The Trump Card...

[Pilgrim]

Biden's Delaware home was recently searched by the FBI. danthewolf00 is correct. Additional documents were found.

That means both Biden's and Trump's home have been searched by the FBI. The two notable differences are:

1. Biden requested the search and gave permission. No search warrant was needed. Trump made no such request and a warrant was obtained and executed.
2. Biden is the president when the search happened. Trump was a former president when his home was searched.

Justice Department investigators find 6 more items marked classified in search of Biden's Delaware home, attorney says

Bob Bauer, a personal attorney for Mr. Biden, said the search lasted about 13 hours.

www.cbsnews.com

A third notable difference is that Biden's personal lawyers and associates had since at least Nov 2nd to search and sanitize his personal residences, beach house, and UPenn offices, not to mention wherever Hunter hangs his pants these days. So the idea that Biden's invitation and permission (as if they needed that) for the FBI to search his freshly tidied-up domicile hardly qualifies as a display of innocence and transparency. What's surprising is that they admitted to finding anything at all, unless somebody with inside knowledge leaked it to the press.

Not to worry, since it was Biden's lawyers doing the initial searches, whatever they found is all covered by attorney-client privilege. He also is secure in the convenient truths that a sitting POTUS won't be indicted and a Democrat Senate won't vote to remove him from office if he's impeached. No wonder he has "no regrets".

 

[muttly]

You can’t indict a sitting President. That would be Joe’s saving grace being President. But this compromised and partisan DOJ wouldn’t indict him anyway even if they 25th him before his 1st term is up because it’s a 2 tier system.

 

[muttly]

A third notable difference is that Biden's personal lawyers and associates had since at least Nov 2nd to search and sanitize his personal residences, beach house, and UPenn offices, not to mention wherever Hunter hangs his pants these days. So the idea that Biden's invitation and permission (as if they needed that) for the FBI to search his freshly tidied-up domicile hardly qualifies as a display of innocence and transparency. What's surprising is that they admitted to finding anything at all, unless somebody with inside knowledge leaked it to the press.

Not to worry, since it was Biden's lawyers doing the initial searches, whatever they found is all covered by attorney-client privilege. He also is secure in the convenient truths that a sitting POTUS won't be indicted and a Democrat Senate won't vote to remove him from office if he's impeached. No wonder he has "no regrets".

The DOJ let Joe's lawyers do all that but fought Trump tooth and nail in court to not even have a special master look at the documents seized from Trump’s residence. Double standard much?

 

[ATeam]

Two Juries Convict More Trump Supporters of Jan. 6 Crimes

Man who propped feet on Pelosi desk guilty in Jan. 6 case

An Arkansas man who propped his feet up on a desk in then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office during the U.S.

apnews.com

Four Oath Keepers convicted of Jan. 6 seditious conspiracy

Four members of the Oath Keepers have been convicted of seditious conspiracy in the Jan. 6, 2021, Capitol attack in the second major trial involving far-right extremists accused of plotting to forcibly keep President Donald Trump in power.

apnews.com

 

[ATeam]

A third notable difference is that Biden's personal lawyers and associates had since at least Nov 2nd to search and sanitize his personal residences, beach house, and UPenn offices, not to mention wherever Hunter hangs his pants these days.

I expected something like that to be brought up. The notable differences I mentioned are easily verifiable. The difference you bring up is an assumption or assertion. One thing I have learned how to do over the years is not make assumptions that may be without grounds and then get mad about those assumptions, as if they were true in the real world.

Yes, it is possible that Biden's lawyers searched and sanitized as you suggest. But it's equally possible they did not. So I'm not going to assume that either way. The truth generally comes out over time. I'm content to wait, instead of getting worked up about something that may or may not be true.

 

[danthewolf00]

I expected something like that to be brought up. The notable differences I mentioned are easily verifiable. The difference you bring up is an assumption or assertion. One thing I have learned how to do over the years is not make assumptions that may be without grounds and then get mad about those assumptions, as if they were true in the real world.

Yes, it is possible that Biden's lawyers searched and sanitized as you suggest. But it's equally possible they did not. So I'm not going to assume that either way. The truth generally comes out over time. I'm content to wait, instead of getting worked up about something that may or may not be true.

