The Trump Card...

[ATeam]

"... the Espionage Act is unconstitutionally vague, ..."

People have been successfully prosecuted under the Act before and if the "vague" argument was raised in those cases, it did not prevail. If the "unconstitutionally vague" argument has merit in the Trump case, you can be sure the Trump legal team will make it in court. We'll then find out if the Act is properly applied in this case.

 

[ATeam]

Trump's Public Defense

Of the recent indictment, Trump said yesterday, "The ridiculous and baseless indictment of me by the Biden administration's weaponized department of injustice will go down as among the most horrific abuses of power in the history of our country."

He offered several comments along those lines but no arguments that would be deemed to have merit in court. Trump is making political arguments against a legal case now being made against him. He has done that numerous times before. As we have seen, the political arguments have a Trump-favorable effect in the political arena, but they do not work in court.

An important difference this time is the charges are criminal charges with steep penalties. If loses this case in court, he faces serious jail time.

The legal case will take a year or more to work its way through court. We'll have to wait and see what legal arguments Trump makes in the legal arena.

 

[ATeam]

You do realize that every thing in that indictment is exactly what Biden has done...as both a senator and vice president.
And Biden's family is involved.

You do realize that the recent indictment charged Trump with crimes, do you not? Biden and family will not surrender for arrest and be arraigned in Miami on Tuesday. Trump will.

That's not to say Hillary should not have been charged or Biden should not be charged, or Biden will not be charged (he enjoys the same protections as president Trump did).

It is to say Trump is in real trouble here because of the crimes he is said to have committed. Saying others committed crimes too does not absolve Trump from what he did.

 

[ATeam]

Trump Has the Best-Possible Venue in Which to Fight DOJ

Some in this forum frequently say our legal system is unfairly skewed red or blue depending on the location of the court in which a case is being tried. While I don't buy fully into that view, I imagine those who do are jumping for joy about the FL Southern District court in which the Trump documents case will be heard.

First, Trump got lucky when the judge randomly assigned to the case was Aileen Cannon; a judge who has a proven record of issuing Trump-favorable rulings, even if the rulings lie outside the law. Based on past history, she'll go to great lengths, and even venture outside the law, to make sure Trump wins in court. Those rulings were overturned on appeal. The appeals court issued scathing rebukes of Judge Cannon, and forced her to dismiss the case she improperly accepted, and reverse the rulings she improperly made. Nevertheless, her pro-Trump bias was made clear.

It remains to be seen if DOJ will move to have her recused from the case, or if she will again demonstrate a pro-Trump bias, but this Trump-appointed judge is on the case now and that's good news for Trump.

The next thing to consider is the Southern District jury pool. This Politico article suggests Florida's red-state jurors are not going to make things easy for the prosecutors.

"Federal jurors in the state have a long history of acquitting elected officials of wrongdoing accused by the feds."

“We’re a red state and you’re getting red jurors. And they can’t see past red.”

While the case against Trump seems very strong and well supported by a mountain of direct evidence, the DOJ brought the case to this Miami court. They had the option of filing in a Washington DC court but chose Miami instead; apparently to avoid a time-consuming venue contest.

The Southern District court is perhaps the best-possible court for Trump (a short drive from his Florida home) with the best-possible pro-Trump judge presiding.

While I do not totally dismiss the red/blue court location argument, I believe in the justice system enough to assign little weight to it. To the extent the location argument is valid, Trump has fallen into the clover in this case. He has the best-possible judge in the best-possible district.

Even so, this case seems to me very strong and I believe the facts and the law, and the jury will produce a Trump conviction. The jurors will be intensely scrutinized in the jury selection process, and the judge will be kept in line by the watchful eye of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals.

 

[danthewolf00]

Trump Has the Best-Possible Venue in Which to Fight DOJ

Some in this forum frequently say our legal system is unfairly skewed red or blue depending on the location of the court in which a case is being tried. While I don't buy fully into that view, I imagine those who do are jumping for joy about the FL Southern District court in which the Trump documents case will be heard.

First, Trump got lucky when the judge randomly assigned to the case was Aileen Cannon; a judge who has a proven record of issuing Trump-favorable rulings, even if the rulings lie outside the law. Based on past history, she'll go to great lengths, and even venture outside the law, to make sure Trump wins in court. Those rulings were overturned on appeal. The appeals court issued scathing rebukes of Judge Cannon, and forced her to dismiss the case she improperly accepted, and reverse the rulings she improperly made. Nevertheless, her pro-Trump bias was made clear.

