USA.. where the S is for Sharia

[RLENT]

Well, you see what you see and call it one thing and I see it and call it something else. Your taps are my slaps/smacks whatever.

Yup - difference in viewpoint.

Comparing it to Rodney King is ridiculous.

Yes it is - and that was exactly my point. One is indeed a rather nasty assault/battery of a single unarmed man by multiple individuals ..... and the other, in comparision, is .... insignificant ...

As I said, it was mild as these things go.

Yes, you did - I have to give you that - however you were also apparently calling for a level of punishment, which in my estimation, was completely out of line with the magnitude of any crime that might have been committed.

And not only that, you were apparently calling for it wholesale - against all of the individuals in the so-called "mob" .... rather than just against the two or three individuals who were really out of line, and actually did something that would merit punishment.

Such a lack of differentiation says ..... well, I'll leave it to your imagination .....

I also said they should have brought in a uniformed officer. S/he should have instructed them to turn the camera off, remove the battery, pocket the battery, point the camera at the ground and leave, all without any violence or assault.

Yes, you did - and I agreed with you. As a point of fact tho', I think it was I who actually stated that premise first.

If they failed to comply they could have been escorted off in the arms of an on duty uniformed police officer rather than herded off by a mob surrounding them menacingly.

While I am no fan of mob activity, I cannot absolve Qureshi et al of their culpability in what ultimately occurred.

Indeed, I take the position, that Qureshi & company, intentionally and knowingly set out on a path that was explicitly designed from the git go to cause a disturbance .... with the ultimate goal of portraying themselves as the victims, and others as the villians ...... with the express purpose or goal of manipulating the attitudes and reactions of whoever would view the video .... something they have no doubt succeeded at, beyond their wildest dreams I'm sure.

I never said it was a Muslim mob or Arab mob or Hyphen-American mob (something that doesn't exist). I said it was a mob. Period. No qualifiers.

That's true - that is what you said (and didn't say) ...... of course, I certainly never said that you stated something that you didn't say.

I was only making a point, to make it perfectly clear that a conclusion that some might have drawn from viewing the footage, might not be necessarily accurate.

BTW, if you think that that (conclusions drawn wholesale, based on little or no evidence whatsoever) can't happen, then I would invite you to go to any one of the hundreds of websites where this inflamatory and misleading video has been posted or linked, and view some of the utterly imbecilic commentary about what appears to be taking place in the video.

I said they engaged in mob actions and mild mob violence.

Yeah, you did - you also said:

"If you make it through the entire thing without being sick or wanting to break someone you've done well."

and

"I hope they make such a big stink about it that no permit will be issued to allow that freaking event/fair/whatever next year."

and

"It's nearing the point where certain undesirables are going to be driven out of this country one way or another and I'm less and less inclined to think it's a bad thing."

My first question to you is who exactly is it that you want to "break" ..... the guys in the booth distributing literature ? ..... the security guards ? .... or just "all of them" ?

My second question to you is what possible logic and reason are you using to advocate that peoples (tens of thousands no doubt - actually over 250,000 apparently) right to free assembly should be suppressed .... by no permit being issued (to allow that "freaking event/fair/whatever" next year ....) .... based solely on the actions of a couple of rather stupid and overzealous security guards ?

My third question to you is whether you would give us a little bit of explanation or expansion on who it is exactly, that you see as "certain undesirables"

My fourth and final question to you is, since you apparently think that driving certain folks, you deem as undesirable, out, is no longer a bad thing (and therefore apparently a good thing), will you yourself be actively participating in doing so ?

You seem determined to paint me as Archie Bunker

Well, I think you give me far, far too much credit Leo ...... perhaps out of your own mouth, you convict yourself tho' ....

But it is funny that you should bring that up .... as those were exactly the words used by another member here once, to describe you to me.

so I guess that would make you Meathead

..... not even close ...... besides, I'm not Polish anyways .....

 

[RLENT]

This Arab Festival is a very public event and has been going on for fourteen years. (link deleted)

Yup - but hey if you want to link a site that describes Detroit Arab Fest, why not use this one instead:

American Arab Chamber of Commerce

You know - the one that shows the CIA, FBI, and the USIC (United States Intelligence Community) ..... as sponsors, or members, apparently .....

