This is scary

greg334

Veteran Expediter
When you look at the landscape of America's businesses, you see failures all over the place. One of them has been with the Mega Banks and I guarnetee you in the near future the other will be mega medical companies, like Pharma companies.

I worked at the worlds largest Phama company, I know first hand what happens at the top and in the middle. This company took over another company and laid the other company off (I mean they cleaned house and got rid of half of the workforce of both companies.)

Now I read this morning that Merck is buying Schering-Plough, which will make it the second largest and no doubtly will have a lot of lay offs which can be abvoided. But there is a bigger issue....

I am reading more and more about socilized medicine and what is being proposed. There are a lot of problems with the idea of socilized medicine but the biggest one is the idea that any company is too big to fail that has been applied to other industries.

If you don't know, Canada tells a company who wants to sell drugs in their market how much money they will accept as a price to the consumer. England and the EU does the same thing but we herein the state don't. We support these companies to allow them that allows them to negotiate the prices with other countires.

If we go to socialize medicine the first thing that will happen is the prices of drugs will be negotiated, like Medicare Part D and Canada. Profits will be taken into account and the government will dictate to the pharma companies where their money will go and for what. But to take this a step further, R&D will suffer a lot, we will see profits (incentives) faulter and the Mega Pharma compaines collapse.

To the lefty this all sounds good but to someone who has been involved with a lot of drug development projects, I see declining discoveries and then changes in the FDA New Drug process that will allow more fast tracking and more safety issues.

Discoveries rarely come from Mega Pharma companies, they buy discoveries and there is a whole market out there where discovery patents are bought and sold.

My fear is seeing job losses in the thousands, I went through this where 5000 of us were let go in the first round in this state and almost 45,000 were let go after the merger.

My other fear is how can the government allow this, it is a democratic administration and they are ignoring the reason we have a process so these companies don't get too large.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Similar to what you're saying is that a socialized system will dictate what drugs they will or will not allow in the system. Gone will be the drugs that treat obscure diseases. Gone will be treatments for diseases that mainly affect the elderly, since they won't be productive members of the "collective". Innovation will go out the window as a result. With the government basically controlling profit margins, so goes incentive.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
The more Nationalization of health care you have, the less health care you will have. It is NOT possible to get more for less. There will be rationing, fewer drugs and a much lower standard of care. As always, we in this country, are throwing out the baby with the bath water. We accept numbers when they are shouted as us without question. Like, 40 million un-insured. Where did that number come from? Was it arrived at in a true scientific manner? Has it been verified? Why are they un-inusred? Is any of the number self-insured? ETC. And what, pray tell, makes anyone think that everyone is ENTITLED to health insurance? Your health is YOUR responsibility. I tire of hearing about how much it costs be see amusement parks full, hockey games full, everyone on the internet playing for the most part, cell phones in every ear and cable tv in every house. Then cry you can't afford to take care of yourself. I know there are problems. There are MANY causes. Like, rediculess law suits, un-needed and intrusive government regulations to name a few. We need to slow down just a bit and really determine what the problems are and come up with a proper fix. Government is NOT the answer. They have proven themselfs to be incompitent. I don't want some senator, congressmen or president running my health care. I want to live a bit longer. Layoutshooter
 

hdxpedx

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
Layout those numbers come from the LIARS on the left! That youtude video showing pelousy chanting a COMPLETE LIE while 4 yrs earlier the RIGHT was ON RECORD trying to stop TODAYS MESS.. same BULL is used.. HOW anyone on the LEFT ain't INSULTED by pelousy's RECORDED PLAYED OUT LIES. Floors ME!! She NEVER will INSULT MY INTELLIGENCE!! IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID!!
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Yes, I am aware that those numbers are, for the most part, made up. Just as the numbers used to "justify" taking away our guns are either outright lies or un-justly "scewed" to "prove" a point. What is sad is that SO many Americans just believe "FACTS" given to them just because it is on TV!!. It seems that so few today have the gumption to question anything. Why do so many just accept what they are told on face value? I need real "Proof" before I am willing to pay for ANYTHING or give up anything. The "Left" are much better at the "numbers game" than the "right" is. Both sides do it. I frankly don't trust any of them. After all, they are polititions and therefor liars. It is difficult to get REAL fact and numbers but it can be done. It is the RESPONSIBILITY of EVERONE who votes to find out the FACTS!!! I would be willing to bet that I can PROVE that most of what you hear on TV is at best, "a little off" and at worst, a "bald face lie". Layoutshooter
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
The way the numbers are figured is pretty much how our census is figured.

