To Post or Not To Post - That Be The Question Y'all

[Rocketman]

Zane..there is nothing wrong with what you do...or Rich for that matter. Im just pointing out that there is more profitable options out there. Take your time, do your research but dont be satisfied with cheap rates. The only winners in a cheap freight environment are the brokers/carriers who pass the freight around 2 or 3 times before it gets on your truck. They all get an easy split, you get what little is left.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

It is every ones option....do you want to run 100,000 miles for $65,000 or 80,000 miles for the same $65,000?...the "keeping the wheels turning" is a hoax.....encouraged by greedy carriers and brokers....

*Numbers are example only*

 

[BigCat]

It seems to me the multi carriers is nothing to benefit the driver. Plus just to confusing to keep up with who is loading me and when. Ill stick to one carrier and be happy and work when the time comes to leave the house. Then again ill only drive for fleet owners so whoever they contract with ill drive for.

 

[PreacherRich]

So, I guess there is a "magic number" out there that some of you think would be an acceptable rate per mile for a cargo van. I would be curious what you think that is. Don't get me wrong I want to run about 3000 miles a week for 2 weeks and make $1.50 a mile, then take 2 weeks off. When I figure out how to do that, I will let you know.

There are many things to think about I could probably sign on with a company like FedEx without to much hesitation I think they are paying cargo vans .85 plus .20 fsc so $1.05 total. Well, then I thinks about qualcom fees, workmans comp, them only allowing a solo driver to run loads that are 700 miles or less. Great company good opportunity.

But is that much better of an opportunity then I have right now? No, not really. My $1,000,000 liability and $100,000 cargo insurance only increases my insurance $72.33 a month. No qualcom, no workmans comp, always going to be first out with at least one of my carriers, no milage limits. I am actually quite pleased with my net for the first quarter this year. I can have my carriers hunt shorter loads over $1.25 or take longers loads for less. The cool thing is, I get to choose.

I know many people here think you have to have a sprinter to able to make it in expediting but I have to disagree. the sprinters/cargomax/nissans are quite pricey, they cost more to insure, the sprinters cost way more to repair and after spending a lot of time in a Sprinter driving for UPS, I feel MUCH better driving my Ford in the winter. I know many who are getting over 20 mpg in their sprinter and some that are getting really close to the same gas milage as me. Are there more loads available for sprinter type vehicle? Sure there is. Does that mean you can't make a living in a cargo van? Absolutely not! Though I do have to say the CargoMax will probably be my next purchase.

 

[PreacherRich]

Here it is....you can drive 10,000 miles a month to gross what $7,000 (or less?) if you want.

I'll be happy to drive less than 7,000 miles that same month for the same gross pay.

Its pretty simple...figure up your cost per mile and multiply by 3,000 and you'll see how much less it would cost to bring in that 7k by getting better rates.

Your example is only $.70 a mile, I hope that no one is out there averaging that. Sadly though there probably is.

 

[Rocketman]

Your example is only $.70 a mile, I hope that no one is out there averaging that. Sadly though there probably is.

I can tell you why I used .70/mile. The topic of the thread was about a carrier whom you had signed with dropped you for asking for .90/mile. That tells me that your running for less than .90/mile or else you wouldnt have agreed to whatever their lower rate was to begin with. You also made it clear that you wanted .90 gettin out of the house, which again, tells me your running for less than .90/mile otherwise. With that said...This aint my first rodeo either. 20% is a pretty common average for unpaid miles and .90 minus 20% will get you .72/mile for all miles. Im sure your numbers are better than that. Im pretty sure by reading your posts that your not getting .90/mile consistently....thats why I dropped my all miles estimate to .70/mile. If your running for .90/mile or less loaded...I personally dont think your squeezing .70/mile out of it for all miles.
But...I wont dispute whatever you say your doing. Thats just the way I see it using your own numbers and comments.

As for a "magic" number. Ive owned a few trucks, from t/t to now a CargoMax. I can tell you that there is one constant Ive found throughout the industry. Your overall fuel cost for all miles needs to be in the range of 25% or less of your gross "linehaul" pay, including fsc, for all miles. (Accessorials, detention, layover, etc, etc should be in addition to the linehaul).

At 25%...or less, Im happy. At anything around 28-30%, Im concerned. At anything above 30%, Im looking for a change...either in my fuel mileage or in the rates Im running for.

As for workmens comp...I "think" it was optional for me at LoadOne (John?). I dont really remember because I knew I wanted it anyway. Your fooling yourself if you think there isnt a need to be insured for work related injury.

Qualcom...I'll give ya that. It is a tool and some claim they make money off of it. Personally, I miss the 4 hour check calls with dispatch. The qualcom takes a lot of the human interaction between driver and dispatcher out of the equation. I struggle daily with that. I always used the check calls to get to know the dispatchers and build relationships with them. By the time I got to delivery, I usually had a good idea of whether I needed to turn and burn or sit nearby. I usually had a pretty good idea of how many trucks would be in the area, etc, etc. Im lost as a goose on every one of those subjects with the qualcom doing the communicating.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

As for a "magic" number. Ive owned a few trucks, from t/t to now a CargoMax. I can tell you that there is one constant Ive found throughout the industry. Your overall fuel cost for all miles needs to be in the range of 25% or less of your gross "linehaul" pay, including fsc, for all miles. (Accessorials, detention, layover, etc, etc should be in addition to the linehaul).

