The Trump Card...

[coalminer]

Until it was reported in the news last night, I did not know the IRS had a longstanding policy that requires the tax returns of sitting presidents to be audited every year. It seems that requirement was improperly blocked or lifted for Trump's benefit by Trump's Commissioner of Revenue.

There again, you don't have to be a CPA to know that is wrong. And that is a lick on the IRS commissioner and perhaps a Trump abuse of power that corrupts the process for Trump's benefit. And there again, the remedy is not to release Trump's tax returns to the public. It is to refer the matter to DOJ for investigation and possible prosecution.

It would have been appropriate for the House to investigate the matter themselves and they likely would have done so had they known of the breach. While the House was entitled by law to received these returns, Trump successfully delayed that for years with his usual use of the courts to keep such things from happening. Ultimately he failed and the day will come when Trump and/or his IRS commissioner will have to answer for this particular abuse of power.

And thats the biggest problem for me, the fact that he wasnt audited like he should have been while he was president. I understand why that is the policy, to make sure the president is not using his position to line his own pockets.

After seeing his income/loss numbers for the years in question, im surprised he didnt lose more in 2020 than he did.

 

[ATeam]

After seeing his income/loss numbers for the years in question, im surprised he didnt lose more in 2020 than he did.

Where did you see the numbers?

 

[ATeam]

And thats the biggest problem for me, the fact that he wasnt audited like he should have been while he was president. I understand why that is the policy, to make sure the president is not using his position to line his own pockets.

It's a problem for me too. It appears Trump tried to or succeeded in corrupting the IRS for his own personal benefit. If this turns out to be true, it will be yet another abuse of power that comes to light and yet another crime (tax fraud) to be prosecuted. The man is a serial criminal.

 

[coalminer]

Where did you see the numbers?

Infographic: The Ups and Downs of Donald Trump's Income

This chart shows income declared and income tax paid on Donald Trump's personal tax returns during his presidency (in U.S. dollars).

www.statista.com

I cant find the exact one I saw, but this chart shows the same numbers.

 

[Pilgrim]

And thats the biggest problem for me, the fact that he wasnt audited like he should have been while he was president. I understand why that is the policy, to make sure the president is not using his position to line his own pockets.

As previously discussed, other than Jimmy Carter there hasn't been a POTUS in our lifetimes that hasn't used the position to line his own pockets. The Clintons especially and Obamas come to mind, along with the current occupant of the White House who was peddling influence when he was Obama's VP, before that as a Senator. The IRS has always turned a blind eye to the finances of scores of politicians from both sides of the isle, while at times harassing certain segments of private citizens. Remember Lois Lerner?

 

[Pilgrim]

It's a problem for me too. It appears Trump tried to or succeeded in corrupting the IRS for his own personal benefit. If this turns out to be true, it will be yet another abuse of power that comes to light and yet another crime (tax fraud) to be prosecuted.

"If this turns out to be true..." Seems like there's always this caveat when it comes to gratuitous assertions, and in Trump's case so far they never seem to be true - just like the Russia collusion hoax that was promoted for years as fact and guaranteed to sink him.

The man is a serial criminal.

Really? Of what crimes has he been convicted?

 

[ATeam]

Jan. 6 Committee Releases its Final Report

With an executive summary of 165 pages and a report of 154 pages and an 845 page report, I won't be sitting down to read them cover to cover. It will take the reporters and commentators some time to go through it all to do their thing. Like most Americans who are interested, I'll be relying on them to tell me what the report says. Once I know that, I'll decide for myself what the report means.

For me, the two things that come immediately to mind are:

1. This is a fine body of work produced by the committee for the benefit of the American people today and for history forever. A ton of work was done to develop information and evidence, and to make that public. That would not have been done without the bipartisan efforts of the committee and its staff. While some are making much of the fact that there were only two Republicans on the committee, it is worth noting that most Republicans boycotted the committee when it was being formed and passed up the chance to serve on it.

