USA.. where the S is for Sharia

[Turtle]

Ark, it's not all encompassing, but the last couple of generations have largely been raised "soft". It's the Feminization of the American Male. Little boys are scolded for being little boys. 3rd graders are suspended from school for kissing a girl or pulling a pony tail. Dodgeball is forbidden in most schools because someone might learn that life isn't fair or how to deal with adversity. Musical Chairs are played with the same number of chairs as people, to prevent someone from losing. Routine spats and arguments on the playground are not allowed to be worked out by the kids, because that might teach things like conflict resolution, and by the parents or teachers resolving the conflicts it better teaches that someone will always come to the rescue. Sporting contests are played without keeping score, and everyone plays whether you suck or not, so as to not irrevocably damage the self esteem of Little Johnny.

Then they join the military and Real Life slams them in the face and they can't understand why they are getting yelled at instead of having a nice quiet time out, much less why they actually have to do what they are told to do. Having served or not is irrelevant to the fact that we have just a snotload of very soft babies in adult bodies who are wholly unprepared for life, much less the military.

 

[chefdennis]

turtle again TY for the #'s, but again i was talking about a city in a state in the United States...not paris france or anywhere else...lol common sense tells most people that there are larger mulum population then 40,000 people in other place in the world....oh and as far as making anything up, the way i stated it, is used all the time all over the web...you know on the blogs....lol...the same blogsphere that barry uses to get his stuff out ....lol

 

[layoutshooter]

Greg is a good guy and backs our troops. He often speaks in generalities. I know he was NOT speaking about individuals. I am a bit thin skinned on many things that get posted in here but Greg is NOT a problem.

You are correct on Vets care, 100% I have to pay co-pays for EVERYTHING and they keep going up. It is now $70 per doctor visit, more if you have x-rays etc. It is $20 per 90 days on perscriptions, ALL GENERICS. I have switched to getting one of them at Wally World where it is ONLY $10 per month. My dad, who is a WWII combat vet and 87 has to pay the same co-pays. AND BARRY WANTS ILLEGAL ALIENS TO GET HEALTH CARE FOR FREE!!! NOT our Vets though. &**^^%$%^%^ I have less use for that sorry so and so as EVERY minute passes.

 

[arkjarhead]

Having served or not is irrelevant to the fact that we have just a snotload of very soft babies in adult bodies who are wholly unprepared for life, much less the military.

Having served is VERY relevant. How can someone call another person soft because of their reaction to combat when they themselves don't have the balls to join? I take those comments personally because the people being talked about are my friends and myself. Vietnam Vets have PTSD as well. I've seen alot of them at the VA. I have PTSD, and if you have a problem with it then kiss my arse.

 

[greg334]

Ark, you misunderstand.

My comments are not about you or a lot of people who serve us with valor but the people who enter the service with a lack of ability to handle the least amount of stress without falling apart.

This is reflected in the higher rejection rate and the insubordination of recruits in the military training today compared to the past and it happens more often than not in the Army. The Marines have a different system altogether that don't seem to be socially engineered like the army.

Since my generation, the end of the Baby Boomer's, our country has seen no problems or life issues like previous generations that has been there to prepare the generation for the future.

Every generation has had some sort of issues or major life problems to contend with, the WW1 vets lived through a deep depression in 1907, the WW2 vets grew up in the Great Depression, Korean vets had to grow up with both the Great Depression and WW2, Vietnam vets grew up with Korea the threat of war with nukes and reds but since the end of Vietnam, there has been nothing to prepare our generations now for anything that comes down reality.

Since this "melt down" of our economy, the suicide rates have expected to risen, there was a big concern in California about it that they spent tons of money hiring "volunteers" to man the phones in preparation for an influx of people who want to end it all because they can't get cable (I am not kidding about that, it was posted on the California Mental Health website as one of the causes).

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Greg ..absolutely...back in the early 80's recession I drove cab and they were real scary times...regular people going off the deep end...first time robbers, dads doing desperate things to feed their families....robbery was way up by amateurs. When rat feels backed into a corner....look out...