Those lawyers do not have the security clearance to even touch those files.....

 

[Pilgrim]

I expected something like that to be brought up. The notable differences I mentioned are easily verifiable. The difference you bring up is an assumption or assertion.

It is neither. The point I made clearly implies the strong possibility, if not probability that Biden's place was sanitized by his lawyers since the undeniable fact is that they were there in the first place, obviously looking at documents. That has been verified by multiple sources, so why were they there?

1. Biden requested the search and gave permission. No search warrant was needed. Trump made no such request and a warrant was obtained and executed.

What's omitted from the above is that Trump had been in negotiations with the Feds about his documents and they had already been to Mar-a-Lago and had been in the very room where they were secured. They actually suggested he consider adding an additional lock to the room. There was no need for him to make such a request to the DOJ since they had already been there and negotiations were ongoing. On the other hand, they had not previously been to any of Biden's digs.

 

[ATeam]

It is neither. The point I made clearly implies the strong possibility, if not probability

Possibilities and probabilities are not developed facts. They speak to something that may or may not happen. And the only way to make such things real as if they are developed facts is with a leap of faith or with flawed logic. I have no doubt that you believe Biden is capable of the sanitizing actions you suggest. But your belief does not make it so.

I also have no doubt that the Trump Organization is guilty of certain tax-fraud crimes. But I don't need to take a leap of faith to make that so. In fact, the Trump Organization was found guilty in court of those crimes.

that Biden's place was sanitized by his lawyers since the undeniable fact is that they were there in the first place, obviously looking at documents. That has been verified by multiple sources, so why were they there?

I don't know why they were there. It may be (and this is speculation) that they were being newly diligent about document handling given the emphasis of such things that has recently come to light. And it may be that when the documents were found by Biden's attorney's, they did exactly what they said they did; namely, do the right thing, notify the authorities and quickly return the documents.

To further speculate, my reasoning must be true, right? I mean, if their intent was to sanitize a site and protect Biden from embarrassing revelations, why would they have turned in anything at all? The government did not know the documents were missing and/or mishandled. If their purpose was to sanitize, as you suggest, it suggests they would not have come forward at all.

What's omitted from the above is that Trump had been in negotiations with the Feds about his documents and they had already been to Mar-a-Lago and had been in the very room where they were secured. They actually suggested he consider adding an additional lock to the room. There was no need for him to make such a request to the DOJ since they had already been there and negotiations were ongoing.

That's Trump's account. A conflicting narrative was presented in court, and that court found probable cause to issue a search warrant. Which account is true? I'd say the one that produced the evidence the search produced. Real evidence, not speculative ideas.

On the other hand, they had not previously been to any of Biden's digs.

That is correct.
BTW, I don't like Biden having classified documents at his home and office any more than I like Trump having them. Both are serious matters that should be prosecuted as the facts and law dictates in each case.

 

[danthewolf00]

Biden has committed multiple crimes.
First as a senator.....he took classified documents home after he quit as a senator.
Second as a vice president he took classified documents that he was never ever to have as vice president do to security clearances.
He kept classified documents in unsecured locations that were not in any kind of scif.
Third he let his lawyers handle classified documents without a security clearance.
But trump got raided.

 

[ATeam]

Biden has committed multiple crimes.
First as a senator.....he took classified documents home after he quit as a senator.
Second as a vice president he took classified documents that he was never ever to have as vice president do to security clearances.
He kept classified documents in unsecured locations that were not in any kind of scif.
Third he let his lawyers handle classified documents without a security clearance.
But trump got raided.

It is possible, but not yet proven true in court. That's exactly why DOJ is not only investigating this but has assigned a special prosecutor to do so.

 

[danthewolf00]

It is possible, but not yet proven true in court. That's exactly why DOJ is not only investigating this but has assigned a special prosecutor to do so.

Taking classified documents without security clearances is a very bad crime....there is no misdemeanor crime here you can't plea deal it down with treason.

 

[coalminer]

MSN

Looks like this is more normal than what we are being led to believe....

 

[ATeam]

Sound Familiar?