It remains to be seen if DOJ will move to have her recused from the case, or if she will again demonstrate a pro-Trump bias, but this Trump-appointed judge is on the case now and that's good news for Trump.

The next thing to consider is the Southern District jury pool. This Politico article suggests Florida's red-state jurors are not going to make things easy for the prosecutors.

"Federal jurors in the state have a long history of acquitting elected officials of wrongdoing accused by the feds."

“We’re a red state and you’re getting red jurors. And they can’t see past red.”

While the case against Trump seems very strong and well supported by a mountain of direct evidence, the DOJ brought the case to this Miami court. They had the option of filing in a Washington DC court but chose Miami instead; apparently to avoid a time-consuming venue contest.

The Southern District court is perhaps the best-possible court for Trump (a short drive from his Florida home) with the best-possible pro-Trump judge presiding.

While I do not totally dismiss the red/blue court location argument, I believe in the justice system enough to assign little weight to it. To the extent the location argument is valid, Trump has fallen into the clover in this case. He has the best-possible judge in the best-possible district.

Even so, this case seems to me very strong and I believe the facts and the law, and the jury will produce a Trump conviction. The jurors will be intensely scrutinized in the jury selection process, and the judge will be kept in line by the watchful eye of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals.

Hard to have a honest judge when the liberal judge above her will just over rule her verdict if it doesn't keep trump out of the race.

 

[ATeam]

Hard to have a honest judge when the liberal judge above her will just over rule her verdict if it doesn't keep trump out of the race.

The appeals court panel of 3 judges that reversed Cannon's rulings with scathing rebukes included two Republican, Trump-appointed judges. There was nothing liberal about them. They ruled on the law.

 

[danthewolf00]

The Biden administration:
Is transparent at all.
Lies or withholds information that would help someone they are prosecuting.
Prosecut the leader of the opposition party.
Spend our tax money on illegal aliens.
Has a double standard law system.
And you think this is ok and your still living in America.

 

[muttly]

The judge should throw this case out.

 

[danthewolf00]

The judge should throw this case out.

This judge is just going to be over ruled anyways.....they want trump in jail.

 

[ATeam]

Former US Attorney General Bill Barr on FOX News

"If even half of it is true, then he's toast. I mean, it's a very detailed indictment, and it's very, very damning. This idea of presenting Trump as a victim here -- a victim of a witch hunt -- is ridiculous."

 

[ATeam]

....they want trump in jail.

That's certainly true of the prosecutors. Their investigation revealed crimes had been committed and found evidence to prove it. So, yes, absolutely. They want Trump in jail.

The more important question will be, does the red-state jury want Trump in jail?

 

[ATeam]

Trump Delay Tactics, The Rocket Docket, and The Judge

This article explains the FL Southern District's rocket docket, in which a trial date is usually set within 70 days of an indictment. That would be lightening speed for criminal defendant Trump whose favorite legal tactic is delay. The pro-Trump judge presiding in this case is also a variable. That too is discussed in the article. It's an interesting read.

On Tuesday, when Trump is arrested and arraigned, I'll be watching closely to see how Judge Cannon acts. Will she adhere to the rocket docket practices of federal judges in the Southern District, or will she side with Trump and give him unreasonable opportunities for delay? As the article states, some delays are expected and are reasonable. I would be very surprised to see a trial begin in less than three months. But delays due to frivolous claims made by Trump would be unreasonable and should not occur.

So far, the DOJ has not moved for Judge Cannon's recusal. My guess is that, to avoid delays, they won't seek to have her removed from the case unless she acts in an obviously Trump-biased way.

Regarding Cannon herself, who knows? She might have learned her lesson when her rulings and professional reputation were brutally excoriated by two Trump-appointed judges and one non-Trump appointee Appeals court panel. She has not recused herself. Maybe she sees this as an opportunity to redeem herself by being super-fair; giving Trump every consideration he is entitled to in this trial, but nothing more.

We shall see.

 

[danthewolf00]

Look I would agree with you that trump could be guilty if the Democrats weren't trying so hard to put him in jail before the 2024 election.
You have.......
The Russian collusion
The Georgia call
The 2020 election vote audit blocked
January 6th
The so called rape case just like judge Kavanaugh.....new york had to change the statute of limitations for one year.
The stormy Danielle's case also out of new York city.
When you have to change the laws to convict someone of a crime that happened over 7 years ago....and is past the states statute of limitations it's not about the law it's about getting the other guy before they get yours.
And biden took classified documents as both senator and vice president and stored them in unsecured locations where anyone can get at them.
The difference is
They raided trump and blocked his lawyers but let bidens lawyers go through the classified documents and then let the fbi in. That is a huge double standard and it shows anyone with common sense that it's not right.