At 25%...or less, Im happy. At anything around 28-30%, Im concerned. At anything above 30%, Im looking for a change...either in my fuel mileage or in the rates Im running for.

After almost 12 years of CVing...those numbers are pretty well spot on target...

There is yet another business model we don't discuss hardly ever...."that is Run cheap and run hard".....never spend a dime on repairs, run the tires off and trash the van after 4 years and get out of the business, taking all the loot with you...

 

[jelliott]

Qualcomm or other satellite tracking systems have become industry standard. Customers expect their carriers to have this technology on the trucks. Expedite is a premium product. I am guessing many of these carriers do not always come clean with the customer on this. As well with items like video training, internet access, in cab scanning and such they have some pretty nice advantages for the driver.

Occ Acc or work comp is normally more of a state by state issue. Rich, it is a very cheap investment to protect you and most of all your family. Things happen out there that are beyond peoples control. I have seen far too many people lose everything because they failed to have a minimal level of coverage.

 

[chefdennis]

My QC has the Scanner in it and a GPS...it cost me $32 a week, it pays for itself...the Occ insurance in MOST states is "optional" for the owner...but not for a driver in another persons truck...i don't have it, i have personal insurance......but it is a state issue not a company...

As for the magic #..yea Rocketmans, number on the fuel cost are pretty much spot on and for 99.9% of what goes to my truck, its not an issue....

As I said, i'll run for an avg of $1.25-$1.28 a mile all day, and get the miles that made be over $100,000 last yr.....if i have to worry about a $30 deduction a week when i aill DH whatever amount of miles to see friends or go to dinner on my own time, then i'll get out of the business before ill run for more then one carrier for cheap rates.....it just doesn't make since when you can buy a unit that will let you make good money, be profitable, a not run yourself and your equipment ragged and do it with just 1 "GOOD" carrier...

I've posted my 1 qter #'s somewhere, lol, i got pm's telling me im a liar or a bragger...its what it is...anyone that doesn't believe that making money in this business with a single contractor isnt possible or "cost more money" then running without a qc and occ ins or that it "infringes on your freedom" to do what you want, stop by, ill show you all my #s from my fleet vison and or my 1099 from my carrier.....

 

[PreacherRich]

As for a "magic" number. Ive owned a few trucks, from t/t to now a CargoMax. I can tell you that there is one constant Ive found throughout the industry. Your overall fuel cost for all miles needs to be in the range of 25% or less of your gross "linehaul" pay, including fsc, for all miles. (Accessorials, detention, layover, etc, etc should be in addition to the linehaul).

At 25%...or less, Im happy. At anything around 28-30%, Im concerned. At anything above 30%, Im looking for a change...either in my fuel mileage or in the rates Im running for..

Like it, gives people a range to look at.

 

[Rocketman]

Like it, gives people a range to look at.

You actually have more control over those numbers than most realize. Good linehaul rates are the backbone, but improving your fuel mileage and reducing your unnecassary empty miles can make huge impacts on those numbers as well.

When I first started in a straight truck (2nd carrier), I run a lot of cheap miles. The only way I could make it work even remotely close to acceptable was to turn down anything under 1,000 miles. With the longer runs (detroit to laredo...then back to detroit generally), I could keep the empty mike % low enough to offset some of the low ball rates. I did it for 4 months until I got a chance to lease on with C&M. I couldnt get to Painesville fast enough.

 

[ATeam]

You actually have more control over those numbers than most realize. Good linehaul rates are the backbone, but improving your fuel mileage and reducing your unnecassary empty miles can make huge impacts on those numbers as well.

When I first started in a straight truck (2nd carrier), I run a lot of cheap miles. The only way I could make it work even remotely close to acceptable was to turn down anything under 1,000 miles. With the longer runs (detroit to laredo...then back to detroit generally), I could keep the empty mike % low enough to offset some of the low ball rates. I did it for 4 months until I got a chance to lease on with C&M. I couldnt get to Painesville fast enough.

In what ways are things different at C&M? What changes to your operation were you able to make? What changes were you unable to make?

 

[PreacherRich]

Qualcomm or other satellite tracking systems have become industry standard. Customers expect their carriers to have this technology on the trucks. Expedite is a premium product. I am guessing many of these carriers do not always come clean with the customer on this. As well with items like video training, internet access, in cab scanning and such they have some pretty nice advantages for the driver.

Occ Acc or work comp is normally more of a state by state issue. Rich, it is a very cheap investment to protect you and most of all your family. Things happen out there that are beyond peoples control. I have seen far too many people lose everything because they failed to have a minimal level of coverage.

I appreciate your replies greatly! I am not really that familiar with all the benefits of Qualcomm just the $125 a month seems pricey with programs like macropoint and the slew of other tracking programs that are coming out.

