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ATeam

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Best to Take the 5th Amendment

I just saw a lawyer's commentary regarding the upcoming testimonies of Donald, Don Jr. Eric and Ivanka Trump in the NY fraud trial. He pointed out that the judge has already found three of these Trumps (not Ivanka) liable for massive, systemic, years-long fraud. There is nothing the Trumps can say under oath that will change that. It's best, the lawyer said, for them to cite the 5th Amendment and say nothing when they are asked to answer questions about their activities or Trump Organization details. If they say anything, they risk providing more evidence to support a larger disgorgement penalty, or they risk committing perjury.

I don't know what the Trump lawyers are advising their clients to do. To me, pleading the 5th seems like a wise thing for the Trumps to do. We'll soon see if it that makes sense to the Trumps. The kids may find it easy to plead the 5th. Donald may find it impossible to keep his mouth shut.

It's going to be interesting to see how he responds when the prosecuting attorney asks (words to this effect) "Isn't it true that you're nowhere near as rich as you have claimed to be, and the money you do have came from fraud?"
 
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Pilgrim

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
ATeam said:
Best to Take the 5th Amendment

I just saw a lawyer's commentary regarding the upcoming testimonies of Donald, Don Jr. Eric and Ivanka Trump in the NY fraud trial. He pointed out that the judge has already found three of these Trumps (not Ivanka) liable for massive, systemic, years-long fraud.
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Which attorney is this, that claims to know a judge has already decided three defendants are guilty before hearing their testimony and case for defense? Wonder if he can spell "Reversable Error"?
ATeam said:
It's going to be interesting to see how he responds when the prosecuting attorney asks (words to this effect) "Isn't it true that you're nowhere near as rich as you have claimed to be, and the money you do have came from fraud?"
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His lawyer will object and the leading question will be withdrawn.
 
C

coalminer

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter

This article goes into pretty good depth on what is going on in our country currently. At least now I know I am not the only one who believes that if Trump wins next year that we are on the road to being a dictatorship.
 
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Pilgrim

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
coalminer said:

This article goes into pretty good depth on what is going on in our country currently. At least now I know I am not the only one who believes that if Trump wins next year that we are on the road to being a dictatorship.
Click to expand...
We see a lot of talk about right-wing MAGA extremism in the mainstream media, but virtually nothing about left-wing Marxist extremism; it's as if it doesn't exist.

However, it's alive and thriving, and this article from Salon by Chauncey DeVega is a perfect example of who these people are and how they think. It's hard to believe anyone would take him and his radical drivel seriously.
 
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ATeam

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Pilgrim said:
Which attorney is this, that claims to know a judge has already decided three defendants are guilty before hearing their testimony and case for defense? Wonder if he can spell "Reversable Error"?
Click to expand...
This is a civil trial, not a criminal trial. In a criminal trial, the verdict is expressed as "guilty" or "not guilty." In a criminal trial, the penalties can include prison time. In this civil trial, the question is, is the defendant liable for the fraud alleged? And the penalties do not include prison time.

In this bench trial, in which there is no jury and the the judge is the finder of fact, Judge Engoron has already found Trump et al liable. That phase of the trial is complete. This is analogous to a guilty finding in a criminal trial where what follows is additional testimony to be considered for sentencing purposes.

With the determination of liability already made, the testimony now being offered (or compelled) is to provide evidence for the judge to consider as he determines the amount of disgorgement Trump et el must pay, because they have been found liable for fraud. The number will be high because they have been found liable for years and years of continuous, systematic and massive fraud.

"Disgorgement is a remedy requiring a party who profits from illegal or wrongful acts to give up any profits they made as a result of that illegal or wrongful conduct. The purpose of this remedy is to prevent unjust enrichment and make illegal conduct unprofitable." (Source)

AG James says in the lawsuit that $250 million disgorgement is the right number. Michael Cohen, who has some insight into this, says the number could be as high as $650 million. The number is what the judge will decide based on the evidence presented. Disgorgement is additional to a severe punishment already ordered; which is the cancellation of the business certificates of Trump's NY businesses, and the transfer of those businesses to a court-appointed receiver who will dissolve the businesses. Informally, this is being called a corporate death penalty.

When the businesses are dissolved, the proceeds will be used to pay the disgorgement penalty, and pay the creditors. Any cash left over will go to Trump et al, and any other stakeholders in these businesses.

Trump has already appealed some of Engoron's orders, and you can be sure he will appeal the rest. While we won't know until we know, I believe the orders will be upheld on appeal. DA James brings years of investigative work to this case and her case is strong, supported by a large trove of documentary evidence and expert testimony from key players in the Trump Organization. Trump has tried to quash this case in several ways and all of them have failed. That's because Trump actually committed these crimes and now he's caught.
 
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ATeam

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
The Real Donald Trump

With no cards left to play, and with the chickens of his fraud coming home to roost, Trump is crying like a baby, pleading like a beggar, and hurling insults like a loser.

thehill.com

Trump tells judge in fraud case to leave his children alone

Former President Trump wrote a social media post Wednesday railing against the judge overseeing his New York civil fraud case and told him to leave his children alone. He also argued that the…
thehill.com thehill.com
 
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C

coalminer

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
ATeam said:
When the businesses are dissolved, the proceeds will be used to pay the disgorgement penalty, and pay the creditors. Any cash left over will go to Trump et al, and any other stakeholders in these businesses.
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And what are the odds that anything is left once the assets are sold?
 
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Ragman

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
muttly said:
Just because someone has a smidgeon of knowledge about law because they took a test doesn’t mean they should be above criticism in a obvious appearance( at least) of bias, which many lawyers have pointed out.
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That would be acceptable if said criticism was about bias. It's wasn't and usually isn't.
 
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skyraider

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
Some info-- The Fifth Amendment was written by James Madison, (1751–1836), a Virginia lawyer who later became the fourth president of the United States. Madison wrote a number of the amendments in the Bill of Rights, which were ratified together in 1791 (see Introduction).there is tons of info on the 5th, but u can look it up when your bored.
 
ATeam

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
ATeam said:
I don't know what the Trump lawyers are advising their clients to do. To me, pleading the 5th seems like a wise thing for the Trumps to do. We'll soon see if it that makes sense to the Trumps.
Click to expand...
Don Jr. testified today and he responded to every question. He did not plead the 5th.
 
ATeam

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
coalminer said:
And what are the odds that anything is left once the assets are sold?
Click to expand...
That question is being asked by a lot of people who are suspicious of Trump's claims of great wealth and great business acumen. If Trump loses on appeal, his New York businesses will be dissolved. That process will take years but, one day, we will know, to the penny, how much these businesses were actually worth, compared to what Trump claims they are worth.
 
RLENT

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
ATeam said:
Don Jr. testified today and he responded to every question. He did not plead the 5th.
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Yeah ... Junior basically testified that he couldn't be guilty ... because he was too stoopid to know anything about finance.

Kinda gives some insight into the worth of attending Wharton like his Daddy.

:tearsofjoy:
 
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