We Bail Em' Out....

[greg334]

Oiler,
Dude the problem is the union protects the people who should get fired. The workers do not fight the union because of some 'brotherhood' BS which doesn't seem to extend outside to other unions (want to talk about strike solidarity?).

Once the general rank and file demand that there is a cleaning of the house at these companies, then it can be viewed that not all the union workers are lazy and stupid beside being over paid and wanting to get drunk all the time. The public rightfully lumps all autoworkers into the same mold and many, like those outside of the tri-state area, don't really care about them but looks at these issues when they pop up as "screw them" type of attitude.

 

[highway star]

I will also add this, wouldn't there be company rules in place about drinking/drugs during the work day or will they get a pass on this issue because they have to punch out for their lunch, therefore deeming this as "their own time"?

There will most certainly be wording about being under the influence that would close that loop hole.

 

[Oilerman1957]

There is wording about being under the influence, I doubt they will just be slapped on the hand for this as the rules have changed, probably have to go to rehab, then they will be subject to random drug tests to keep there jobs. The rules of 20 yrs ago no longer apply. As far as what Greg posts, If you havent worked in these factories for 20 yrs then you wont understand, its like someone driving a truck for 5 yrs and telling someone that has drove for 20 yrs what its like, they dont. As with most things in life, if you havent expericened it you really dont understand it. Talking to factory worker is just like talking to a trucker in a truck stop, lots of fish stories.

 

[Oilerman1957]

I read back through the comments in the thread and I don't see where anyone did that. I spent my share of time in factories so I agree with you that most are hard working and don't do drugs. However, I worked in non-union shops and there was a process that one had to go through if they failed the drug test, with termination waiting for repeat offenders. Had management of these companies been presented with the above video, the people would have been fired on the spot.

I will also add this, wouldn't there be company rules in place about drinking/drugs during the work day or will they get a pass on this issue because they have to punch out for their lunch, therefore deeming this as "their own time"?

We haven't addressed the safety issue in all of this. Hypothetically, if one of these workers is a little "off" his reaction time with machinery because of his lunchtime antics and someone gets hurt.....who pays the tab, the union that saved his job or the company?

Some good questions there, If you get injured on the job and they suspect drug or drinking involved the employee is subject to a drug test. What some people fail to realize is not everyone is cut out to work in a factory so therefore they have some things like rehab for employees as the training in a factory is to expensive to continue to turn employees over. To many people think of a factory worker as just a body and they have no skills, which is wrong, its like saying a truck driver is a steering wheel holder, just not true.

 

[dieseldiva]

There is wording about being under the influence, I doubt they will just be slapped on the hand for this as the rules have changed, probably have to go to rehab, then they will be subject to random drug tests to keep there jobs. The rules of 20 yrs ago no longer apply. As far as what Greg posts, If you havent worked in these factories for 20 yrs then you wont understand, its like someone driving a truck for 5 yrs and telling someone that has drove for 20 yrs what its like, they dont. As with most things in life, if you havent expericened it you really dont understand it. Talking to factory worker is just like talking to a trucker in a truck stop, lots of fish stories.

Come on now, Oilerman.....I don't have to work in one of these factories to have any insight into what goes on. I do have friends and relatives, as I'm sure Greg does as well, that I trust to tell me the truth.

As for the unions, I have three children that belong to unions, one a teacher, one a journeyman carpenter and the other a journeyman electrician so I'm not entirely ignorant of how these things work.

 

[Oilerman1957]

Oiler,
Dude the problem is the union protects the people who should get fired. The workers do not fight the union because of some 'brotherhood' BS which doesn't seem to extend outside to other unions (want to talk about strike solidarity?).

Once the general rank and file demand that there is a cleaning of the house at these companies, then it can be viewed that not all the union workers are lazy and stupid beside being over paid and wanting to get drunk all the time. The public rightfully lumps all autoworkers into the same mold and many, like those outside of the tri-state area, don't really care about them but looks at these issues when they pop up as "screw them" type of attitude.