"A lawyer for former Vice President Mike Pence discovered about a dozen documents marked as classified at Pence’s Indiana home last week, and he has turned those classified records over to the FBI, ..." (Source)

We can only surmise that the Pence home has been carefully sanitized and the public lie was carefully crafted before Pence's people came forward with the info, right? There is no way possible that Pence can be honest and simply admit what happened and what was done about it, right? Under no circumstances can we give him the benefit of the doubt, right? We can't do that because ... well, because he's a Republican, right?

If not that, then maybe this (thank you danthewolf00):

"Pence has committed multiple crimes. ... as a vice president he took classified documents that he was never ever to have as vice president do to security clearances. He kept classified documents in unsecured locations that were not in any kind of scif. ... he let his lawyers handle classified documents without a security clearance."

 

[coalminer]

Donald Trump pulls absolutely insane move at golf tournament

Well I guess he can always join the PGA and rule the golf world.......

 

[muttly]

MSN

Looks like this is more normal than what we are being led to believe....

And what entities in the public led you to believe that?

 

[coalminer]

And what entities in the public led you to believe that?

Our government sucks at maintaining secrets.....

 

[Pilgrim]

Possibilities and probabilities are not developed facts.

I never said they were.

They speak to something that may or may not happen. And the only way to make such things real as if they are developed facts is with a leap of faith or with flawed logic. I have no doubt that you believe Biden is capable of the sanitizing actions you suggest. But your belief does not make it so.

I implied a strong likelihood. But your leap of faith that I am representing them as facts is in itself, flawed logic and a misrepresentation of what I said.

I also have no doubt that the Trump Organization is guilty of certain tax-fraud crimes. But I don't need to take a leap of faith to make that so. In fact, the Trump Organization was found guilty in court of those crimes.

This involved a corporation, not Trump himself.

I don't know why they were there.

Neither does anyone else, and therein lies the problem.

That's Trump's account. A conflicting narrative was presented in court, and that court found probable cause to issue a search warrant. Which account is true? I'd say the one that produced the evidence the search produced. Real evidence, not speculative ideas.

The DOJ can find probable cause for anything they want - especially this DOJ. And there is no question that there were negotiations with the DOJ and NARA about the documents at Mar-a-Lago which BTW, were kept in a secure room in a house protected by the Secret Service. Their evidence - of what? They found documents they already knew were there, which were from Trump's four years as POTUS, and had an established chain of custody. Funny we haven't heard anything lately about results from that raid. Here's some speculation: no charges will be brought against Trump as a result of the Mar-a-Lago raid.

 

[muttly]

 

[coalminer]

View attachment 22211

Too bad he didnt jump in a year ago when his worshippers were chanting "hang Mike Pence"

 

[Turtle]

And what entities in the public led you to believe that?

Well, I've said it in this thread at least twice. And was challenged on it like I was making it up. Every president since Truman and every vice president since Barkley has taken classified documents with them to another place. The National Archives and the DOJ have historically patiently waited months and years for the return of the documents. I said it before and I'll say it again: nothing should be done over this to Trump, Biden, Hillary, or Pence.

And Coalminer touched on it earlier with a piece from USA Today about how careless (with regard to strictly following rules of handling classified documents) government officials can be. It's almost like they're as careless with classified documents as they are with taxpayer dollars. <snort> With almost no exceptions, the federal government is really bad at everything they do. They make everything they touch worse. Arguably roads and the military are the exceptions, and the amount of taxpayer waste within the military makes that one a little iffy.

Coalminer also touched on how things are overclassified. I used to have an aunt who worked for the CIA, still have two cousins that are still there. They talked often about how many things get overclassified (Confidential gets classified as Secret or Top Secret for no reason), or things get classified in the first place for no reason. Most documents generated by the Intelligence Community are knee-jerk classified as Secret as a matter of course, even if it's a memo about lunch, simply because the Intelligence Community think their sh*t don't stink. Documents that deal with "sources and methods" and National Security are to always be classified, and undergo item-by-item review before being automatically declassified (generally after 25 years). Embarrassing things or illegal things are explicitly not to be classified, yet they are classified every day.

I don't know for sure, but I'd be willing to bet real money that documents dealing with the Biden Influence Peddling Capades are classified, or at least were classified until they got misplaced somewhere between the document shredder and the incinerator.