Welfare Recipients Driving $15,000 cars

[Camper]

You miss the point again. I am talking merely cash that is spendable.

Yes, with all the benefits the total compensation is ovet $100k. But one can't pay a mortgage or buy a car or groceries with their Blue Cross or Legal Services benefits.

To state they "make" over $100k is true but misleading. The ACTUAL MONEY is less.

Wrong? Hardly. I have lived the GM life since birth

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"Bruises fade and bones will mend-but a psyche can be ruined FOREVER" : LisaLouHoo, c. 2008

You just made my point..The point being, that the total compensation is over $100k. As for it not being all cash, well, welcome to the real world where the total compensation for many doesn't even total the cash portion of what UAW workers get.

If you want to know what many would deem a fair wage for these assembly line human bots, ask your local Walmart cashier what he/she makes and therein lies your answer.

As for your last sentence, that proves my other point which I won't post because I'd probably be banned.



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[LisaLouHoo]

You just made my point..The point being, that the total compensation is over $100k. As for it not being all cash, well, welcome to the real world where the total compensation for many doesn't even total the cash portion of what UAW workers get.

If you want to know what many would deem a fair wage for these assembly line human bots, ask your local Walmart cashier what he/she makes and therein lies your answer.

As for your last sentence, that proves my other point which I won't post because I'd probably be banned.



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Say it say it....dare ya .

For full effect, you should have quoted my entire post, not just pick and choose what part of the text you felt made you look good. Now...back to the subject of the original post...

"Bruises fade and bones will mend-but a psyche can be ruined FOREVER" : LisaLouHoo, c. 2008

 

[Camper]

Say it say it....dare ya .

For full effect, you should have quoted my entire post, not just pick and choose what part of the text you felt made you look good. Now...back to the subject of the original post...

"Bruises fade and bones will mend-but a psyche can be ruined FOREVER" : LisaLouHoo, c. 2008

There isn't any way of saying it without the use of colorful language.

BTW...The next time you want to gripe about those who are fed up with this union entitlement mentality, just remember, we the tax payers are paying for those survivor benefits you're probably getting from the company our tax dollars bailed out.



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[OntarioVanMan]

Those quoted number on average wages, seems they are the same ones from 5 years ago??? How does does making 14$ an hour and reduced benefits now translate into that much?
Just one I know of Ford Truck in Leweyvile took a 10 buck an hour cut in wages....

 

[chefdennis]

OVM, you delivered to the Lake Orion GM plant a week or so ago, I believe they reopened that plant with "sub" (lower then the norm) union scale wage union workers...

It is well known here that I have no use for the unions, but please, as Lisa pointed out, anyone not working for GM would jump at the chance to work for them and get paid those wages...saying you wouldn't, is BS....

Are they worth the wages they get? Well, if the company is going to pay them, then the prevaling wage is want they should get...doesn't matter if I think they are worth it or not...I certainly do think pro ball players are worth the millions they get, but more power to them if they can get it...

As for the welfare system....my take is well known, so, using a "asset" based system is fine...and as the article pointed out, thats how is use to be....but beyond that, they also need to go back to the 26 weeks and emergency extension of no more then 52 weeks....99 weeks!! And barry wants to increase it again....

 

[LisaLouHoo]

There isn't any way of saying it without the use of colorful language.

BTW...The next time you want to gripe about those who are fed up with this union entitlement mentality, just remember, we the tax payers are paying for those survivor benefits you're probably getting from the company our tax dollars bailed out.

See what you don't know? My survivor benefits are covered by a separate insurance policy that my late husband paid for out of pocket. If one doesn't choose to insure their pension then their survivors get nothing. Your precious taxes aren't supporting my $12,000 a year survivor pension. That was, is, and will be a separate entity from the bailout.

Smart folks who work there also take a portion of their good pay and invest it in separate major life insurance policies...for death is the only promise life will carry through with. These policies are NOT funded by GM, but a group rate is offered with GM affiliation.

Health insurance for retirees and surviving spouses comes out of a different kitty, too. It didn't used to, but now it does and every retiree and widow pays a monthly contribution now. Which is cool, because the coverage is phenomenal: when my late husband spent his final 12 days in ICU, the total bill came to $204,000. The co-pay: $0.

I have said it before and I will say it again: giving and receiving respect, reasonable allocation of time to do a job correctly, contracted and timely payment of services rendered is not union mentality. It should be human mentality.