The first thing that is included are invaders.

Second thing is surveys are used which ask the question - do you have patients who have no coverage on certain procedures. Those are included in some of the "uninsured" studies.

Third thing is that they include people who are on Cobra or between jobs

The fourth thing is they include a segment of adults who are in college but are covered by their parents insurance. They are not insured by the standard used to define insured.

Fifth thing is that they include homeless people and people who refuse to take medicare and medicaid.

In reality we don't have the access crisis that they have twisted this all into but we have a third payer crisis where this has gotten out of hand because insurance covers more than they should. The costs are directly related to a lot of factors, one is that an insurance company pays for a lot of elective surgery, like tattoo removal and sex change operations and this leaves less money for actual needed procedures so the insurance company has to raise the rates in order to cover everything - which by the way there are some things that are mandated by law.
 

MrGautama

Not a Member
Just strayed from the general forum to see what else I could find around here, it never ceases to amaze me how deep the corporate kool-aid runs in the minds of the average citizen; how unlikely we are to take a reasonable look at things instead of just repeating what O'Reilly on Faux News wants us to believe. What is interesting is that the common American tends to be a realy nice person but I imagine that all those years of anti-comunism propaganda had a devastating effect on the national ability to think for ourselves.
 

MrGautama

Not a Member
Mr G..... what's wrong with anti-communism propaganda? Would you prefer pro-communism?

It really doesn't matter what kind of propaganda we are talking about, it's always used to create an emotional rather than a rational response in the population; when rationality is suppressed in the public discourse the consequence often become some of the darkest chapters of human history. For a democracy to work the people need information as impartial as possible and not a set of half truths in order to further a political agenda. I think that the question is not what kind of propaganda I prefer but if it's possible to some day live without it.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Mr G..... what's wrong with anti-communism propaganda?
I'm not Mr. G - but I'll be happy to give you my thoughts from where I sit:

The best way to prevent an individual of observing what is occurring in his immediate environment (and thereby being in a position to do anything about it) is to fix his attention elsewhere .... not here ..... but over there .....

Would you prefer pro-communism?
Nah ..... I'd just prefer to skip the propaganda altogether .....

Added: G - you're too quick on the draw for me ..... but I'm happy to see that great minds think similarly ...... at least in some respects .....
 
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MrGautama

Not a Member
aka MSNBC :rolleyes:

MSNBC is communist propaganda?, you can't be serious; we live in a country with two political tendencies: the extreme right and the moderate right (also known as republicans and democrats). For crying out loud we don't even have a labor party much less any left leaning one. The press is divided pretty much in the same way and considering the moderate right press as communist propaganda is a bit absurd, I imagine that from inside the fishbowl things can seem distorted.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Sorry Mr. Gautama, I am really bored this morning.

how unlikely we are to take a reasonable look at things instead of just repeating what O'Reilly on Faux News wants us to believe.

Oh really.

OK my sources are the following;

Pfizer
Merke
PhRMA
BCBS Michigan
BCBS Connecticut
BCBS New York
U of M Medical
Purdue
Harvard
Yale

I didn’t repeat Fox news of O’reilly, I don’t like him.

MSNBC is communist propaganda?, you can't be serious;

I wouldn’t go that far but a propaganda machine most definitely.

You may like to live in that world where you can’t see this but MSNBC, like NBC is owned by GE. GE has been pushing the green thing (and the super grid) really hard behind the scenes and with the dems support. GE has used both NBC and MSNBC to propagate propaganda in many different subtle ways, just look at GMA and the changes they made. The sad thing is Fox has followed suit and I am hearing ABC and CBS doing the same thing but I don’t watch them much. Fox’s 24 has a little bit at the end of the last two shows claiming that they are conscience of the effects of global warming and they take steps to reduce their foot print by turning off lights, using less resources and so on. But like Hollywood in general, they fail to understand that they still use 500% more resources for one show than ten times the amount used for a truck like mine in one year.

we live in a country with two political tendencies: the extreme right and the moderate right (also known as republicans and democrats).