100% agree with you that everyone needs to protect themselves and their families, as an insurance agent, all of you Michiganders are welcome to contact me for a free evaluation of all your insurance needs!

 

[Rocketman]

In what ways are things different at C&M? What changes to your operation were you able to make? What changes were you unable to make?

The main difference was about .25-.30/mile immediate increase in linehaul rate. Another huge benefit was that C&M used practical mile routing which meant that you actually got paid for all the miles you ran. That was another reason that I refused most loads other than detroit to laredo at the previous carrier. By running detroit to laredo, there was only about a 35-40 mile loss and that was spread over a 1500 mile run. I have seen as much as a 75 mile difference on a 650 mile run with the shorter runs, 40-50 mile shortages were almost guaranteed.

The shortage of miles not only effects a drop in your linehaul rate, but on a straight through run, dispatched at 50 mph, those extra miles have to be made up if you plan to make the delivery time. On that particular load the extra miles also made that run completely impossible to run legaly. A solo can run a 650 mile run straight through, but when you re-calculate that to actual miles...your gonna be short.

So, what was I able to change at C&M? My rates increased immediately to a rate that was competitive across the board with other carriers considering the truck class, similiarly equipped, solo trucks. I could run the shorter loads at a good rate without having to give up part of the revenue to an outdated and purely unethical routing system. C&M had more freight, at better rates and the difference in professionalism was profound. What could I not change at C&M? Really the only limitations I had there were my own. I was not a team and never wished to be. I never attempted to stay on the road for months at a time. Three weeks out and a week to 10 days at home were fine by me.

I am with Load One now, not because I found anything wrong with C&M, but because I decided to move to a Sprinter type vehicle and I feel Load One does a better job with that. That has not been a clear cut successful decision yet, but I do believe it will prove to be at some point. Leaving C&M was not an easy decision to make and any advantage gained by the move will probably be, and was expected to be, borderline worth making the jump. There was no clear cut advantage with this last move. I was with C&M about 4 years total.

 

[PreacherRich]

I was talking to a new friend and EO member at the Pilot in Laredo today, he also runs for multiple carriers, drives a cargo van and demands a good rate (yes Rocketman his fuel cost is well below 25%) He made an awesome point. If he is demanding a good rate and he is posted with 4 different carriers and they are all bidding that above average rate, wouldn't that bring up rates instead of bringing them down?

I met a driver today in a brand new sprinter, $1000 a month payment and runs for Lowball Express (not real company name) I ask this dude how much he was getting per mile he said he was making 80 cents a mile, sometimes less. I asked if that was plus fsc, he said no that was all in. He then went on to tell me how great things were... soon after I get a call from a dispatcher, he bid a load 1600 miles out of Laredo, the broker called and said the rate would need to quite a bit lower to get the load. I dropped my rate a bit, on day 4 in Laredo, it's time to go. 10 minutes later the guy in the Sprinter jumps out all excited about the 1600 mile load he just got. That my friends is why there are problems with rates right now, it's not multi-carrier drivers, it is the drivers that will go anywhere anytime for any rate along with the carriers and brokers that prey on them.

 

[CharlesD]

Your friend demands a higher rate and his carriers are bidding that rate, but other carriers who are looking to see how much competition is in a certain area are basing their bids on the number of vehicles posted in that area. Basic supply and demand really, rates go down with more capacity.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Agreed Charles....shippers and carriers see the capacity....too many trucks usually ='s a overall lower rate.....anyone will tell ya when there are a crap load of vans in Laredo you are lucky to get .50-.60 outta there....BUT when there are a lot fewer, the price is higher to get out, on average.

 

[chefdennis]

It is all about the carrier and just how bad they will bendover and then bend the O/O over...Thank fully my carrier is a "Stand Up" guy and I'll put my 1099 from that carrier up to compare to any multi carrier any time.....

As for Capacity being the issue, yeap when its high the rates go down, but again, my carrier pays me to sit, then pays me to move if need be..but most often they will pay me for a long DH (at the same rate as loaded miles)before they will take a subpar rate or they will up my % of the lower rate, take less themselves and pay me what would be over the norm...

4 days in Laredo?? Nope, 2 days paid sitting, moved the 3rd day with pay....Now if i get there on a Fri, I'll stay all weekend just to have a good time or DH on my own dime up to Dallas to a friends "place of business" for dinner and a fun weekend....

It is all about the carrier.....and their integrity....work with a good one, and you only need 1......

 

[PreacherRich]

Well the capacity issue can be addressed on the bid board level. Simply posting vin #'s or a permanent driver ID and grouping them will take care of that. Then you will have an accurate picture of the vehicles available. I doubt it is even on their radar to make the adjustment and wont be until carriers start asking for it. But again, some carriers like things a bit muddy and I believe that some larger carriers with solid shipper contracts are hoping that low rates will force some small companies out of business. I agree that too much capacity will drive rates down, so the boards and the organizations behind them need to correct this flaw.

But hey, people didn't want electricity, microwaves and automobiles until they tried it.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Keeping the water muddy serves some carriers just fine...