 

[Scuba]

Too bad they didn’t have a suicide bombing class with a show and tell display.
I can see the teacher telling the class, gather around people I’m only going to show you this once

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Too bad they didn’t have a suicide bombing class with a show and tell display.
I can see the teacher telling the class, gather around people I’m only going to show you this once

Now that is funny....

 

[Turtle]

Having served or not is irrelevant to the fact that we have just a snotload of very soft babies in adult bodies who are wholly unprepared for life, much less the military.

Having served is VERY relevant.

No, it's not. My statement stands on its own, especially in the context of the rest of that paragraph. We have a lot of people who have been raised to not be prepared for life, much less the military. These people are soft, whether they served or not, and they can be called soft by people whether or not they themselves have served. Soft if soft. It's a product of "time out" and of instant gratification.

How can someone call another person soft because of their reaction to combat when they themselves don't have the balls to join?

I don't know. Has anyone here done that?

 

[layoutshooter]

Turtle, what you don't seem to understand sometimes is that MUCH of the world lives in "smaller circles" and they tend to take things more personal or literal than you often do. You often seem to be trying to analize things from a strictly academic view point. That is very important to do. It tends to be more dispationate and objective. That kind of thinking often finds answers that others cannot see.

What those who think like that often forget is that for many it sounds like you just frankly have no idea what in the world you are talkiing about. Having been there IS relevent to ANY arguement. It is at least ONE side to the story.

I tend to think along simpler lines, more like Ark does. Things to me are more black and white, simple and to the point. While I do not for one minute believe that you are not sensitive to the REAL problems that many Vets have your writtings often seem that way to others.

When you write you should attempt to keep this in mind. Those of us who have delt with the stresses of combat or the stresses of the "dark world" often feel "left out" by others. We have been ridiculed by presidents, senators, congressmen and college kids. MOST of the above mentioned fall into the catagory of "not been there and have "NO idea" what the REAL world is like. Most of those live in the somewhat fairy tale land of school and government.

SOMETIMES it sounds to many of us that you almost agree with those who ridicule us. I do not believe that, BUT, those who HAVE "been there" often are just a tad more sensitive that maybe we should be, me included. I am not saying that it is a good thing, just reality. Please try to remember that many who have problems like PTSD and the like are often holding on to life and reality by their fingersnails. To many, pure academic musing often sounds like finger pointing and ridicule.

Please take this in the spirit meant. I am NOT writing this to scold, put down or belittle you. I am ONLY trying to point out how and why others might feel and ask that maybe your points would be better accepted IF you showed just a little more understanding in your writing to how and why many feel as they do.

 

[Turtle]

Actually, Layout, my statement was extremely black and white. I'll restate it so that you can fully understand what I'm saying...

America has produced a generation or more of people who have not had to deal with adversity or responsibility and have therefor never learned how to cope with things that are unfamiliar or unsettling. Many of these people get out of high school or college and get into the real world and have a hard time dealing with things as simple as getting fired for not doing their job. These people have not been properly prepared for life, whether it's been because we as a whole have not had to deal with real adversity and the ever-popular mentality of not taking responsibility for your actions and being able to blame everything on someone else, or because of their upbringing, it makes little difference.

I can make this statement without having served in the military, and it's a statement that stands on its own.

The military is far more intense than the real world, so the results of not being prepared for life are magnified by the stresses of the military.

Making these statements of fact in no way means I do not understand that it's a very real problem, nor does it mean that I have no empathy for those who are going through it. I can also make this statement knowing full well that I fit into that profile. I thought I was fully prepared for life, but found out very quickly in my late teens and early 20's that I was not. Realizing you're not prepared for the real world while you are in the real world is bad enough, but finding out you're not prepared for it after you get into the military is really bad, and is infinitely worse when you come to realize it when you are faced with the horrors of battle. I've had a few events happen in my life that were rather traumatic, and they had a lasting effect. But they were isolated and far between. I'll never understand, but I can certainly try to imagine what it must be like to be inundated with traumatic events and the lasting effect that must have on someone.

