Will you Step up?

Keeshond0622

Not a Member
Back in March, Jason Rivenburgh was shot & killed while resting in his truck approx 12 miles from his delivery, since he was early for his delivery.

His bride, Hope, was pregnant at the time and 2 weeks later gave birth to twins.

Hope and her family have picked up the gauntlet and are the "faces" behind an effort to create and fund more safe parking and rest areas for truckers. HR2156

GoTruckStop.com has started a fund raiser to help get Jason's Law (Hope's organization) to the GATS show. (GoTruckStop.com has donated their booth ... (Jason's Law is going to GATS in place of GoTruckStop - its a $1200 value)

GoTruckStop and Jason's Law are asking for your help in offsetting some of the expenses involved with getting to GATS. (ie room, air fare, meals ect.)

Let me make this clear .. the donations are going to Hope & Jason's Law ... not GoTruckStop.com (GoTruckStop.com is simply using their PayPal account as a payment method.)

Can you please help .. even a $1 or $2 donation would help.


 
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
It is sad that something like this happened, I read the details today and have been put in a simular situation in Memphis (a place I learned to hate).

I am concern with this proposed law, because it really doesn't address the causes of these problems many face.

A better and more proper way to write a law in order to prevent this from happening again is to allow us more flexibility in our HOS. Simply put it will allow us to split up the time in order to deliver when we are required to deliver, especially when we are doing regular drops, as in Jason's case. The HOS is not being addressed at all and it further puts us in more danger because we have no ability to use the time as we see fit as professional drivers.
 

Keeshond0622

Not a Member
A better and more proper way to write a law in order to prevent this from happening again is to allow us more flexibility in our HOS. Simply put it will allow us to split up the time in order to deliver when we are required to deliver, especially when we are doing regular drops, as in Jason's case. The HOS is not being addressed at all and it further puts us in more danger because we have no ability to use the time as we see fit as professional drivers.

Thinking about "chasing tilted windmills" lately?

The HOS regs are here to stay ... and whether changes happen in HOS regs or not ... we all have had atleast one time when all the truckstops in an area are full, the limited parking in rest areas are takedn, and there just isn't a safe place to park. We all have done it, especially in a big rig, parked on the ramp ... tried to find a safe place to park in violation of HOS or worse fatigued.

Since we are not talking about changes in HOS regs ... we are talking about pending legislation ... hey, can you spare a dollar or two ??

I'm sure it won't break you. And here we have a widow getting off her butt to do something for YOU !!

(Yes, I'm going to start throwing guilt here ... we, as drivers, need to get off our fat A$$E$ and support one of our own. Hope is not asking for a handout - we as drivers have taken it upon ourselves to say thank you to Hope Rivenburgh for her courage. Are you with us??)
 

Keeshond0622

Not a Member
It is sad that something like this happened, I read the details today and have been put in a simular situation in Memphis (a place I learned to hate).

I am concern with this proposed law, because it really doesn't address the causes of these problems many face.

Here are some points about the proposed legislation included in Jason's Law ...

About Jason's Law

1) On time supply is a common business practice used by most large corporations today. It lowers operating expenses because inventories are reduced. This business model can only be successful if goods can be shipped and delivered exactly when they are needed; therefore, most pick-ups and deliveries are made by appointment. However, virtually all shippers and receivers will only allow common carriers into their facilities long enough to load or unload. Truck drivers, on the other hand, must allow for circumstances such as traffic, equipment failure, weigh stations, and delays being loaded or unloaded that may delay them. Often they reach their destination early. Because they are not allowed into the facility until the appointed hour, they must find somewhere to “stage.” (This is exactly what Jason was doing when he was shot.) We have also heard many stories about drivers being “put out” of facilities (often by the police) when they have exceeded their hours of service and can no longer legally drive.