You might also note the order of the words (American, then Arab) in the name - as the order may well be significant, in terms of how people view themselves.

The particular display that was approached by the Acts 17 group seemed to invite questions, declaring that they had answers.

Yes it did - however anyone truly interested in obtaining answers on any given subject - and most particularly in the area of religion I would think, given the fact that it can be a fairly sensitive matter - would probably be respectful enough to actually just come and politely inquire, asking real questions - as opposed to attempting to engage in ambush journalism ....

Besides, if the true purpose was only to obtain answers, then why is a video camera necessary to that end ?

To shed some light on what the real purpose was just view Qureshi making the following editorial statement (at 00:24 in the "Unedited Footage Video .... which by the way was edited ) - and please pay very close attention to his demeanor during this:

"Alright, so what we see here is that we are told Islam: got questions, we got answers ..... but they do not allow it to be recorded .... is this deception ? ... I give you the answer ....."

Ok, so first thing he does is to set up the premise that because someone is unwilling to allow him to record them that they therefore must be deceptive ...... yup - an unwillingness to be videotaped certainly is bona fide proof of deception .... in fact I have heard that there was a recent Supreme Court ruling just to that effect ......

And then Qureshi proceeds to inform the viewer that he, Qureshi, will provide the answers .....

Gee .... I thought his whole purpose for being there was to ask questions and obtain answers ..... but he has now just informed us that he already has the answers .... I know that may come as a shock to many of the innocent victims .... errr, I mean viewers ... out there .... me personally, I wasn't real surprised ......

One would truly have to be some kind of mental midget not to be able to see thru the fraudulence of what he maintains his purpose is, and what it is he is actually doing ...... the actions don't lie .... no matter to what degree he tries to maintain that what he is doing is something other than what it actually is.

 

[RLENT]

Nabeel Qureshi is a former Amadhi (who has apparently converted to Christianity) .... Amadhism is a sect, or denomination of Islam (or so they claim), which is viewed and regarded by all other Muslims as heretical, or apostate. Given that context, it's real hard not to imagine that he might have an axe to grind ......

I just don't see the insidious behaviour on the part of the Apologetics that is claimed in some of these posts.

And that, in and of itself, says alot .... but really no surprise I guess ....

Seeing requires a willingness to look at what is actually there ...

People often see only what they want to see, and will excuse and justify all manner of things ..... sometimes due being manipulated by the medium ..... and other times due to sympathies to one or the other parties ..... among other many other reasons ....

Granted, it might be seen as somewhat intrusive;

Ya think ?

however, the people that sponsored this booth should have been prepared for anyone from the news media or other organizations that might have shown up with cameras or video equipment wanting to do interviews or "ask questions."

That may well be the case, however it does not excuse the conduct (and definitely not the motivations) of Qureshi or Wood ....

I would assume that the primary purpose of the individuals in the booth at the festival was to pass out literature to those who are genuinely interested and had sincere questions, stating that it is their understanding and belief that their religion does not promote violence .... not to be holding press conferences .... or doing media interviews.

So rather than just taking that at face value, some folks would prefer to interrogate them about it ..... indeed, not only question them, but show them why they are wrong about their own religion .... (no doubt straight out of "How to Win Friends and Influence People" .....)

Conversely, had Qureshi been interesting in doing such a thing (media interview), one assumes that he could have contacted whatever organization it was and arranged to do so at an appropriate time and place ....

My question to you is, inspite of whatever "rights" you feel some might have, do you honestly think that anything that was done by Qureshi and Woods did anything to promote peaceful co-existence among those of different different races and religions ?

Or did it have exactly the opposite effect ?

Instead of hustling the Apologetics off the premesis with security guards in t-shirts, they should have escorted them to an appropriate location to discuss their concerns with a press agent or spokesperson prepared to deal with them.

Perhaps .... in that case one could certainly accuse them of not being press or PR-savy ..... but that's about it .....

You might also have observed (well, probably not .....) that Qureshi did not walk up to the booth and ask for spokesperson or someone to speak as a designated representative ..... he just selected a random target .....

The Muslims could have easily used the situation to portray themselves on video as peace loving citizens against terrorism and their radical bretheren, just as their pamphlet advertised.

Easily ?