But back to my original statement of: "... we have just a snotload of very soft babies in adult bodies who are wholly unprepared for life, much less the military."

That's a statement that can be made with or without having served in the military, and if someone wants to take exception to it, fine. But I stand by it, 'cause I'm one of them. And I saw what my brother went through after he came out of the Army. Those who suffer from thing like PTSD are in an unfortunate situation of which they did not create for which there is no easy remedy. Pointing out some of the underlying root causes in no way demeans anyone. It is, in point of fact, at the crux of the matter in pointing out the why and how they feel the way they do. There is no question that someone who has not been though combat will never fully understand what it means to be in combat. But just because you haven't been in combat doesn't mean you can't understand the root causes of the problems of those with PTSD, nor does it mean you can't understand the realities of PTSD. The only thing it means is that someone who has never been in combat will never understand the realities of combat. It certainly doesn't mean that we should ignore the reality of a generation of people who were placed in combat who were mostly unprepared for the consequences of combat, and you certainly don't have to be a combat veteran to be able to see that reality.

 

[layoutshooter]

Ok Turtle, just try to remember that some FEEL things that you say sometimes are taken wrong. Even when you are right you should be keeping that in mind as you write. We all should.

I do agree that SOME of the last couple of generations are weak it does NOT mean that all or even a majority are weak.
Many children were raised and thought reality by people who are NOT weak and to not believe in weakness. Many thought their children to stand on their own two feet. Many of those kids went on to do quite well both in life and in stress positions, like combat.

Every person is an individual. Many things can lead to problems with re-adjustment. Like, the attitudes of sociaty towards the soldier and the wars that we ask them to fight.
The demonizing of those who understand that wars often must be fought is WRONG. Those people are facing the reality of the world. The weak do not understand that fact. The demonizing of those who go and fight that war is WRONG. The weak OFTEN do this. Maybe because of guilt,
stupidity or the result of a very bad education. An education designed to weaken young people.

When a person undergoes extreme stress and then hears things like that they start to second guess themselfs and actions. That in itself can cause problems. Many in this country HATE our military and those in it. It is an unfortunate truth that many in our government are of that ilk. At ALL levels. The attitudes of those so-called "leaders' will NOT help those who are having problems. They will only add to those problems.

Our troops deserve better. We have never been good as a nation of taking care of those who risk their all for us. Before we give health care to illegal aliens, bums, slackers and mal-contents, we SHOULD be giving it to those who EARNED it. Right now, we don't. We need to do much more to prepare those who go into combat to be ready for it. Giving "stress cards" that a basic trainee can flash at his DI when feeling stress is NOT an answer. (they used to do that not long ago, I don't know if they still are) Then, when they DO come home we should honor them IN PUBLIC, thank them for their duty and efforts. That would help. People heal faster when they are respected. Right now they are not. Just reference Obama's speachs on the Senate floor.

 

[arkjarhead]

Turtle,
The only time out in my house growing up was when my parents took "time out" of their busy day to whoop my butt. I took care of my sister while my step dad worked long hours and my mom was in college everyday 2 hours away. I don't think I had it the hardest growing up, but it wasn't easy. I started working at the age of 13. I know what's it's like to be fired. You can stand by your comments. I will stand by mine. I will also stand by the memories of my brothers and sisters that didn't make it home. They weren't soft at all. They were brave enough to lay down their lives so we can do what we do.
Also you might want to read some history. There have been reported cases of PTSD under different names for a long time back. Vietnam Vets were said to have "flashbacks", WW 2 Vets were said to have gotten "shell shock" and WW 1 Vets talked about "shell shock" as well. My grand paw told me his dad got "shell shock" in WW 1. I guess mental illness runs in the family. I read of Civil War Vets "Seeing the Elephant" which refers to the fear Hannibal put in his enemies in Anceint times if I'm not mistaken. This is nothing new. Another spin on this could be my generation has helped alot of the older "tougher" guys come to grip with the fact that they have demons in their closets and deal with them. You would be surprised how many older guys have come to me to and told me that seeing guys our age ask for help has made it easier for to finally ask for help after so many years. It's all perspective I guess.