 

[danthewolf00]

And that doesn't include the 2 impeachments they tried to do.
Which is why Biden will not be impeached because the Democrats have control of the Senate.

 

[ATeam]

And that doesn't include the 2 impeachments they tried to do.
Which is why Biden will not be impeached because the Democrats have control of the Senate.

Same reason Trump was not convicted (convicted is proper word, not impeached). Republicans then controlled the Senate. Trump was twice impeached by the Democratic controlled house. The current Republican-controlled House has not impeached Biden.

 

[ATeam]

Look I would agree with you that trump could be guilty if the Democrats weren't trying so hard to put him in jail before the 2024 election.

I invite you to consider the possibility that Trump might be guilty because he actually did the criminal acts alleged in the indictment. And I suggest you prepare yourself for the possibility that a red-state jury may find him guilty and a Trump-appointed judge may sentence him to jail; not because the Democrats came after him once again, but because Trump actually committed the crimes and -- incredibly stupidly -- tried to keep the documents in question when he could have returned them instead, and thereby avoided all charges.

 

[Pilgrim]

Hopefully the RNC and GOP leaders are keeping their eyes on the prize for 2024 and not getting entangled in the legal wrangling of the Trump case, which could drag out for years. Their prime directive is to win the presidential election in '24 by nominating the best possible candidate to run against Biden. The best candidate may not be Trump any more, regardless of his guilt or innocence.

There are 37 counts in this indictment, many with 10-20 yr prison sentences. The Feds only need a guilty verdict on one of them to take him out of the race. Does the party want to go forward with a candidate in this tenuous situation, regardless of his position in the polls? Surely they're discussing this behind closed doors.

Trump says he'll never quit, but he may be forced out by the party elders and major donors, similar to the way Nixon was forced to resign. The last thing the GOP needs is the '24 race is a nominee that's facing a strong possibility of conviction on at least one of those 37 counts.

There are several other candidates right now that could easily defeat Biden in '24. A strong argument could be made for removing the Trump distraction before the first Republican debate in August.

 

[danthewolf00]

Same reason Trump was not convicted (convicted is proper word, not impeached). Republicans then controlled the Senate. Trump was twice impeached by the Democratic controlled house. The current Republican-controlled House has not impeached Biden.

Has not yet impeached biden.......the truth is coming out on his crimes and its alot worse than trumps

 

[ATeam]

Hopefully the RNC and GOP leaders are keeping their eyes on the prize for 2024 and not getting entangled in the legal wrangling of the Trump case, which could drag out for years. Their prime directive is to win the presidential election in '24 by nominating the best possible candidate to run against Biden. The best candidate may not be Trump any more, regardless of his guilt or innocence.

Once upon a time, you may have been correct about the prime directive of the GOP leaders and RNC. But it seems Trump has totally taken over the Republican Party. In the last convention, they did not even adopt a platform. They instead said, they'll support what Trump wants to support. The GOP has long ago ceased to function as a political party with the nation's best interests first in mind. The GOP today is a Trump cult that has successfully appropriated the party machinery and is now using it to further Trump's interests

There are 37 counts in this indictment, many with 10-20 yr prison sentences. The Feds only need a guilty verdict on one of them to take him out of the race. Does the party want to go forward with a candidate in this tenuous situation, regardless of his position in the polls? Surely they're discussing this behind closed doors.

Party members may be discussing that. But I suspect the party leaders behind closed doors are plotting to do one thing; help Trump become the authoritarian dictator of the United States.

Trump says he'll never quit, but he may be forced out by the party elders and major donors, similar to the way Nixon was forced to resign. The last thing the GOP needs is the '24 race is a nominee that's facing a strong possibility of conviction on at least one of those 37 counts.

True, but the party leaders are blind to that.

There are several other candidates right now that could easily defeat Biden in '24. A strong argument could be made for removing the Trump distraction before the first Republican debate in August.

The sad thing is, no one is making that argument such that it is finding traction in GOP leadership circles or in the base. For the majority, it's Trump first, Trump always, Trump forever. Within the GOP, the more legal trouble Trump finds himself in, the higher his poll numbers go.

That makes no sense in a rational world. But in a cult, it is the way of things.

Two additional indictments are expected (GA and Jan 6). With four cases being heard in four different jurisdictions, the Trump fever may one day break, but it shows no sign of breaking today.

 

[danthewolf00]

Funny I am not hearing much about Biden and his own little crime of the very same thing trump has done......classified documents from as far back as a senator....not even crickets.