If shippers and receivers were required to let drivers stage inside their facilities up to twelve hours before and/or after their appointment in order for them to drive legally, this would not only give drivers a safe harbor, but it could take a percentage of the trucks out of the rush hour traffic and off secondary streets. Many companies do this for their own drivers.

2) For businesses that lack the required space or facilities for these drivers, the “bull pen” concept can be applied. An area off the highway but close to an industrial or warehouse area that is secure and has basic amenities where trucks can stage to wait to deliver or pick up a load. This could be paid for either by an association of the area businesses or a dedicated tax based on the number of docking doors a business has.​

Now, does this start to address some of your concerns?
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Actually, the above raises more concerns than it addresses. Requiring business to allow drivers to "stage" on their property isn't practical in most cases, and raises security (and liability) issues, as well for long term parking. The "bull pen" concept may work for industrial areas, but it will have little or no impact on the Krogers and Food Lions of the world.

The "bull pen" concept is also a fine description of a truck stop. But in reading the Web site, there seems to be a clear bias against struck stops stating the stereotypically common misconception, "virtually every truck stop has become a hot bed of activity for prostitutes, drug dealers and common thieves selling stolen goods." Yet the same types of things go on at rest areas, truck-only parking, and "Safe Haven" areas. It happens wherever large numbers of people have easy access to come and go, especially in places that are close to the highways. And while this stuff most definitely goes on at trucks stops, a truck stop parking lot is hardly the modern day Sodom and Gomorrah that some like to make it out to be. The more remote rest areas are where far more drug deals and violent crime happens.

Jason was parked at an abandoned gas station, a place where long haul truckers routinely park. It is right off the highway with easy access, same as the rest areas and "bull pen" idea. It is very much like the kinds of parking areas that the Web site wants to see, but for some reason it really wants rest areas instead of truck stops. The thing is, the crime rate is far higher in rest areas than in truck stops. On July 21th Virginia will close 18 rest areas, in no small part because of budget shortfalls, but also because of the crime rates of many of their rest areas and the lack of a budget to patrol them.

The Web site also says, "Most drivers we talk to will go to a truck stop to get fuel, a hot meal and a shower and then they look for a “quiet” place to rest, usually a rest area. If not a rest area, they find a place anywhere close to the highway so they can maximize the next day’s eleven hour driving time regulation." This may very well be an emotional and impassioned plea for more parking, but it's anecdotal recounting flies in the face of every truck parking study ever done, not to mention basic practicality. In order to maximize hours, few drivers will go to a truck stop and fuel, get a hot meal and a shower, and then take the time to go find a rest area. Most will fuel, eat, shower, and stay put in order to not waste time.

While there is no doubt that there is a severe truck parking problem, the authors and supporters of H.R. 2156 (Jason's Law) should make themselves intimately familiar with one of the most comprehensive studies yet on the subject, the Study of Adequacy of Commercial Truck Parking Facilities - Technical Report FHWA-RD-01-158,
(the PDF of the report here: http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pubs/01158/01158.pdf) prepared at the request of the National Highway Administration by SAIC Security Applications International Corporation) , a defense contractor that does many things outside the DoD and the Intelligence Community in selected commercial markets, one of which is Critical Infrastructure.

In the Executive Summary of the report it states, "For long-term rest (more than 2 hours), drivers overwhelmingly prefer commercial truck stops and travel plazas to public rest areas (78 percent to 6 percent, respectively). For short-term rest (less than 2 hours), drivers generally prefer public rest areas to commercial truck stops and travel plazas (45 percent to 19 percent, respectively).... Additional details surrounding the national demand for commercial vehicle parking and the national survey of driver needs and preferences can be found in section 2.0 of this report."

So while HR 2156 is a good beginning, it would be much better if they would take the data and recommendations of this study into account, as the study was done in the first place to conduct a "nationwide estimate of the peak-hour demand for commercial truck parking facilities resulting from the need to comply with Federal hours-of-service (HOS) rules."