 

[layoutshooter]

Hey Ark, don't forget "battle fatuige" and "battle Phsycosus" (sp?) You ARE correct, there is nothing new under the sun. What a lot of people DO NOT understand is that NO NORMAL person likes to go to war. They show bravdo mainly to cover their worry and fears. Normal people DO NOT want to kill anyone. Is there ANY doubt SO many have problems? Couple that with the Obama's and the Ayres of the world ridiculing and demonizing them it is a wonder that more don't "lose it". I can assure you that the attitudes of the current resident of the White House, and Slick Willy's and his witch wife pizzes me off to no end. It does amaze me how cowards who did NOT have the stones to step up and defend this Nation can LOATH those who do. They are just SO disgusting. There is no doubt in my pizzed off pea brain that these attitudes truely add to the problem. It is a REAL shame that we cannot find a way to hold those traitors responsible.

 

[cruzer]

It's none of my business but it sounds like some are trying to say, "Turtle, keep your unwanted opinions to yourself" as in many post right or wrong your opinions are not all that matters. Ark is speaking from experience!!!! He didn't look it up on the net to appear intelligent.

 

[greg334]

Sorry but PTSD and Shell Shock are actually two different things. Carlin put the terms on a treadmill as part of his act but many doctors who treat both of them, say there is a difference, a big difference between them.

Shell Shock is a short term problem where PTSD is a long term problem. The latter needs more than a month of symptoms to be properly diagnosed and years to treat.

Shell Shock, which is actually combat stress reaction is different because shell shock is an actual physical problem in addition to a mental problem. It includes ticks and incontrollable Parkinson style tremors and is part of the nerve damage from high explosive exposures.

The term comes from WW1 with the advent of trench warfare, it was actually recognized in 1905 in the Russian/Japanese war but not determined as something that would effect western armies. If the soldier wasn't rotated out of the lines at specific moments to relieve some of the combat stress, shell shock became evident within the units in the line. Most of the time, a soldier would spent months in the same spot in the line at the same time facing consent artillery fire all of which damaged the nerves themselves. Most cases of shell shock were temporary if teated but if they were untreated, it manifest it self into something greater which happened most of the time. Many of the WW1 vets didn't get the right treatment in time and it was a cause of their problems which most went right into a form of PTSD. NOW that is still different from the PTSD that the average WW1 vet eventually got.

Combat fatigue in WW2 was a bit different because most of the time there was rotation of the troops within the combat zones. PTSD was more of a problem than Shell Shock.

If you ever watched Band of Brothers, in one of the episodes one of the guys went back to an aid station because he could not see - that was a form of shell shock and it took hearing a familiar voice to shake him out of it.

Much of the shell shock that happened in WW2 was in the Pacific theater, mainly with island hopping. Places like Peleliu and Guadalcanal had a higher incident of shell shock than any other place.

The soldiers who this affected the most were the German soldier of WW2 on the eastern Front. When the Russians deployed their Stalinorgel, a mobile rocket launcher, it was used not to kill but to terrify the Germans and it did. If you are not familiar with it, it lets out a horrible screeching noise when fired and that sound carries for miles. It was devastating to moral of the Germans who were in the line of fire.

By the way Carlin got it all wrong.

 

[aristotle]

Courage comes in many forms... not just the physical courage shown by combat troops. The stress faced by our police, fire and rescue workers comes to mind. The unsung heroics of thousands of public schoolteachers who daily struggle with the outrageous behavior of troubled teens.... the single mom who doesn't know how this month's rent will be paid but still puts on a brave face for her children. That takes real courage.

Try working two miles inside the Earth in an underground coal mine. Dark. Damp. So noisy you can't hear yourself speak. High voltage electrical cables strewn loosely all around... and lots of dynamite. Unless you've made your peace with God, the underground mines can be especially unnerving. "Fire in the hole!" Indeed.

I marvel at the courage of common folks who consider their destiny and still get out of bed.

God bless our troops. Semper fi.

 

[RLENT]

If you make it through the entire thing without being sick or wanting to break someone you've done well.

