Whirlwind Express

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
One of their ex O/O's is a friend of mine and he has posted on this thread...He said today (as we sit in laredo) that WW has no office building overhead or the related expenses that go with even leasing a building to work from, they run this business from their home..their dispatchers are setup to work from home...Now thats all well and good for a small startup as they get going...but when you lack that kind of normal business expense and are factoring your invoices to get paid asap and you aren't paying your contractors for what it looks to be up to an overly extended amount of time, something ain't right....:eek::confused:
 

lhannah

Active Expediter
I have no part in the actual accounting done here. So obv. I can't give a complete response.

There are any number of reasons pay may be slightly delayed. However, 8 weeks is crazy and should never happen. If anyone with those complaints would like to send me a message or email me some information. I will do all I can to get your problem fixed. levi(at)whirlwindexpress(dot)com

I know we don't factor the majority of our freight.

The wait period on pay is explained to everyone that calls and talks to recruiting. I know this because I personally take most of those calls. This doesn't mean that any further delay in pay is acceptable at all.
 
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cableguymn

Seasoned Expediter
I have no part in the actual accounting done here. So obv. I can't give a complete response.

There are any number of reasons pay may be slightly delayed. However, 8 weeks is crazy and should never happen. If anyone with those complaints would like to send me a message or email me some information. I will do all I can to get your problem fixed. levi(at)whirlwindexpress(dot)com

I know we don't factor the majority of our freight.

The wait period on pay is explained to everyone that calls and talks to recruiting. I know this because I personally take most of those calls. This doesn't mean that any further delay in pay is acceptable at all.


Thank you for sticking your neck out. I won't cut your head off. But your company is starting to get a bad rep with the drivers. Even a 30 day wait is pushing it with many drivers. Fuel is spendy, and 30 days worth is something many drivers can't afford to float.

If TPTB at your company continue to operate paying 45-60-90 days out/late you won't be able to get any of us to haul for you.
 

lhannah

Active Expediter
Thank you for sticking your neck out. I won't cut your head off. But your company is starting to get a bad rep with the drivers. Even a 30 day wait is pushing it with many drivers. Fuel is spendy, and 30 days worth is something many drivers can't afford to float.

If TPTB at your company continue to operate paying 45-60-90 days out/late you won't be able to get any of us to haul for you.

I appreciate the courtesy. I wish I had seen the thread earlier so I could have been better prepared to defend us. haha. Honestly though we understand the 30 day wait is a long time. We are working on a plan to shorten that wait.

I would also like to stress that not every driver/owner keeps organized records and complete financial records. So I would imagine things are not always as bad as they may appear. In fact, I worked directly with a fleet owner who had numerous vans and never had any clue what loads were ran, when, where, and for how much. He would call daily completely confused and then question us as if we weren't paying him. Not to say that anyone in this thread handles their business that way. Just that there are two sides to every story.

Also, I want to make it clear I am not making excuses. You all do the work and you deserve to get paid in the exact manner your contract states. I have yet to receive any messages or emails so I assume there are no current issues that are not being addressed?

Sorry for the long winded response.
 

TSexpediter

Seasoned Expediter
I have no part in the actual accounting done here. So obv. I can't give a complete response.

There are any number of reasons pay may be slightly delayed. However, 8 weeks is crazy and should never happen. If anyone with those complaints would like to send me a message or email me some information. I will do all I can to get your problem fixed. levi(at)whirlwindexpress(dot)com

I know we don't factor the majority of our freight.

The wait period on pay is explained to everyone that calls and talks to recruiting. I know this because I personally take most of those calls. This doesn't mean that any further delay in pay is acceptable at all.

I think is time to start with a factoring company. Better pay 5% and have a good reputation than save that 5% and have a bad one. Drivers shpould be paid after 2 weeks not after 6-8 weeks. Think about the drivers who pays for gas and receive the money after 1-2 months....
 

gotta go

Veteran Expediter
Does anyone here know anything about Whirlwind? Such as how much do they pay and do they pay weekley?
Perhaps the OP wouldn't mind if I change spelling for him/her . . . do they pay weakly? Looks like the answer would be yes.