The recommendations are all good ones, and they assume that the HOS rules are set in stone and cannot be changed, even though changing the HOS rules to what they are now in large part created the parking problems we are now faced with. Hope's Web site talks of staging areas and of removing trucks from rush hour traffic, yet it's the highly inflexible HOS rules that mandate drivers drive during rush hour when they could otherwise use their HOS much more effectively by splitting up a driving session around rush hour, instead of having to drive right through it to get to a staging area that shouldn't even be necessary.

The campaign to increase parking availability is a noble one, and a necessary one, but it is still treating a symptom instead of addressing the root cause of the problem. And it won't work with regard to rest areas, anyway. Trying to get additional rest areas built, or to expand existing ones, is almost certainly to be a failed effort. Rest areas all over the country are closing, simply because they cost too much to maintain, and other than the vending machines, provide no direct revenue to pay for their upkeep.

Federal law needs to be changed. In order to protect the small towns along the road whose survival often depended (and in some cases still depends) on roadside services, federal law "
will not permit automotive service stations or other commercial establishments for serving motor vehicle users to be constructed or located on the rights-of-way of the Interstate System." (clause 23 of USC § 111). The law doesn't apply to rest areas that were built prior to 1960, which is why you see commercial service plazas on the older roads like the Pennsylvania Turnpike.

For the states who have and will close many of their rest areas, a change in the law to allow privatization would go a long way to mitigating the problem of both short and long term parking with easy access. And the use of taxpayer money would be greatly reduced or eliminated for these facilities.
 

Keeshond0622

Not a Member
I would like to thank all that have read this thread, participated in the discussion and contributed to a worthy cause.

This thread was NOT designed to be a PIS*ING match !!

Some of you may agree with what I am about to say. Others may disagree with me. Others may say that I'm CRAZY.

That is your right, your privilege, and your opinion. And in this great country of ours ... we share that common bond.

This thread was designed to prove to our industry, to the public, and to ourselves that that the professional truck drivers of America can mobilize, get off their fat A$$es, and contribute to a worthy cause ... rather than argue, complain and just sit around and do nothing.

As of right now, we have raised a mere $560 - from over 4 million truck drivers in the USA - to get Jason's Law (Hope Rivenburgh) (see http://twitter.com/jasonslaw or Google Jason's Law) to Dallas TX for Great American Trucking Show.

Maybe you folks need to know exactly who I am.. not because I'm better than anyone ... but because I refuse to just sit around and do nothing.

My name is TJ Graff .. I own GoTruckStop.com. I'm not looking for praise ... but I was looking for my fellow drivers to help.

I have been a trucker since 1992. Have driven ALL 48 and Canada, drove in Iraq twice and worked in Afghanistan ... in support of our troops. No better and no worse than all of you.

I give a D*MN about what happens in this country ...I give a D*MN about my fellow drivers, I give a D*MN about an industry that doesn't give a D*MN about itself ... I give a D*MN about a family that lost their father needlessly because of 2 punks ... I give a D*MN about a wife that wakes up every morning knowing that her husband didn't have to die ... I just give a D*MN.

Will you??

 
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
TJ,
I will repeat what I said, it is sad that this happened but it does not address the cause of the problems. After reading the law, it does not specify a thing about some immediate action but allows eligibility of funding for future projects and sets some allocation of funds that could be used. Is it a first step? Yes but nothing about the root cause of why there is this problem in the first place.

Say the law passes and I have to deliver to a place near my house but I am early, so the guard tells me to park over in the corner. I get hit by another truck backing in - so in my state, if the owner of the place tells me where to park they assume any and all liability for my vehicle and it's contents regardless if I am at fault or not. I now can sue the owners of the place for damages and losses. Seeing many of our lawyers know this law, I would not have a problem finding one to take the case to court. The owners will lose, no doubt, and it will cost them a lot of money because of the on the road time lost, etc, so who would allow me on their property in the first place? This law can not nullify the state law, it has been tried before.