To be honest, most could care less how you view them, its a job, a good paying job, view them as you wish, but your view is wrong. As far as the union goes, thats there job, but dont think you dont hear about it from the union, you get an ear full, trust me, i know. Again, till you walk in another man's shoes, you dont know what your talking about, put 20 yrs in a factory then come talk to me

 

[chefdennis]

Poor UAW workers, misunderstood and mistreated.....

 

[Oilerman1957]

Poor UAW workers, misunderstood and mistreated.....

I didnt say they were mistreated but i did say they probably really dont care what others think

 

[Oilerman1957]

Come on now, Oilerman.....I don't have to work in one of these factories to have any insight into what goes on. I do have friends and relatives, as I'm sure Greg does as well, that I trust to tell me the truth.

As for the unions, I have three children that belong to unions, one a teacher, one a journeyman carpenter and the other a journeyman electrician so I'm not entirely ignorant of how these things work.

I had friends that were truckers to, but i really didnt give them the credit they deserved untill i had to be on the road and as i said, walk a mile in their shoes, I now have more respect for what they go through.

 

[layoutshooter]

I had friends that were truckers to, but i really didnt give them the credit they deserved untill i had to be on the road and as i said, walk a mile in their shoes, I now have more respect for what they go through.

EVERY job that I have worked at, including the auto plant in Wayne, MI, had rules against drinking or doing drugs in the plant OR on company property. I don't like the rehab part. Fire them. I almost got run over by a payloader operator when I worked at Great Lakes Steel. He was smoking pot on the job and was high as a kite. All he got was a 1 week suspension and was back to workin and smokin the next week. There is just NO valid excuse for this kind of activities.

 

[Oilerman1957]

EVERY job that I have worked at, including the auto plant in Wayne, MI, had rules against drinking or doing drugs in the plant OR on company property. I don't like the rehab part. Fire them. I almost got run over by a payloader operator when I worked at Great Lakes Steel. He was smoking pot on the job and was high as a kite. All he got was a 1 week suspension and was back to workin and smokin the next week. There is just NO valid excuse for this kind of activities.

Bet that was awhile ago, that no longer flies layout

 

[greg334]

Oiler,
I have heard that for more than 35 years and can't say that it is true, experience means little when the fact is that the union is an antiquated bunch of greedy selfish people who screw over their workers.

The workers for the most part would be a lot better off, and so would be the tax payers for that matter but back to the point, the experience I have is meaningless when the appearance matters to the public.

If there are workers who break the rules, fire them. If they are doing drugs in the plant, fire them. They should not be afforded rehab and then return to their jobs, they should be terminated. All of this looks like a game to many in the public and they don't really give a crap about any of it only know that the worker is more of the cost of their car than anything else.

Let's see, here is a true story. I asked a former UAW president if I should join the union and have my employees join too because I was dealing with Ford a lot. He went on to give me the great big line about how the UAW is great, how the unions have helped the helpless worker but never answered the question. I asked again and I got this - "son, the only reason you would join would be to **** the company ... outside of that ... the other reason would be to ask the other guy show me yours [union card] first".

 

[layoutshooter]

Bet that was awhile ago, that no longer flies layout

I don't understand, what does not fly?

 

[Oilerman1957]

I don't understand, what does not fly?

employees getting high and getting caught and only getting a week off and nothing else, that doesnt happen anymore that i know of. Thats what i meant doesnt fly

 

[Oilerman1957]

Oiler,
I have heard that for more than 35 years and can't say that it is true, experience means little when the fact is that the union is an antiquated bunch of greedy selfish people who screw over their workers.

The workers for the most part would be a lot better off, and so would be the tax payers for that matter but back to the point, the experience I have is meaningless when the appearance matters to the public.

If there are workers who break the rules, fire them. If they are doing drugs in the plant, fire them. They should not be afforded rehab and then return to their jobs, they should be terminated. All of this looks like a game to many in the public and they don't really give a crap about any of it only know that the worker is more of the cost of their car than anything else.