2. The vast majority of testimony taken by the committee was given by Republicans who were directly involved in the events and actions relating to the Jan 6 insurrection and Trump's illegal attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 election. This was not a committee of Democrats who made up a story and published it as a report. It is a a bipartisan committee who conducted a proper investigation, published its findings, made its recommendations, and referred certain people, including Trump himself, to the Department of Justice for further investigation and prosecution.

 

[ATeam]

"If this turns out to be true..." Seems like there's always this caveat when it comes to gratuitous assertions, and in Trump's case so far they never seem to be true - just like the Russia collusion hoax that was promoted for years as fact and guaranteed to sink him.

You are exactly right. But in this particular case, it is not a gratuitous assertion. It is actually true that under Trump's IRS commissioner, Trump's tax returns were not audited as they were legally required to have been.

 

[ATeam]

Really? Of what crimes has he been convicted?

Trump himself has not been convicted of any crime yet. But with the investigations now underway, I expect he will be.

Trump's businesses and other entities that are directly controlled by Trump have been found to be "guilty" of various crimes. "Guilty" is in quotes because these are civil cases that say crimes are committed but the cases are settled or found in favor of the plantiffs. They do not produce guilty verdict. But to me, it's a crime just the same and, give the close control Trump is said to have over his businesses, that qualifies him as a serial criminal.

I'm not going to take a lot of time to dig up and list the numerous lawsuits in which Trump himself and/or Trump entities are said to have committed crimes. Off the top of my head, the list includes:

Trump Organization found guilty of 17 tax-fraud counts in a criminal proceeding recently concluded in NY.
Trump University: fraud
Trump Foundation, ordered to shut down and sanctions imposed on Trump and Trump operatives.
Trump Inauguration Committee: misuse of assets. Case settled by Trump (a man who boasts of not settling) before it proceeded further.

Also consider the testimony of former Trump Attorney Cohen who lays out pretty clear the crimes he says Trump committed.

There are those who claim none of this was Trump but errant Trump operatives. That's BS and any objective observer knows it. You don't get a pattern like this without the head of these organizations running them in criminal ways.

 

[Pilgrim]

You are exactly right. But in this particular case, it is not a gratuitous assertion. It is actually true that under Trump's IRS commissioner, Trump's tax returns were not audited as they were legally required to have been.

First of all, "Trump's IRS commissioner" also held that position under Obama so he wasn't a hand-picked Trump acolyte. Secondly, this audit policy was just that - an IRS policy that they didn't enforce, not codified law. It's true that Trump didn't release his returns, but the IRS could've demanded them anyway if they had wanted to enforce their policy. Regardless, the House just passed legislation to require presidential tax audits. This whole tax thing isn't as clear-cut as the talking heads would have us believe.

"In an application of the IRS policy on mandatory presidential audits, well-trained agents, forensic experts, tax attorneys and others would be required to oversee a presidential audit as complicated as Trump’s, which included hundreds of businesses, properties and complex business interests."

IRS mandatory presidential audit policy goes under spotlight - Breitbart

An IRS policy governing the audits of tax returns filed by U.S. presidents is under new scrutiny IRS mandatory presidential audit policy goes under

www.breitbart.com

 

[Pilgrim]

Trump himself has not been convicted of any crime yet.

So in the eyes of the law, he's not a criminal.

 

[ATeam]

First of all, "Trump's IRS commissioner" also held that position under Obama so he wasn't a hand-picked Trump acolyte.

That's an interesting fact but it remains fundamentally wrong that Trump's taxes were not audited under the IRS policy that requires it, especially when previous presidents have been so audited.

I have not heard about anything put in motion on this but I expect the US Senate will make inquiries to the IRS about this if not launch a full-fledged investigation to bring the facts to light. Given McConnell's recent remarks about a "diminished" Trump, and his vow to never let Trump degrade Republican election results again, I expect little opposition from the Republican senators to such a investigation.

 

[ATeam]

So in the eyes of the law, he's not a criminal.

I own a business. It is a corporation. I control the corporation. The corporation does not cheat on its taxes because I do not permit that. I require tax compliance.