See even if we have a safe haven on property, it does not address why we have to rush to drive in order to make a delivery or the need to stage things at the delivery. If we are allowed to use our HOS as we see fit, like take two hour sleeper breaks within the 14 hours or split our time up in two hour blocks, then this stuff wouldn't happen. The drivers could judge their needs not with a one fits all HOS but one that is conducive to the vast variety of situations we work in.

Don't get frustrated with the amount of money that has been raised, general truckers are cheap. You are not dealing with 4 million truckers but 4 million people who work in this industry at all types of jobs. I divide them up in the general groups, more likely than not most of them who drive for larger carriers and they are the cheapest and least interested in changing things. They don't care, the company takes care of things and that's about it.
 

Keeshond0622

Not a Member
TJ,


Don't get frustrated with the amount of money that has been raised, general truckers are cheap. You are not dealing with 4 million truckers but 4 million people who work in this industry at all types of jobs. I divide them up in the general groups, more likely than not most of them who drive for larger carriers and they are the cheapest and least interested in changing things. They don't care, the company takes care of things and that's about it.

Sir, in your own words ... I am including you in that group ... like it or not !!

But I think you are WRONG !!!

For I have a much higher regard for my fellow truckers ...
 
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highway star

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
A fine example of "feel good" legislation. If it passed, what are the chances that it would have any impact on the level of violent crimes against truckers? We can only speculate, but I suspect very little chance. Crimes like this are random and will happen, period.

"But, if it only saves one person..."

"We have to do something..."

We'll never legislate away random acts of violence. I'll save you the trouble TJ, I don't agree with you so I'm an idiot.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Who's in a pіssіng contest? Or is it that you're just pіssed because people aren't standing in line to donate money to pay for someone's expenses to get to GATS for reasons that are unclear? Perhaps if you would explain why Jason's Law needs a booth at the GATS in the first place, that would help a lot. I fully understand the need to get the word out about Jason's Law, and if the GATS were taking place on Capitol Hill I could understand it a little better, but I can't see how lobbying Congress from a Dallas truck show is going to be very effective. You seem awfully angry that people here are talking about the actual issues involved instead of just stepping up and throwing money to help pay for the travel expenses of the Rivenburgs and the Hardendorfs. Paying their expenses is a fine thing, and donating your booth to the effort is admirable. But getting the word out and handing out pamphlet and brochures is going to be wholly ineffective in getting the Bill into law.

HR 2156 is in the House, and Senate Bill S 971 was introduced by Senator Schumer and has been sent to the Committee on Environment and Public Works, so it would seem that at this point Congressman and Senators are the ones to be lobbied to get the bill passed into law. I fail to see how paying someone's expenses to the GATS will accomplish that. Signing electronic petitions have proven to be utterly ineffective, as well, since petitions must be verified and broken down by voting district to be valid. In any event, the Bill is a Band-Aid and not a solution. But it is also a non-threatening Bill that is likely to be passed into Law, as written, without a fight, because it really accomplishes nothing.

It sets aside money for possible future projects, but only $20 million a year for a 6 year pilot program. It costs, on the average, about $500,000 per year per to maintain one rest area, and $5 million to build one. Virginia is closing 18 of 'em. Colorado, Maine, Louisiana and Vermont have already closed several, and other states are looking to do the same. Potholes and bridges need the money more than the rest areas do. Virginia is adding 225 truck parking spots in the remaining 23 rest areas, and they are also removing the 2-hour parking limit to allow for the mandated 10 hour break period. That'll help, but it also means that the average distance between rest areas will now be 120 miles instead of 60, which means more fatigued drivers and/or drivers parked on the shoulder because they ran out of hours. But if the money were used solely for the construction of new "safety rest areas" or the re-opening of existing ones, they still wouldn't be sustainable because taxpayer money will be required to sustain them.