In the interest of full disclosure I was leased on with WW, as truck #002. I hauled their first load and when I delivered on 12/26/08, I was told that I had just completed their last. :(
 

Rocketman

Veteran Expediter
Perhaps the OP wouldn't mind if I change spelling for him/her . . . do they pay weakly? Looks like the answer would be yes.

In the interest of full disclosure I was leased on with WW, as truck #002. I hauled their first load and when I delivered on 12/26/08, I was told that I had just completed their last. :(


Wow... you must have REALLY impressed 'em :D
What did ya do, ask to be paid on time? Lol
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I'll just cut to the chase. You either pay in a timely manner or you don't. 30 days to pay a contractor is pathetic.
Why would you be looking at a way to possibly shorten it?
One shouldn't be in business until they can.
It would be a cold day as a fleet owner that I would float 30 days of revenue because a carrier can't figure out how to control their cash flow. I can just imagine my drivers response if I told them, well I have decided to pay on 30 days now.
Hilarious to say the least.
 

lhannah

Active Expediter
I think is time to start with a factoring company. Better pay 5% and have a good reputation than save that 5% and have a bad one. Drivers shpould be paid after 2 weeks not after 6-8 weeks. Think about the drivers who pays for gas and receive the money after 1-2 months....

I appreciate the comment. We have been making plans to improve the situation before this ever started. Obviously though the decision is more complex than simply choosing a factoring company.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I appreciate the comment. We have been making plans to improve the situation before this ever started. Obviously though the decision is more complex than simply choosing a factoring company.

That I don't disagree with. It does take some doings to get everything in place. I think you put the cart before horse.
One needs to have all of their financial vehicles in place PRIOR to accepting any owner operators/contractors.
If it were me and you now have the problem, I would halt any new contractors from coming in and pay a stipend of sorts to existing contractors that are floating those unpaid additional monies.
Once you are back on track, then proceed to expand.
Of course that is just what I would do.
 
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lhannah

Active Expediter
I'll just cut to the chase. You either pay in a timely manner or you don't. 30 days to pay a contractor is pathetic.
Why would you be looking at a way to possibly shorten it?
One shouldn't be in business until they can.
It would be a cold day as a fleet owner that I would float 30 days of revenue because a carrier can't figure out how to control their cash flow. I can just imagine my drivers response if I told them, well I have decided to pay on 30 days now.
Hilarious to say the least.

First of all, I dont appreciate your tone but I am going to ignore that because this is a forum and it is hard to judge someone based on text.

If a contractor shouldn't wait 30 days for pay? Why should my company have to wait 60-90 days to get paid? Who makes these judgements.

So my company shouldn't be in business now? Because you know exactly how every business should be run and if another company does something a little different they are not only wrong but pathetic?

I am not saying it works for everyone. We realize that and are going to improve in order to satisfy our owners. However, we have plenty of O/Os that thrive with our company. We still manage to carry a decent amount of freight every day. I have O/Os signing with us on a regular basis and they are always told up front about the pay schedule. So obviously we are providing a service that meets a need. I don't need to justify our existence to you past that statement.
 

lhannah

Active Expediter
That I don't disagree with. It does take some doings to get everything in place. I think you put the cart before horse.
One needs to have all of their financial vehicles in place PRIOR to accepting any owner operators/contractors.
If it were me and you now have the problem, I would halt any new contractors from coming in and pay a stipend of sorts to existing contractors that are floating those unpaid additional monies.
Once you are back on track, then proceed to expand.
Of course that is just what I would do.


If I pay later than the contract they signed says I should then you are correct. All of these owners were told upfront how the pay works. I explain it to them in the first conversation we have, it is in the contract, and they hear it again when we actually put them in service.
 

TSexpediter

Seasoned Expediter
'If a contractor shouldn't wait 30 days for pay? Why should my company have to wait 60-90 days to get paid? Who makes these judgements.'

It is not the contractor ,the driver responsibility to collect the money for the load. It is your responsibility as a carrier.And the 30 days in reality is 40-50 days after he delivered the load.. You know that...
 

lhannah

Active Expediter
'If a contractor shouldn't wait 30 days for pay? Why should my company have to wait 60-90 days to get paid? Who makes these judgements.'

