This is scary

[layoutshooter]

Being able to think for youself is liberating!!! It makes it much harder for you to be led. It empowers you and frees you from the stupidity of following and accepting. By the way, I am NOT a right winger in the modern accepted term. I believe in our Constitution. The modern left does NOT and the modern right only sort of. Layoutshooter

 

[Tennesseahawk]

Well gentlemen as I said before I just strayed from the general expediting forum to take a look around, it's obvious that this in not my environment so I'm going back; but the lingering question in my mind remains: what in earth would compel a working class adult to become a right winger?, when it makes as much sense as being a black Klansman!.
It's been nice talking to you all, best of luck.

I'll answer that in the short form... some of us grew up.

 

[aristotle]

Why would anyone necessarily assign a negative connotation to the term "propaganda" ... all governments and all political parties, including the present one, use propaganda everyday to shape public opinion. It is used to marshal support for public policy, legislation, foreign affairs, etc.

Propaganda seeks to build a consensus for or against a person, idea or poliical movement. It is an absoutely vital tool in preparing a nation for war. FDR had a first rate propaganda team working around the clock leading up to, and during, World War II. Again, every administration uses propaganda to advance an agenda.

 

[greg334]

FDR had a first rate propaganda team working around the clock leading up to, and during, World War II. Again, every administration uses propaganda to advance an agenda.

Actually this went back to the 1932 election and the use of propaganda to tell the people how Hoover's plans will not work. FDR later used a lot of what Hoover campaigned on. He had a very effective staff, thanks to their study of the Soviet's propganda and political arms of the government.

Going back a bit further, Wilson had two groups using propaganda, one to further his idea to trash the Constitution and the other was American Protective League, which was a Brownshirt organization. He firmly believed in his pea sized intelligentsia mind that the Constitution was a hindernce to the people in power and the rights of the individual didn't matter.

 

[Pilgrim]

Actually this went back to the 1932 election and the use of propaganda to tell the people how Hoover's plans will not work. FDR later used a lot of what Hoover campaigned on. He had a very effective staff, thanks to their study of the Soviet's propganda and political arms of the government.

Going back a bit further, Wilson had two groups using propaganda, one to further his idea to trash the Constitution and the other was American Protective League, which was a Brownshirt organization. He firmly believed in his pea sized intelligentsia mind that the Constitution was a hindernce to the people in power and the rights of the individual didn't matter.

Sounds like the current occupant of the White House has more than a few things in common with Wilson, not the least of which is his campaign proposal to establish a civilian defense organization with power equal to the military.

 

[iceroadtrucker]

HMMM Interesting

I wonder.

Na

 

[RLENT]

Why would anyone necessarily assign a negative connotation to the term "propaganda" ... all governments and all political parties, including the present one, use propaganda everyday to shape public opinion. It is used to marshal support for public policy, legislation, foreign affairs, etc.

Propaganda seeks to build a consensus for or against a person, idea or poliical movement. It is an absoutely vital tool in preparing a nation for war. FDR had a first rate propaganda team working around the clock leading up to, and during, World War II. Again, every administration uses propaganda to advance an agenda.

Good grief ......

"Propaganda is the dissemination of information aimed at influencing the opinions or behaviors of large numbers of people. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense presents information in order to influence its audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda."

Please note the use of the word "emotional" and most particularly the word "rational" in the above definition ....

I guess if you like being ignorant, ill-informed, and ceding the really important decisions to "those who know best" .... then yeah, propaganda is really great.

 

[greg334]

Pilgrim,
Obama's idea is right inline with the Blackshirts or Brownshirts - take your pick.

 

[aristotle]

Good grief ......

"Propaganda is the dissemination of information aimed at influencing the opinions or behaviors of large numbers of people. As opposed to impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense presents information in order to influence its audience. Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the attitude toward the subject in the target audience to further a political agenda."

Please note the use of the word "emotional" and most particularly the word "rational" in the above definition ....

I guess if you like being ignorant, ill-informed, and ceding the really important decisions to "those who know best" .... then yeah, propaganda is really great.

RLENT, despite your protests, effective propaganda is essential to winning wars. I'm not pro-war. I'm for winning wars. Yes, propaganda plays to the emotions, but going to war is not exclusively a rational decision. Going to war is usually an emotional response to an untenable threat or set of circumstances. One would have to be naive to dismiss the value and function of propaganda.