Other possible solutions provided for in the Bill are truck turnouts, but these are always less safe and secure than a rest area, and rest areas are far less safe and secure than a truck stop. Expanding existing truck stop parking, or constructing lots adjacent to the existing truck stops would certainly help, but they have to be maintained, as well. Like I said, the Bill is a good one, even if it will be ineffective, because it will get people looking at the problem of truck parking. And even if all it accomplishes is being able to notify drivers of the availability of public and private parking spots via the intelligent transports or roadside signs will be worth it.

But the federal law itself needs to be changed to allow for the privatization of rest areas, with a mandate for greatly expanding truck parking spots in those rest areas. The rest areas will then be self-supporting and no taxpayer money will be needed to maintain them.

Your posts in this thread are rife with emotional tugs and flag-waving to get people to donate money. But to what cause?

Professional truckers unite! Stand up! Give a dаmn! Make a difference! Hope has three kids. Hope needs help, but instead of donating money to the Jason Rivenburg Memorial Fund c/o Trustco Bank 1900 Altamont Ave. Rotterdam, NY 12303, where your donations will have a very real impact on the lives of those three kids, donate instead to help offset the GATS expenses for GoTruckstop.com! A worthy cause, indeed!

Right or wrong, that's the way it reads. Especially in the light your your detached <cough, cough> third person comments about GoTruckstop.com in the GPS threads:

http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/general-expediter-forum/35681-gps-units.html#post300493

http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/general-expediter-forum/35681-gps-units.html#post300586

http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/general-expediter-forum/34632-gps-truck-routes.html#post283087

One can see why your comments here might be taken not with a grain of salt, but with an entire salt lick. The problem is you brought something to EO out of context from askthetrucker.com and got mad because most here don't know the context. I know what the context from askthetrucker is, but I also know what the real, actual issues actually are.

So, do you really want to stand up and "just give a D*MN" and deal with the real issues and how to fix them, or do you want to continue to stand there pіssin' into the wind?

Oh, and here's a real hoot for ya... I've never driven a big truck or a straight truck. I drive a cargo van. But I know what the real issues are. And I'm an idiot.
 

Keeshond0622

Not a Member
Thank you for your thoughts.

If you directed as much energy to helping to promote Jason's Law as you have here in your attempts to trash me ... you would be a great asset to the the trucking industry.

In your recent rant you have shown just how much of atrue man you are.

Hope Rivenburgh has much more courage and strength in her linttle pinky than you have in your entirity.

Have a great day.
 

pelicn

Veteran Expediter
"Trashing" is not what is happening here. Turtle and Greg are making valid points. If you really want to get the word out, and make a difference, GATS isn't the place to do it. At GATS you will only be preaching to the choir. Truckers know the problems out here (van drivers do too ;) ) As sad as the situation is, it was a random act and like Highway star said, you can't legislate random acts. We all need to be more aware of our surroundings and do our best to avoid situations that might put us in danger.
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
As sad as the situation is, it was a random act and like Highway star said, you can't legislate random acts. We all need to be more aware of our surroundings and do our best to avoid situations that might put us in danger.

Excellent advice!
 

Keeshond0622

Not a Member
"Trashing" is not what is happening here. Turtle and Greg are making valid points. If you really want to get the word out, and make a difference, GATS isn't the place to do it. At GATS you will only be preaching to the choir. Truckers know the problems out here (van drivers do too ;) ) As sad as the situation is, it was a random act and like Highway star said, you can't legislate random acts. We all need to be more aware of our surroundings and do our best to avoid situations that might put us in danger.

If GATS isn't ... then please tell where is???


Hmmmm....?????

At GATS, Hope Rivenburgh will have an opportunity like none other ... to meet with the players of the industry, as well as many drivers ... to help educate and inform over 20,000 in 3 days about the proposed legislation.

At GATS, the folks with Jason's Law will have an opportunity to gain over 20,000 signatures to the petition to encourage Congress to act. And these will be signatures from those most greatly effected by the legislation ... YOU !!