Let's see, here is a true story. I asked a former UAW president if I should join the union and have my employees join too because I was dealing with Ford a lot. He went on to give me the great big line about how the UAW is great, how the unions have helped the helpless worker but never answered the question. I asked again and I got this - "son, the only reason you would join would be to **** the company ... outside of that ... the other reason would be to ask the other guy show me yours [union card] first".

Really, that strict eh? If a trucker breaks the law, fire him, regardless if its speeding, running a stop sign, bypassing a weigh statio, fire them. they broke the rules, they broke the law, fire them. And the guy you spoke to speaks for all? get real, he was a jerk. In 31 yrs i never showed my union card.

 

[layoutshooter]

employees getting high and getting caught and only getting a week off and nothing else, that doesnt happen anymore that i know of. Thats what i meant doesnt fly

That could be, I have no idea.

I don't go along with the rehab part ONCE CAUGHT. IF they went in and ASKED for help, maybe, although it is NOT the responsibility of the company. It is the responsibility of the individual. ONCE CAUGHT, GONE, TOAST, FRIED etc. They are all adults, they know the rules, they are more than aware of their responsibilities as adults. NO second chances for drinking, doing drugs, stealing etc. It hurts everyone else who works there. It hurts the business. There is no valid excuse.

 

[cheri1122]

I bet if cameramen could get into the upscale places that management spend their lunch 'hour' [much longer, but then, they aren't required to punch a card to prove they took only the allotted 30 minutes], the video would be pretty outrageous, too.

Unions have in some cases, fallen to the same corruption as they started out to counteract, but they exist for a reason - without them, we wouldn't have many of the benefits [paid overtime, 40 hr work week] that we [ok, not us, lol] have today.

As bad as unions can be, I think management can be much worse, and where's the outrage on that? They can be 'let go' for incompetence, given a generous severance, and find another cushy overpaid position without difficulty - can a worker do the same?

Diva: the point I was making is that we get paid for X number of miles, and if we can do it in less, we still get paid for undriven miles. The union workers who make their quota [set by management] are no different, and why should they be?

 

[Oilerman1957]

That could be, I have no idea.

I don't go along with the rehab part ONCE CAUGHT. IF they went in and ASKED for help, maybe, although it is NOT the responsibility of the company. It is the responsibility of the individual. ONCE CAUGHT, GONE, TOAST, FRIED etc. They are all adults, they know the rules, they are more than aware of their responsibilities as adults. NO second chances for drinking, doing drugs, stealing etc. It hurts everyone else who works there. It hurts the business. There is no valid excuse.

Guess it depends on if you consider drinking n drugging a disease or not, some do. I have seen positive results for some on rehab, wouldnt fire someone for having cancer would you? but i know, thats up for debate. everything doesnt have to be black n white you know.

 

[layoutshooter]

There are bad people in management just as in the unions. Management seldom has "set" lunch hours. I never did. Some days I took 2 hours, many days I got none. I had to work 50-60 hours per week, straight salary. No overtime, no 40 hour week and FAR more responsibility than I EVER had as an hourly employee.

What one person, management or hourly does wrong does NOT reflect on the rest of their respective groups. The individual who screws up should be fired. I don't care who they are. There is NO valid excuse for drinking or doing drugs at work.

 

[layoutshooter]

Unions are a good thing...they scare the bejeevies out some employers..and they pretty much follow proper manners...

Joe...I'd fire you...you are slow and can't put out the required production as I require you to do...so I'll steal the best years of your life maybe 15 or so and toss your butt out the door..your bad knees are a compensation risk and your BP would put me at risk of insurance claims....and that is fair eh?

What does any of that have to do with drinking on the job? I did not say anything anti-union. I do think that they are out of control these days. I don't believe that they even look out for the rank and file all that well any more. IF they were they would insure that those bums got fired. Drunks and dopers on the job are a THREAT to the lives of everyone else at that plant. Protecting them is just WRONG.