It is not the contractor ,the driver responsibility to collect the money for the load. It is your responsibility as a carrier.And the 30 days in reality is 40-50 days after he delivered the load.. You know that...

I never said it was his job to collect the money. You missed the point entirely.
 

blizzard2014

Veteran Expediter
Driver
'If a contractor shouldn't wait 30 days for pay? Why should my company have to wait 60-90 days to get paid? Who makes these judgements.'

It is not the contractor ,the driver responsibility to collect the money for the load. It is your responsibility as a carrier.And the 30 days in reality is 40-50 days after he delivered the load.. You know that...

Agreed. I also think that shippers should have a 100k surity bond for when they fail to pay brokers and carriers what is owed to them. That's probably never going to happen though!
 

LisaLouHoo

Expert Expediter
The experience with WW slow pay did cost them 3 drivers in one day which we assume went unnoticed. Luckily my boyfriend had the capital in his business account to pay his drivers so they never went without; however phone calls stopped being returned by the owner (and she used to be very good about that). Same email theme, "Didn't get BOL"; when the email confirmation of the same BOL was sent back to prove they did receive it, that would be followed up by "I sent that check last week". Three to four days later the check would arrive with the postmark dated the day of or after the email stating it was already mailed days before.

It was understood that, when my boyfriend contracted with WW that pay would be 30 days. Then the contract was amended to 35. He accepted that, he could live within that window. However he could not accept 35 days becoming 40 then 60 then 96 with one excuse after another. The fear they would go under and still owe $$$$ was very real. You can imagine, with how often Whirlwind kept him and his drivers moving, that it didn't take long (less than 35 days) to amass thousands of dollars due.

Not once was he told WW was awaiting payment from the source. Therefore, he had no idea what was really going on. The excuses given plus actions taken by WW made him wary enough to pull his drivers and self from their roster.

Two of his expediting colleagues have since followed suit.

With the thousands of expediters on the road, WW will have drivers at their disposal for some time; but not forever. This will eventually catch up to them; expediters don't just post on EO. They talk in truckstops and WalMart parking lots all over the country. Word gets out.

Sent from my ADR6300 using EO Forums
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
'If a contractor shouldn't wait 30 days for pay? Why should my company have to wait 60-90 days to get paid? Who makes these judgements.'

It is not the contractor ,the driver responsibility to collect the money for the load. It is your responsibility as a carrier.And the 30 days in reality is 40-50 days after he delivered the load.. You know that...

And that right there is the problem as posted. As for the carrier waiting to get paid 60-90 days, the carrier takes that on if he is going to do business with slow payers.
The good news is there are only a few carriers that engage in this practice. You don't see a bunch of carriers here telling a contractor they have to wait 30 days or more to be paid.
Sorry for the tone, but I have little patience for gameplayers.

This thread dovetails nicely with Lawrences post.
Ten Commandments of what your M.C. owes YOU...the O.O.
 

Treadmill

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
And that right there is the problem as posted. As for the carrier waiting to get paid 60-90 days, the carrier takes that on if he is going to do business with slow payers.
The good news is there are only a few carriers that engage in this practice. You don't see a bunch of carriers here telling a contractor they have to wait 30 days or more to be paid.
Sorry for the tone, but I have little patience for gameplayers.

This thread dovetails nicely with Lawrences post.
Ten Commandments of what your M.C. owes YOU...the O.O.

I have never worked for this company but I feel that if a carrier wants to do business they should have the capital on hand to pay their drivers when that payday is whether it is daily, weekly, monthly or whatever else day they choose to agree to pay on. Eventually this will catch up to them in the long run.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I have never worked for this company but I feel that if a carrier wants to do business they should have the capital on hand to pay their drivers when that payday is whether it is daily, weekly, monthly or whatever else day they choose to agree to pay on. Eventually this will catch up to them in the long run.

I would agree. The excuse of delayed pay because a broker/shipper doesn't pay for 60/90 days is foolish.
As a fleet owner, this would be the same as stalling the drivers pay 30 days or more because I have a truck repair. If I can't afford to fix my trucks, I shouldn't be in business.
One has to have standards and I see no difference between the two.
I am just surprised that someone is trying to defend this practice.
 
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