Hope and her group are not looking for anything in return ... she is doing this out of the generosity of her heart. And the realization that through her husband's murder, she and her family can make a difference.

Hope Rivenburgh didn't write the legislation, HR2156 and S971. It is pending legislation written by, presented by and sponsored by a number of Congressman and Senators.

This legislation starts to address a number of issues that have been plaguing the trucking industry since I started driving in 1992 ... and many years prior ... the lack of adequate and safe parking for truckers.

Are you aware that Virginia is CLOSING 18 rest areas this week !!

Read this ... Va. About to Close 18 Rest Stops


Or how about this ... New Mexico to consider closing rest areas

Or this ... Vermont considers closing more roadside rest areas

Truckers complain that no one cares about the trucker ... yet when you have someone doing something for you ... you trash them, disparage them, and ridicule others that are supporting their actions.

In all honesty, you make me sick to my stomach to say that you are part of the industry that I am proud to be part of.
 
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
OK, here is the thing. After reading the first post again I am going to offer you some advice because honestly threads like this are tiring to read with all the bickering.

I have worked with many non-profit organizations and did a bunch of fund raising, pro-bono travel arranging and so on. Not as good as I used to be but good enough to offer some advice.

The first thing is, you are too negative over the opposing point of view on this issue. You don't mount a good defense for your cause when you poo-poo something legitimate like HOS. This business is a great one that illustrates why trucking is diverse and what are real issues for some are not for others - YOU need to respect that and others if you expect the help. Otherwise you sound like it is about YOU.

The second thing is, if Hope (and Family) is to go to GATS than there are ways other than asking for money donations. Have they asked a hotel in the area to put the family up for the duration of the show? Restaurants may pitch in for dinners? Has anyone thought of asking one of the airlines to pitch in to get them there (also corporations who fly to Dallas may have room on their jets) or better yet how about some truckers helping out by actually driving them there to make a show of solidarity? How about GATS organizers helping make some arrangements? Hey here is one, DID you figure out how to leverage the PR from this to get coverage while they are at the show? I can go on and on about these things because I did a lot of them.

The third thing is, are these legal donations? I mean that who is disclosing the actual use of the money? I would hate to think that some of the money is used for other things.

The fourth thing is, and listen carefully....... when you do anything for someone or a cause, get yourself together and put specifics on your website (including your signature line on forums) of what is going on. This includes who is going to do what BEFORE you ask for any help from the "trucking public" - example "Northwest Airlines will provide tickets to and from Dallas for the family". It shows the commitment to your cause and to your credibility. The reason that no one likes to give to people is that they have to be sold on the cause and it starts with the right attitude and the right information to the people you are going to ask. If you don't believe me, then get a charity fund raising consultant and pay them because my advice is free and they will tell you the same exact thing for a price.

AND FINALLY;

If I was going to do this, (this is the concise version) I would start with arranging a trip to GATS via Washington. Call the congressman who sponsored the bill to arrange the Washington part of the trip and to get the press moving on my side. The press will be needed for both the stops at the capital and at GATS. Use some other people's stories (this is not the only one and surely not the saddest one) to justify the law and bring others into the fold to help get the word out. That the capital and there are a lot of people looking for a cause.

Oh and one last thing before I forget.... There are a number of smaller shows that may be more effective but more likely than not, GATS will not generate enough concern for the bill as you may expect.

There I helped out a lot, now take the advice.
 

Keeshond0622

Not a Member
Thank you for all your sound advice ... maybe you need to direct it to the folks at Jason's Law. I'm confident that they will appreciate your sound advice.

Here is the web site ...

Jason's Law

And here is how you can email them with all your great suggestions... Contact Jason's Law

BTW, you are aware that Hope has twin infants 3 months old ... you want them to ride in a big rig from Albany, NY to Dallas TX??

You are a sport, aren't you?

Why is it so hard for you to take your hands out of your pockets ... instead of putting your mouth in gear? I'll never understand some in my industry.
 
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