANY roads, other than the Interstate Defense highway system, which they SHOULD be maintaining. It should be part of the DOD budget. It is a National asset.

Other than that they should pack up and go home.
 

cheri1122

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Man is at his WORST when cared for. Welfare is PROOF! It kills the soul.

first it was 'left to his own devices', but when I rebutted that with undeniable truth, you changed it to 'cared for'. And then used one of your favorite unproveable soundbytes. No dice, not gonna fly. Too many people have been on welfare, then got off and worked to pretend that being on welfare means not having a work ethic. It means not having a job, and there's far too much of that because business can find cheaper labor [thus more profit] elsewhere.
Most people I know have a good work ethic - if you know a lot of folks whom don't, well, that's your problem. They are not the norm, I assure you.


The most progress on things like pollution clean up etc, have NOT been done by government.

Maybe so, but if business hadn't recklessly dumped toxic chemicals in the first place [then gone out of business rather than pay for the clean up] no one would have to do it.

MOST conservation work is NOT done by government. There are far more volunteer firefighters than government paid ones. The list is endless.

The conservation work is done by people who care, but the laws protecting land & water are the government - without them, there'd be strip mining and clear cut logging and nuclear reactors in everyone's back yards, because that's how 'for profit' works.

High taxes never work, look at Greece and most of Europe. FAILED. Look at the Soviet Union, FAILED.

Apples & razor blades. We don't live in Greece, Europe, or the Soviet Union.

Want it to work? Barring the very normal ups and downs of the business cycle that nothing can change, ONE low tax rate, NOT on income, on spending. Set the rate for a MINIMUM of 50 years. Consistency, or lack there of, is the problem. Remember, the recovery after Carters stupidity, when lower taxes were put into place was close to 8%. Obama's is not even 2%

Government cannot produce wealth, only steal it.

Do you ever stop with the sound bytes? Government can promote wealth, which they do in several ways, primarily the tax code. As the rich have been getting a LOT richer over the past decades, and the middle class poorer, it's not too hard to see whose wealth the government has been promoting,and the middle class is getting tired of it already.

When Man does not face the challenges given to Him He becomes weak. Failure is only a problem when no lesson is learned and easy success promotes sloth.

If that last statement had a whiff of truth, Mitt would be the laziest man in the country, lol.
Oh, and failure is a big problem when you've got kids going hungry!


God do not every offer a Man the chance to overcome a challenge that He was not first given the gifts to do so.

When you can prove God exists, you can use it in an argument.

The winning is not the amount of what is gained, the winning is in putting forth extreme effort, an effort worthy of your best. Anything less is the worst failure a Man can have.

Sounds like a self help book: trite and meaningless inspirational claptrap that sounds good and means nothing at all.
 

layoutshooter

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Retired Expediter
They are NOT sound bits, they are the beliefs and values I base my entire life on and should not be ridiculed.

When you can prove there is NO God, or Devil, I won't believe. You may do or believe what ever you wish, your choice. I speak my mind and heart.

Government the the greatest polluter in the country, not the solution. It has exempted itself from all it's own laws.

Government(s) have destroyed more, polluted more and killed more than any other group on earth. Government is by it's very nature, evil.

Those who look to the government for help sell their own abilities short. The more they whine about being held back, the more they hold themselves back.


Some of the most successful people I have ever known were dirt poor. They took GREAT pride, in what they had, they EARNED every bit of it. I admire people who, despite everything, they DO! I despise those who are given and do nothing and then whine they are oppressed. I have seen far too many overcome things that they should have never be able to do. THOSE are the truly successful people.

The fact is, the biggest cause of failure, besides government interference, can always be found by looking in a mirror.
 

davekc

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Ok.....maybe time for a reality check. Turtle hit on part of it. Throwing money at poverty does absolutely nothing. We are billions in to Chicago and look at that disaster.
Our biggest problem is we are 16 trillion dollars in the red and in a global economy. That is a huge problem. Can't raise taxes on businesses because they can go somewhere else. Just a reality.
Raise taxes on them and see what happens. Just the threat now has them sitting on the sidelines with billions. Much different than when Clinton was in because of a different environment globally.
The interest on the debt is huge. Huge enough enough that we are manipulating currency and printing money to keep up. That is a reality. Obama with his spend money on everything isn't helping and the primary reason he has to go. For those that disagree, how much longer can we keep on borrowing when every citizen owes 40k now?
Good, bad, or indifferent, the poor will be the first to feel the effects.
Another stimulus? You have to be kidding me. Look at the disaster of the last one.

Going after the rich means nothing. You could take every penny they have and you haven't even made a dent in the debt. The "fair share" garbage is nothing but a foolish distraction.

I certainly don't think Romney is the golden savior either. More of someone to at least slow the hemorrhaging.

Borrowing your way to prosperity has never worked. And that is where you can see what was successful or NOT in Europe.
Hint.....look at US cities currently filing for bancrupty.
NO MONEY.

And before I forget with regards to Romney not collecting a check, I don't think that is anything to dance in the isles about, but worth a look if the claim is he isn't paying his "fair share". Maybe he has and maybe he hasn't?
 
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layoutshooter

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All else put aside, when it comes to the type of person who I would like to see as president, I would MUCH prefer a Man who had the brain power, drive and courage to survive and thrive as a fighter pilot, test pilot, and land on the moon rather than a kid who got high and went to school.

Since Neil is long past running, and no one of that caliber has stepped up, Lassie would be a FINE choice.
 

jimby82

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We need a Leader. Really hasn't been one since Reagan. Someone who can inspire others and get things done. Maybe we need another actor, lol.
 

layoutshooter

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We need a Leader. Really hasn't been one since Reagan. Someone who can inspire others and get things done. Maybe we need another actor, lol.

That is why I have serious problems voting for Romney, besides his 'liberal' ideas. He just does not inspires others to greatness.

Another thing, if I hear another candidate spout off about how THEY are going to create millions of jobs I think I might puke. NO president can create jobs. It just gets SO old. If there is to be no quality candidate then Romney needs a FAR better speech writer, a campaign manager with is not afraid to try and win and some public speaking lessons.
 
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