The outcome of WW2 was not predestined in our favor. Between the German juggernaut and the fierce Japanese empire, the United States could have easily failed to achieve victory. After the slaughter of WWI, Americans had no stomach for another war. Yet, WW2 was coming and FDR, to his credit, effectively employed propaganda to garner the support of the American people for a mega-war. For a democracy to go to war, a massive and immediate mobilization is sometimes crucial to winning. Popular support from the public is likewise essential. Read Churchill's writings on this subject.

 

[greg334]

aristotle
So is that why we used Hollywood to produce such great films like "why we fight" and "the engine of democracy"?

 

[mjolnir131]

No FDR's campaign for joining WW2 was not propaganda I'm sorry when we did get to the laundromat we found how that Hitler was much much worse than had been painted.

That said; Propaganda is only propaganda when you disagree with it when you agree with it, it becomes the living Gospel.

 

[greg334]

No FDR's campaign for joining WW2 was not propaganda I'm sorry when we did get to the laundromat we found how that Hitler was much much worse than had been painted.

I'm confused, when did we get to the laundromat?

 

[aristotle]

aristotle
So is that why we used Hollywood to produce such great films like "why we fight" and "the engine of democracy"?

Greg, you know the answer. Propaganda comes in many forms. Nations at war use every possible tool in their arsenal: the element of surprise, disinformation, misinformation, subterfuge, sabotage, deceit, etc. Propaganda is all about the psychology of a people at war. Getting a nation's collective will up for a fight is no easy thing. Unfortunately, there is much truth to the old saying, "all is fair in love and war." Intangibles, such as propaganda, are just as important to winning as are guns and manpower.

The do-gooders of the world wring their hands over such niceties as fairness. Any student of history knows that truth is the first casualty of war.

 

[mjolnir131]

I'm confused, when did we get to the laundromat?

I would say around 22JUL44 when we liberated Majdanek, that was the first load anyways but we had been getting clues before that .

And in case you really did not understand "It all comes out in the wash" was the referance

 

[mjolnir131]

The do-gooders of the world wring their hands over such niceties as fairness. Any student of history knows that truth is the first casualty of war.

Possibly, but with the peace at all cost cowards it is also the first casualty against war as well.

 

[aristotle]

No FDR's campaign for joining WW2 was not propaganda I'm sorry when we did get to the laundromat we found how that Hitler was much much worse than had been painted.

That said; Propaganda is only propaganda when you disagree with it when you agree with it, it becomes the living Gospel.

Have you seen the films and posters produced from 1939 to 1945, produced right here in America with the blessings of the American government which dehumanize the Germans and Japanese? They are depicted as being less than human. Every conceivable racial slur and monstrous stereotype is attached to them. There were no constraints by political correctness back then. Most of what was put out to the public would make us cringe today.

Of course, the Japs and Huns as we called them, similarly engaged in propaganda against us. There were atrocities committed. That is the nature of war and the nature of man. War is ugly. Losing is not an option.

 

[greg334]

Thanks, I was looking for the date.

We didn't liberate the camp, the Soviets did and it was sometime in early 1942 that we confirmed the existence of the smaller camps that was rumored in early '42. The Soviets knew about the camps all along. Himmler in 43 (I think it was mid or late 43) actually started to try to negotiate with the Jewish groups in Switzerland to sell Jews to them, he did reach out to the US and the Brits at one time but because of internal issues, he pulled back (Borman). I don't recall how many got out but there were some. The OSS through the contacts in the German high command were reporting back to FDR what was going on. They, these german army officers, were providing a lot of information to the US and the Brits. The amazing thing was Stalin had an insider right in Hitler's inner circle, some speculate it was Speer, others think it was Himmler.

 

[greg334]

Losing is not an option.

When you are faced with fanatics, you use what ever means to win.

The problem today is people here are so insulated from the reality of the world. They think that all things that are done to survive and protect should be humane and follow some sort of protocol but it isn't that way at all.

 

[mjolnir131]

i know the soviets are the ones who freed it ,I'm talking about the info trickling down to the citizenry not just shared between those in the know.

 

[mjolnir131]

Have you seen the films and posters produced from 1939 to 1945, produced right here in America with the blessings of the American government which dehumanize the Germans and Japanese? They are depicted as being less than human. Every conceivable racial slur and monstrous stereotype is attached to them. There were no constraints by political correctness back then. Most of what was put out to the public would make us cringe today.

Of course, the Japs and Huns as we called them, similarly engaged in propaganda against us. There were atrocities committed. That is the nature of war and the nature of man. War is ugly. Losing is not an option.

Yes and it was justifiable because they had devolved to that stereo type when they elected who they did, just as we are responsible for all of Barack's moves