I don’t agree, we live in a country that has several political tendencies, most of which are blurred right now. We no longer have a Democratic and Republican Party, but we have demopublican party. We don’t have anything near an extreme right in this country, if we did we would be seeing a huge increase of nationalism and ‘corrections’ to things like abortion but rather we have a very left faction that has control of a lot of things and a weak fractioned right. We lack balance of any sort in congress and this has a direct source of the dumbing down of our population through a unionized public education system.

For crying out loud we don't even have a labor party much less any left leaning one.

Thank God we don’t have a strong labor party; we don’t need on in this country.

The press is divided pretty much in the same way and considering the moderate right press as communist propaganda is a bit absurd, I imagine that from inside the fishbowl things can seem distorted.

The press or media as I like to call it is not divided; they are far from objective and far from being divided. In fact unless you lived in a cave for the past few months, there has been so much of a swell of adoration from the media with Obama that is can be considered an obsession with stalking tendencies. Just take for Michelle Obama, she is an unelected official but the media is treating her as important to the country as the president.

The media is selective in what they cover, during the campaign they refused to bring up Wright or Aires, one is a racist and the other is a real terrorist equal to Bin Ladin and McVie but the press covered Obama’s back with those subjects. They did a good job.
 

mjolnir131

Veteran Expediter
MSNBC is communist propaganda?, you can't be serious; we live in a country with two political tendencies: the extreme right and the moderate right.

YES it's very serious,I would add CNN to that list as well. The big problem is you have been raised in a school system that is just as biased as the news that you don't even realize you have been taught to think that way and you think your a free thinking.

If you think socialism and fascism are at opposite end of the political spectrum your biased,you might not know it (or want to admit it) but you have been conditioned to believe your not when you are!

Communism,socialism and fascism are all right there next to dictatorships and monarchies in the big picture and republic and Allthings are down on the freedom end of the graph.

For years groups have tried to divide the political picture unnaturally along a left/right socialist /fascist line (possibly to hide there intentions who knows) and you sir are a prim example that they are succeeding

Stop playing at being a free thinker and start being one!
 

MrGautama

Not a Member
Well gentlemen as I said before I just strayed from the general expediting forum to take a look around, it's obvious that this in not my environment so I'm going back; but the lingering question in my mind remains: what in earth would compel a working class adult to become a right winger?, when it makes as much sense as being a black Klansman!.
It's been nice talking to you all, best of luck.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I will try to answer your question but I am not a ‘right winger” I am a classic liberal to a point.

I told my Father yesterday what my real problem is, opportunity and freedom. I have all these skills but I am in an employer job market which is really bad. I have to deal with special considerations for union workers over the common man and it has been a struggle for 6 years.

Back when the great depression was at its worst, my paternal grandfather was laid off from the coal mines of PA. He wasn’t alone, my uncles were too.

He decided that he would take his Model T and use that to buy produce and sell it in the city. He would go to the farmers and make a deal with them, he would take their produce and give them a few pennies more than wholesale if they let him pay them later in the week. The farmers agreed and he was on his way with an overloaded Model T. He sold everything every day that he put in that car, he produced enough money to have a savings to hold him over through the winter and some left in the spring. He traveled down south and did the same thing in the winter time, even selling fish, sleeping in the car and so on.

See he could do this because of the opportunity and freedom to do what he needed to do in order to make money.

So fast forward to today.

I can’t not even approach selling produce out of my truck. I have to have so many permits and license and insurance not to mention I need to follow food safety regulations and so on.

I can’t go into a factory and offer my services to them for what I think is a fair wage to me, I can’t do a union job even though I am capable to doing that because the union prevents that from happening. My freedom to barter with the company is stopped by the protectionism of the union by the unfair labor laws of my state.


My opportunities are very limited, my ability to do what I feel I need to do to make it are equally limited and this is why I lean to freedoms and free markets opposed to worker representation and all that.

Watching the UAW at work in the factories and behind the scenes further reinforced my idea that we can do a lot better with less taxes, the freedom to choose our own paths and the right to own property and do what we want. My turning point was in the early 90’s when I sat with the VP of the UAW and discussed if I should become a unionized company.

Now one thing that I think you are coming from is the European idea of how labor should be in control, well I understand that but when you look at how the European thought has been stifled and why people come here to prosper, you may understand that we should think of freedoms for all and not the restrictions of labor unions that are imposed on all of us.
 
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