Such a viewpoint as the one quoted above is naive ..... to the point of absurdity .....

Trust me on this one - there is absolutely no way that Acts17 was ever going to allow that to happen.

Had Acts17 been unable to create a situation that was to their advantage in what they wanted to portray, there would have been no video - simple as that. It's not what they are about.

When one is controlling the questions, the taping, voice-over/narration, and, most importantly, the editing of the footage, one is controlling the message - I know - I've been there, done it, and I got the t-shirt.

And if you don't believe that, I invite you to seek out and question anyone who has been similarly ambushed and ask them if their position was accurately and fairly portrayed ..... get back to me on your findings ....

Instead, they appear to be surly, defensive and unwilling to engage these Christians in any sort of meaningful dialogue.

I don't see it quite that way - I see them as reacting (not inappropriately) to someone who has come there, not to sincerely ask questions, but to oppose and attack them.

Possibly their attitudes and manners are because they understand full well from the very outset that Acts17 are not honest brokers, and there is no way they will get a fair hearing. The immediate and incontrovertible evidence of that is at the beginning of the "Unedited" footage tape that I pointed out earlier.

We don't know what kind of activities by Acts 17 might have occurred previously off camera;

..... oh to have been a fly on the wall ......

also, we don't know from these YouTube videos or any of the posts what the Muslim agenda was during this public event.

True .... but really irrelevant.

We don't see the Sharia philosophy mentioned, but that doesn't mean it wasn't being promoted in some form.

That's also true - however, that in no way minimizes the intellectual dishonesty of putting out a video that claims to be about "Sharia in the US" .... when there is nothing whatsoever in the video about that subject at all.

 

[Dreammaker]

Reminds me of this video: YouTube - Leg Trying To Steal Bone.

 

[RLENT]

Reminds me of this video: YouTube - Leg Trying To Steal Bone.

Now that's funny ......

 

[Dreammaker]

Now that's funny ......

I thought you'd like that. Have a great evening. Time for bed.

 

[RLENT]

Indeed I did .... thanks for posting it ... and pleasant dreams

Excerpted from vvdailypress.com (article by Doug Irving, The Orange County Register):

"ANAHEIM • Members of an Anaheim-based Christian group were not allowed to roam the sidewalks of an Arab festival last weekend to hand out pamphlets, a federal judge ruled.

The group, Arabic Christian Perspectives .... <snip> .... had some 90 members (rlent editorial note: IOW, a virtual army of "holy warriors") in Dearborn for the 14th annual Arab International Festival.

Dearborn police told the group's pastor, George Saieg, that his followers would have to stay in one place this year, according to the lawsuit.

Dearborn spokeswoman Mary Laundroche said this week that she could not confirm the group's account of its dealings with city police. But she said the city does not run the festival, and any rules it puts in place would be for public safety.

"What they're asking for is different than what other groups are asking for at the festival," she said.

Those other groups bought tables "right in the middle of the festival... in prime locations," said Fay Beydoun, the executive director of the American Arab Chamber Commerce, which organized the festival. The tables cost $150 for the duration of the weekend festival.

"I've got three Christian groups already" that have bought tables, Beydoun said. As for Arabic Christian Perspectives: "They never contacted us," Beydoun said"

Well huh ...... imagine that .... guess it just wasn't quite as Mr. Qureshi was attempting to portray it ....

It appears that Christian groups were just as welcome as any other - provided they were willing to pay the fee and play under the same rules as anyone else.

Full story here:

Judges Ruling

.... maybe we should take up a collection for a table for 'em, for next year .....

 

[RLENT]

This just in (from onenewsnow.com, an AP story):

"Festival organizer Fay Beydoun said the evangelical group was being offered a good spot in an area with a number of other religious, nonprofit and political groups. "You have to pass right in front of it to get anywhere," said Beydoun, executive director of the American Arab Chamber of Commerce.

The group sued Dearborn after police told the Rev. George Saieg members would need to restrict literature distribution to a designated table-and-booth section of the festival site.

The city said safely accommodating the 150,000 daily festival-goers requires limits on where people can leaflet. It said other Christian and Muslim groups already have tables and booths for distributing material at the festival.

City officials say anyone is free to have conversations — but not leaflet — on sidewalks within the festival's barricades.