Well, yes ...... very sick indeed .... I found it revolting .... although I suspect what sickens me - and what sickens you - might well be two different things ....

To those that have eyes, let them see ....

Here's what to expect with a leaderless liberal administration in charge.

Oh - you mean rabidly fanatical Christians (so-called, at least) running around, unchecked, in the streets, attempting to harass, attack and argue against the beliefs of others of a different faith, while sticking a video camera in someone's face ?

Or did you mean something else ?

If you look at Acts 17 Apologetics website you can kinda get an idea who these jokers are, and what they are all about - from their "mission statement":

"The mission of Acts 17 Apologetics Ministries is to glorify God by defending the Gospel of Jesus Christ from the ground up. (Editorial question: from the ground up ? Really ?) We present evidence for the existence and attributes of God, the inspiration and historical reliability of the Scriptures, and the death, resurrection, and deity of Jesus Christ. We also refute the arguments of those who oppose the True Gospel, most commonly the arguments of Muslims and atheists."

(Interesting that the two individuals that compose Acts17 Apologetics are a former Muslim and a former atheist - there's nothing like a reformed anything if you want true rabid, drooling fanaticism ....)

What they are into is challenging, refuting, and arguing against other religions (or beliefs) than their own - with the express intent of bringing those that they argue against into submission .... and thereby into the fold.

While I'm sure that they would claim otherwise (I was fairly sure I could see the faint glow of halos over both individuals heads), their method and intent is to use force (not physical) and nullification to do so. History is littered with folks of this ilk (Tomás de Torquemada comes quickly to mind as a well-known one) - they are never of any real benefit to their fellow man, and often are quite destructive, sowing the seeds of dissension wherever they go ....

It doesn't take much of a great mind to see that Acts17 Apologetics actual intent and motivation was not acquire real answers to actual questions that they have - they have no real questions .... but they do have an agenda .... and that is to portray a religion - any religion, I'm fairly sure, other than their own - in a less than flattering light.

It's really all about them being right and all others being wrong - and they are quite willing I'm sure, to get right up in your face to let you know it .... as evidenced by the video .... despite apparent requests by those they are videotaping to cease and desist ....

If a couple of Muslims (or Buddhists .. or Hindus .... or whatever) were doing a similar thing - say coming to Christian festival of some sort (music or otherwise) - equipped with video equipment to interrogate the participants and question folks about their beliefs (ostensibly in order to get them to "see" the error of their ways .... and the one, true light of course) I'm rather sure there would be howls of protest here .... and in that context, I sure the actions of the (apparently) middle eastern security guards (now being "Christian") wouldn't seem quite so bad - because obviously, the Christians are being persecuted ...... yeeeahhh .....

One wonders about the intelligence level of someone who would go someplace where it is fairly likely they would not be welcome (considering their true agenda), to deliver a message that by it's very nature would be unwelcome - and doing so all while sticking a camera in someone's face .... without even bothering to ask, as a matter of civilized courtesy whether the person minds being videotaped ..... and then be surprised when a situation such as the one in the video escalates into something greater.

It is the conduct of morons like these that actually cause folks to see people of religion as whack jobs, thereby driving people away from religion.

(FWIW, as someone who at one time was involved in professional video production, I suspect Mr. Qureshi would be well-advised to bone up a little on the laws regarding videotaping someone - especially since his chosen subjects don't seem at all willing. There is a reason that professional videographers obtain a "talent release" consent form from any individual being videotaped: Photography or Video Taping Consent)

Possibly something that folks might have missed is the conversation with the (white, anglo) security guard - where the guard informs Mr. Qureshi that it's fine if he wants to videotape and converse with other individuals and engage them in a dialog - provided he isn't getting into an argument with them and causing a disruption.