Automakers don't HAVE to put offers on the table that they don't really want to. No one forces anyone to put certain clauses in those contracts. Job cuts and certain safety measures are bound to be the result of any fuzzy wuzzy sounding contract. Something has to give in order to get, and offers that sound dandy are made in order to gain concessions that will benefit the company over the life of the contract.

You do realize the media doesn't give the entire story, right?

Also note: if an employee opts out of the benefit packages, and some do, they do not receive more monetary compensation.

Now go take your ignorance of topic, envy and hate somewhere else. Until one has lived under the umbrella of the UAW/Big Three, then they have nothing to legitimately bring to the table.


"Bruises fade and bones will mend-but a psyche can be ruined FOREVER" : LisaLouHoo, c. 2008

 

[OntarioVanMan]

OVM, you delivered to the Lake Orion GM plant a week or so ago, I believe they reopened that plant with "sub" (lower then the norm) union scale wage union workers...

It is well known here that I have no use for the unions, but please, as Lisa pointed out, anyone not working for GM would jump at the chance to work for them and get paid those wages...saying you wouldn't, is BS....

Are they worth the wages they get? Well, if the company is going to pay them, then the prevaling wage is want they should get...doesn't matter if I think they are worth it or not...I certainly do think pro ball players are worth the millions they get, but more power to them if they can get it...

As for the welfare system....my take is well known, so, using a "asset" based system is fine...and as the article pointed out, thats how is use to be....but beyond that, they also need to go back to the 26 weeks and emergency extension of no more then 52 weeks....99 weeks!! And barry wants to increase it again....

That was my point...with all the buyouts and early pensions I seem to remember that $56 figure from a few years back...Once they lower the labour threshhold to a point there is no economic gain from moving to Mexico or other overseas places...we stand to win.

 

[LisaLouHoo]

OVM, you delivered to the Lake Orion GM plant a week or so ago, I believe they reopened that plant with "sub" (lower then the norm) union scale wage union workers...

It is well known here that I have no use for the unions, but please, as Lisa pointed out, anyone not working for GM would jump at the chance to work for them and get paid those wages...saying you wouldn't, is BS....

Are they worth the wages they get? Well, if the company is going to pay them, then the prevaling wage is want they should get...doesn't matter if I think they are worth it or not...I certainly do think pro ball players are worth the millions they get, but more power to them if they can get it...

As for the welfare system....my take is well known, so, using a "asset" based system is fine...and as the article pointed out, thats how is use to be....but beyond that, they also need to go back to the 26 weeks and emergency extension of no more then 52 weeks....99 weeks!! And barry wants to increase it again....

A fun fact: my late husband spent the last 22 years of his 33 GM career at Orion. When he hired in at the factory's opening in 1984, there were 5700 employees under that roof. When he retired in 2006, there were 1800. There was a time, in 2000, that there were only 3 employees in the entire factory with less seniority. His job was never guaranteed.

26 weeks? I like that. Seeing as how taxes from my survivor benefits go towards funding such....trying to steer back to topic here...

"Bruises fade and bones will mend-but a psyche can be ruined FOREVER" : LisaLouHoo, c. 2008

 

[Camper]

See what you don't know? My survivor benefits are covered by a separate insurance policy that my late husband paid for out of pocket. If one doesn't choose to insure their pension then their survivors get nothing. Your precious taxes aren't supporting my $12,000 a year survivor pension. That was, is, and will be a separate entity from the bailout.

Smart folks who work there also take a portion of their good pay and invest it in separate major life insurance policies...for death is the only promise life will carry through with. These policies are NOT funded by GM, but a group rate is offered with GM affiliation.

Health insurance for retirees and surviving spouses comes out of a different kitty, too. It didn't used to, but now it does and every retiree and widow pays a monthly contribution now. Which is cool, because the coverage is phenomenal: when my late husband spent his final 12 days in ICU, the total bill came to $204,000. The co-pay: $0.

I have said it before and I will say it again: giving and receiving respect, reasonable allocation of time to do a job correctly, contracted and timely payment of services rendered is not union mentality. It should be human mentality.

Automakers don't HAVE to put offers on the table that they don't really want to. No one forces anyone to put certain clauses in those contracts. Job cuts and certain safety measures are bound to be the result of any fuzzy wuzzy sounding contract. Something has to give in order to get, and offers that sound dandy are made in order to gain concessions that will benefit the company over the life of the contract.

You do realize the media doesn't give the entire story, right?