"It appears to be a legitimate governmental interest for crowd control and safety," Edmunds said in denying the request. "The festival area is more akin to a fair than a normal city street."

An official of the Council of American-Islamic Relations said Arabic Christian Perspective was asking for special treatment. "They should abide by the rules and purchase a booth like the other religious groups," said Dawud Walid, executive director of the group's Michigan chapter. "Christians can talk about Christianity and Muslims can promote Islam. This is the right we have as Americans."

Full article here:

Christian Group Barred

Never, ever did I think I would see a day come that someone from CAIR, of all places, would seem to have a better understanding than some folks who really ought to know better, of what is inherently fair, and just.

 

[layoutshooter]

There are MANY fine American-Arabs in the Detroit area. I know a few. Most that I know have done WAY MORE than most native born Americans have to defend this Nation AGAINST radical Islam. THEY understand the realities, most here do NOT.

There are, however, radical Islamic groups operating in the US doing all they can to disrupt our fight against them and destroy this Nation. This is nothing new. The Germans, Japanese, Russians etc etc etc did do and are still operating in this country. The "Shadow War" never ends. The big difference now is our media is on the side of the enemy. I am appaulled by that lack of honest reporting and out right LIES that are put out there as "NEWS". Pravda editors take great pride in all the training they have done in our colleges over the years.

 

[LDB]

The closest I get to Archie Bunker is being quite conservative. I have no problem with any particular group as a whole although I guess maybe if we are talking about criminals or Congress that could be a stretch. Then again I'm not sure if that's even two groups or one and the same. Oh well. This seems to be the two tray run where one card is missing somewhere in the trays and an endless loop is created. Back to the keypunch machine (or maybe other topics).

 

[dieseldiva]

THIS just came over my twitter page.....interesting.

 

[layoutshooter]

It is interesting.

 

[Dreammaker]

From Pamelageller.com: Looks like they are having a few problems in Dearborn getting Muslims and Christians to live together.

Lawsuit Filed Against Dearborn Schools and Muslim Principal Over Firing of Legendary Christian Wrestling Coach

Monday, July 27, 2009

Religious - Muslim Star & Crescent 2ANN ARBOR, MI – The Thomas More Law Center, a national public interest law firm based in Ann Arbor, Michigan announced today that a federal lawsuit has been filed against a Dearborn, Michigan high school, Fordson High School, and its Muslim principal, Imad Fadlallah, over the firing of Gerald Marszalek because of Marszalek’s connection to a Christian volunteer coach.

Marszalek, who had coached wrestling for 35 years, had achieved a legendary status in the wrestling community. Earning more that 450 wins, and sending numerous wrestlers to various collegiate programs, he was elected to the Michigan High School Athletic Association Hall of Fame, named “Sportsman of the Year” by the All-American Athletic Association. Marszalek’s contract was not renewed because of his association with a Christian volunteer coach, Trey Han****, who the principal accused of converting a Muslim student to Christianity during a summer camp not connected with the school or Coach Marszalek.

The lawsuit was filed by the Thomas More Law Center, and a private litigation firm of Cummings, McClorey, Davis & Acho, P.L.C. located in Livonia, Michigan. [General - PDF LinksRead Complaint here.]

Richard Thompson, President and Chief Counsel of the Thomas More Law Center commented, “We are getting a glimpse of what happens when Muslims who refuse to accept American values and principles gain political power in an American community. Failure to renew coach Marszalek’s contract had nothing to do with wrestling and everything to do with religion.”

The city of Dearborn is one of the most densely populated Muslim communities in the United States. An estimated 30,000 of its 98,000 residents are Muslims. It is estimated that 80% of the student population of Fordson High School is Arabic and most of those are Muslims. According to the lawsuit, Fadlallah has publically stated that he sees Fordson High School as a Muslim school.

Trouble started between Fadlallah and Marszalek when one of Coach Marszalek’s assistant coaches, Trey Han****, held a summer wrestling camp in which a Muslim camper converted to Christianity. Principal Fadlallah was so upset by the conversion that he punched the student and informed him he had disgraced his family. Fadlallah also ordered Coach Marszalek to ban the assistant coach from the high school and all wrestling events. However, since the assistant had a son that wrestled on the team, this was an impossible order to enforce. After the wrestling season was over, Coach Marszalek was not allowed to reapply to his coaching position—in clear violation of Union rules. Unfortunately for Coach Marszalek, his teacher’s Union did not help him in his hour of need.