But, in fact, that is precisely Mr. Qureshi's intent - to argue with them - and he, by failing to be honest, to "come clean" with the guard about what his actual motivations and intentions are (to argue with those there, and let them know how wrong they are) is disingenuous at best, and, quite factually, he is being utterly dishonest (must be one of those "ends-justify-the-means" things .... and a great example of "Christian" behavior)

In fact, it would not surprise me to know that part of Mr. Qureshi's intent was indeed to intentionally cause the matter to escalate further (much better for his "message" I'm sure - and since Qureshi & Company are doing the taping and editing, they can of course taylor the final product and control the message to whatever suits their agenda)

I also suspect that "walking away" (as the security guard advised him to do) didn't figure anywhere into Mr.Qureshi's gameplan.

BTW, did anyone else (besides me) notice that the title of the piece - Arab Festival 2009: Sharia in the USA - had nothing whatsoever to do with the content of the video.

There was nothing about Sharia in the video at all (..... let alone "Sharia in the US") ..... despite claiming to be a "special report" about such ..... so much for "truth-in-labelling" .....

There are a number of other things that I could get into in regards to the video but I'm time-limited at the moment - suffice it to say:

One can rather easily surmise that the titling of the piece itself was therefore designed to manipulate the emotions (... of those who are fairly dim-witted and gullible ..... but may well pride themselves on crystal clear vision and right thinking)

One would do well to consider that one is watching an edited, produced video piece (no doubt edited by someone with an agenda) - and not raw footage, which could show the entirety of what actually happened, had the camera been left on ...... I rather suspect that portions of the video which did not further the agenda of those producing it, probably hit the virtual cutting floor, somewhere out there in the digital ether ......

Yeah Leo, I was disgusted .....

Not by anything about "Sharia in the US" ..... since there wasn't anything about that in the video - but by the rather uncivilized conduct of those that produced the video .... and just how low they were willing to stoop to try and accomplish their goals (the ultimate goal of the product they are producing is incitement of hatred against a religion other than their own) ..... lying to the police for one: "We're just trying to leave" - when in fact they were trying to do the exact opposite: stay - and then accuse the other party of lying to the police .... one couldn't possibly make up anything much more hypocritical than that .....

But then Boobus Americanus only sees what he wants to see ..... and hears what he wants to hear .......

 

[RLENT]

I hope the guys filming this video pressed charges of assault and battery against those security goons.

Yeah .... probably not gonna happen ..... if anything Act17 may well be civilly sued for harassment. And if they keep this sorta thing up they might be criminally prosecuted - as they probably should be.

What's kinda interesting is that Act17 apparently didn't bother to tape their interactions with the police .... wonder why that was ?

Afterall, the police supposedly told them that "no one could prevent them from taping anyone they wanted" (something that I highly doubt)

BTW, I hope that someone comes up while you are out in public enjoying yourself - say maybe with your wife and daughters and their families - and sticks a video camera in your puss and starts taping all of you, all while asking you questions - and without bothering to mention why they are doing it, or without bothering to ask for your permission to do so.

I hope they make such a big stink about it that no permit will be issued to allow that freaking event/fair/whatever next year.

Yup - deny entire groups of people the right to peaceably assemble without being harassed, (all based on their race, religion, or country of origin) .... as a consequence of the ill-informed actions of some private security guards.

Freedom in LDB's Amerika ....

It's nearing the point where certain undesirables are going to be driven out of this country one way or another and I'm less and less inclined to think it's a bad thing.

Leo ..... you are truly a real piece of work ....

As I told Pilgrim in another thread: you would probably be right at home in Joe Stalin's USSR ....

 

[witness23]

Very well done RLENT, not that you need any kudos from me but I would like to thank your for your well thought out post on this matter. I have wanted to comment on this since LDB posted it but I have not had the time to do so.

And if you are wondering, I am a Christian, I believe that the Bible is the true word of God. That Jesus came to us to show us the light of God's true love for man. That he was sacrificed on the cross for every man, woman and childs sin of this world and that he rose from the dead and ascended back to heaven.

I like what these men are doing, I just don't agree with the manner in which they are doing it.

With that said let me ask this question to those that are "appalled" by this video, what if this was an assembly of the Klan and 2 Black persons with video cameras wanted to ask some "questions" and they were treated identically the way these men were? Would you be appalled by the Klan's behavior or would you say that the Klan had every right to have them escorted of the premises where they had permission to assemble? Just a simple question.