Now go take your ignorance of topic, envy and hate somewhere else. Until one has lived under the umbrella of the UAW/Big Three, then they have nothing to legitimately bring to the table.


"Bruises fade and bones will mend-but a psyche can be ruined FOREVER" : LisaLouHoo, c. 2008

No Lisa, this isn't about hate or envy. This is about honest, hard working people being fed up with this entitlement mentality that unions, particulalry the UAW have fostered. It in in large part what created the 40 plus year inflationary clycle that is long over due to be corected.

Like I said, these assembly line bots have no business earning any more than a Walmart cashier, let alone the 6 figure compensation package they get, replete with $5k signing bonus.

You're right, the media doesn't tell the whole story, they're largely bias in favor of liberal organizations like the UAW.

The bottom line is you have no say in this argument, given that the survivor benefits, we, tax payers are paying. As callous as it sounds, I would love nothing more than them to be yanked.



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[chefdennis]

making the unemployed "only" get 26 weeks of benefits would have every welfare entitlement bansche screaming bloody murder....lol, i am surprise we have heard from a few of them about this $15,000 car deal...or even thinking about making it a "asset based program....you know they deserve and its really hard out there, and they need to be taken care of because the greedy one cause this and they need child care and transportation and the right to work close their home (can't trave out of the area to where there are jobsl, that would be additional hardship....:rolleyes

26 weeks, and you better have proof that you applied for work out of the state also....if not, bye bye...

 

[Camper]

Those quoted number on average wages, seems they are the same ones from 5 years ago??? How does does making 14$ an hour and reduced benefits now translate into that much?
Just one I know of Ford Truck in Leweyvile took a 10 buck an hour cut in wages....

First off, most of the UAW members are long timers who fall under the higher tier wage, not the $14/hr wage which, incidentally just got bumped up to $16/hr, thanks to the UAW and their arm twisting.

Second, I would argue that $14/hr is still too generous, especially when you factor in the benefits and the signing bonus.

This country has a serious inflationary, trees grow to the sky mentality that is long over due for a serious correction. Inflated wages are where this issue needs to be addressed head on. If it means another recession, I say bring it on. The last one didn't go far enough in correcting the imbalances in our economic system.



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[OntarioVanMan]

No Lisa, this isn't about hate or envy. This is about honest, hard working people being fed up with this entitlement mentality that unions, particulalry the UAW have fostered. It in in large part what created the 40 plus year inflationary clycle that is long over due to be corected.

Like I said, these assembly line bots have no business earning any more than a Walmart cashier, let alone the 6 figure compensation package they get, replete with $5k signing bonus.

You're right, the media doesn't tell the whole story, they're largely bias in favor of liberal organizations like the UAW.

The bottom line is you have no say in this argument, given that the survivor benefits, we, tax payers are paying. As callous as it sounds, I would love nothing more than them to be yanked.



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The UAW isn't completely at fault in this....the companies caved in to those "Greedy" demands....good ole fashion greed on both sides of the table....

and...then there are the CV drivers that think they should be making a 100k a year as well....for holding a steering wheel...

 

[OntarioVanMan]

First off, most of the UAW members are long timers who fall under the higher tier wage, not the $14/hr wage which, incidentally just got bumped up to $16/hr, thanks to the UAW and their arm twisting.

Second, I would argue that $14/hr is still too generous, especially when you factor in the benefits and the signing bonus.

This country has a serious inflationary, trees grow to the sky mentality that is long over due for a serious correction. Inflated wages are where this issue needs to be addressed head on. If it means another recession, I say bring it on. The last one didn't go far enough in correcting the imbalances in our economic system.



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I would argue $1 a mile is way to generous for a CV driver/steering wheel holder...

 

[Camper]

The UAW isn't completely at fault in this....the companies caved in to those "Greedy" demands....good ole fashion greed on both sides of the table....

and...then there are the CV drivers that think they should be making a 100k a year as well....for holding a steering wheel...

I agree, the companies are every bit as much at fault. GM could put a stop to this non-sense by simply giving the UAW the middle finger and relocating to a right to work state or offshore if the labor dept tries getting in the way. Because GM won't, they're allowing this shake down scheme to continue.

I read a good article in which it was predicted that GM would go bankrupt again in 5 years. I'm hoping it happens and that this time, we have an administration that has the balls to throw them a lead weight instead of a life raft.



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[Camper]

I would argue $1 a mile is way to generous for a CV driver/steering wheel holder...