The lawsuit claims violations of both the U.S. and Michigan constitutions and statutes including Michigan’s Elliot-Larsen Civil Rights. Coach Marszalek is seeking his back pay, injunctive and declaratory relief, damages, and to be reinstated as coach of the wrestling team.

 

[layoutshooter]

What a real shame. There are SO many Muslims in the Dearborn area that do NOT feel this way. We must ALWAYS be on watch to insure that these radicals DO NOT take over. It is a VERY real threat.

 

[LDB]

Principal Fadlallah was so upset by the conversion that he punched the student and informed him he had disgraced his family.

Interesting. A principal assaults a student but the principal isn't fired. I'll go ahead and suggest the principal be fired and blacklisted from holding any position working with students. I'll also suggest he be arrested and tried for assault. Now I'll be blasted for suggesting a person committing assault be held accountable. I'll also be blasted for suggesting he be fired. Oh well, that's life in the right lane.

 

[witness23]

Interesting. A principal assaults a student but the principal isn't fired. I'll go ahead and suggest the principal be fired and blacklisted from holding any position working with students. I'll also suggest he be arrested and tried for assault. Now I'll be blasted for suggesting a person committing assault be held accountable. I'll also be blasted for suggesting he be fired. Oh well, that's life in the right lane.

Oh Leo, you poor, poor man you. Shall we have a pity party for you? Would that make you feel better? Come here little Leo let Mommy kiss your little bruised ego for you.

It's funny, it seems whenever Leo has conceded he usually comes in and makes a joke or deflects such as he has above. I actually feel sorry for you Leo, I couldn't imagine going thru life with such hate.

 

[LDB]

No need to feel sorry for me. I don't have hate or pity or a bruised ego. I stated that if a principal strikes a student the principal be fired and prosecuted. Based on what I've seen some will think I'm way too mean and way too harsh on the poor misunderstood discrimination victim principal. Oh, and it has nothing to do with the principal being Muslim, male, female, bald, green or purple.

 

[Pilgrim]

Once again "hate" is defined as a viewpoint not in agreement with a liberal position. Forget about the possibility that this viewpoint might show compassion for the student and the teacher that got fired. I'll bet the liberal's viewpoint would be significantly different if it had been his son that had been punched, or if it had been his brother that had been fired.

I can't help but wonder how the story would have read if this had happened in a public school with a Christian principal. Principal punches student over conversion from Christianity to Islam: teacher fired over aiding and abetting said conversion. But wait a minute - I thought we were supposed to keep God out of the public schools. I guess this separation of church and state doesn't apply to Allah and the schools where the Arab population is in the majority, or has a significant minority for that matter. After all, our tax dollars are supporting their madrases so why not convert the public schools as well?

 

[dieseldiva]

Principal punches student over conversion from Christianity to Islam: teacher fired over aiding and abetting said conversion.

Gentlemen, allow me to twist this thing one more time and see what the reaction would be.....IF the sentence read...

WHITE principal punches BLACK student over conversion from Christianity to Islam: WHITE teacher fired over aiding and abetting said conversion.

 

[witness23]

No need to feel sorry for me. I don't have hate or pity or a bruised ego. I stated that if a principal strikes a student the principal be fired and prosecuted. Based on what I've seen some will think I'm way too mean and way too harsh on the poor misunderstood discrimination victim principal. Oh, and it has nothing to do with the principal being Muslim, male, female, bald, green or purple.

Yes Leo some of us would think you are such a "baaad man" for what you said. I'm being sarcastic by the way. The story about the principal and the original thread that you started about the video are not even comparable and you know it. Don't play the Martyr Leo it's not very becoming of you.

[/QUOTE]Oh, and it has nothing to do with the principal being Muslim, male, female, bald, green or purple.[/QUOTE]

You are absolutely correct Leo it has nothing to do with those things, it has everything to do with a Principal punching a student, which anyone in their right mind knows that type of behavior for a Principal is unacceptable. It's actually quite insulting that you would think that I or anyone else for that matter would take this story any other way. But that is your way of deflecting.