Ditto here


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[OntarioVanMan]

When times were good everyone made money and fed from the money trough...Unions wanted or workers wanted their share....but times are tough they don't want to flip it around and give back.....amazing the companies were real good when they rolled in cash , then when they crumbled now they are called stupid...

 

[OntarioVanMan]

I talked with one Ford worker..the $10 loss per hour after tax adjustments on the gross and lesser SS and E.I payments..the loss was cut to about 6 bucks an hour or $240 bucks a week not $400 a week....

 

[Camper]

When times were good everyone made money and fed from the money trough...Unions wanted or workers wanted their share....but times are tough they don't want to flip it around and give back.....amazing the companies were real good when they rolled in cash , then when they crumbled now they are called stupid...

Yep...Here's the thing though, it didn't take an economic rhodes scholar to see our economic system for what it was in its hey day, a house of cards. I have zero sympathy for those who got drunk on the punch, in their McMansions and Chevy Avalanches.



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[LisaLouHoo]

No Lisa, this isn't about hate or envy. This is about honest, hard working people being fed up with this entitlement mentality that unions, particulalry the UAW have fostered. It in in large part what created the 40 plus year inflationary clycle that is long over due to be corected.

Like I said, these assembly line bots have no business earning any more than a Walmart cashier, let alone the 6 figure compensation package they get, replete with $5k signing bonus.

You're right, the media doesn't tell the whole story, they're largely bias in favor of liberal organizations like the UAW.

The bottom line is you have no say in this argument, given that the survivor benefits, we, tax payers are paying. As callous as it sounds, I would love nothing more than them to be yanked.



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YOUR TAXES DO NOT PAY MY SURVIVOR BENEFIT.

The insurance company through Fidelity Investments guarantees my payment.

You have no say in this debate because you have no ideas of the inner workings of the OPTIONALLY INSURED benefit program.

You could say, "Gee, I didn't know that. I stand corrected. Thanks for clearing that up", but no...

Yank my pension? That's just $12,000 less per year other survivors and I could spend in the economy, not as much depletion of product supply, not as many expediters needed.

Careful what you wish for in order to satisfy your ego and envy. Say what you want, you do sound angry about something you aren't partaking in. You keep trying to tell me I am wrong when I get the benefit check every month, my mom gets hers, and you aren't a part of the cycle.

I know. I live it. You don't.

So then there's a problem with MY former non-union employer's matching 401k program, availability of health, vision, and dental benefits offered at no out of pocket cost to employees, too? UAW wasn't involved in that business. I suppose you will try to figure out a way that you pay for that, also. There are plenty of non-union employers who offer compensatory packages on par with union shops. You gotta know where to look.

Don't you have something to expedite?

"Bruises fade and bones will mend-but a psyche can be ruined FOREVER" : LisaLouHoo, c. 2008

 

[Camper]

YOUR TAXES DO NOT PAY MY SURVIVOR BENEFIT.

The insurance company through Fidelity Investments guarantees my payment.

You have no say in this debate because you have no ideas of the inner workings of the OPTIONALLY INSURED benefit program.

You could say, "Gee, I didn't know that. I stand corrected. Thanks for clearing that up", but no...

Yank my pension? That's just $12,000 less per year other survivors and I could spend in the economy, not as much depletion of product supply, not as many expediters needed.

Careful what you wish for in order to satisfy your ego and envy. Say what you want, you do sound angry about something you aren't partaking in. You keep trying to tell me I am wrong when I get the benefit check every month, my mom gets hers, and you aren't a part of the cycle.

I know. I live it. You don't.

So then there's a problem with MY former non-union employer's matching 401k program, availability of health, vision, and dental benefits offered at no out of pocket cost to employees, too? UAW wasn't involved in that business. I suppose you will try to figure out a way that you pay for that, also. There are plenty of non-union employers who offer compensatory packages on par with union shops. You gotta know where to look.

Don't you have something to expedite?

"Bruises fade and bones will mend-but a psyche can be ruined FOREVER" : LisaLouHoo, c. 2008

Whether they're paid directly by GM or indirectly through Fidelity, the bottom line is you're a beneficiary of GM which is a beneficiary of our tax dollars. Rest assured those premiums paid for what you call life insurance were subsidized in part by a third party.

As far as the effect on the economy yanking these pensions would have: I say bring it on...As I've said before this last recession was no where near long enough.

You might have "lived it" but that doesn't mean you're any more knowledgeable on the topic than those of us who have worked in the real world all our lives. On the contrary, you obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about.



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