But, hypothetically, if I ran my corporation like Trump runs the Trump Organization, and I direct the people working for me to commit tax fraud, and I participate with them in committing tax fraud, would I be a criminal? And if my corporation, but not me personally, was taken to court and found guilty of 17 tax fraud crimes, would I be a criminal?

 

[Pilgrim]

I own a business. It is a corporation. I control the corporation. The corporation does not cheat on its taxes because I do not permit that. I require tax compliance.

But, hypothetically, if I ran my corporation like Trump runs the Trump Organization, and I direct the people working for me to commit tax fraud, and I participate with them in committing tax fraud, would I be a criminal? And if my corporation, but not me personally, was taken to court and found guilty of 17 tax fraud crimes, would I be a criminal?

No. Besides, we don't know that Trump directed anyone to commit tax fraud. Minimizing taxes paid - personal or corporate - is not a crime.

 

[Pilgrim]

That's an interesting fact but it remains fundamentally wrong that Trump's taxes were not audited under the IRS policy that requires it, especially when previous presidents have been so audited.

I have not heard about anything put in motion on this but I expect the US Senate will make inquiries to the IRS about this if not launch a full-fledged investigation to bring the facts to light. Given McConnell's recent remarks about a "diminished" Trump, and his vow to never let Trump degrade Republican election results again, I expect little opposition from the Republican senators to such a investigation.

"The Presidential Tax Filings and Audit Transparency Act, which might soon bear the informal moniker of "The Trump Rule," passed largely along party lines (222-201)."

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/trump-taxes-irs/2022/12/22/id/1101628/

 

[ATeam]

Senate GOP rebukes Trump With Electoral Count Act

Already, we're seeing positive impacts coming from the Jan 6 Committee's work.

"Eighteen Senate Republicans rebuked former President Trump this week by voting to clarify that the vice president does not have the power to overturn a presidential election as Trump pressured then-Vice President Mike Pence to do on Jan. 6, 2021.

"And several other Republicans, who didn’t vote for the spending package, which included the electoral count reforms, such as Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), previously expressed support for changes to the law to make it tougher to object to the Electoral College’s vote.

GOP senators ignored Trump’s argument posted on Truth Social, his social media platform, that the 1887 Electoral Count Act should be left the way it is 'in case of Fraud.'" (Source)

 

[ATeam]

"The Presidential Tax Filings and Audit Transparency Act, which might soon bear the informal moniker of "The Trump Rule," passed largely along party lines (222-201)."

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/trump-taxes-irs/2022/12/22/id/1101628/

Another positive impact coming from the Jan 6 Committee's work.

 

[ATeam]

No. Besides, we don't know that Trump directed anyone to commit tax fraud.

I think we know exactly that. The Trump Organization was recently convicted of 17 tax CRIMES. In the trial, lawyers for the defense went to great lengths to make the case that the crime's were not committed at Trump's direction and direct involvement.

They did everything they could to put 100% of the blame on the Trump Organization CFO Allen Weisselberg. The Jury did not buy it. They instead took into account the evidence that showed Trump's direct involvement (including checks signed by Trump) and found the company, which is led by Trump, guilty.

Trump himself was not charged but I would not be surprised to see him charged in the future for these crimes. Emboldened by the sweeping victory they won, and the irrefutable evidence that was developed, Manhattan prosecutors may charge Trump himself, just like they previously charged and convicted Wesselberg himself.

 

[ATeam]

Minimizing taxes paid - personal or corporate - is not a crime.

You are correct. Minimizing taxes paid is not a crime. All wise business people claim the tax deductions allowed by law.

But it is a crime, punishable by serious penalties, to present false numbers on your tax return or omit numbers from your tax return that enable the taxpayer to claim false deductions. That is called tax fraud and it is exactly the crime the Trump Organization was convicted of.

Evidence brought to light in that trial, and information on the Trump returns that will soon be publicly released, may lead to other charges too. Insurance fraud is a crime. Bank fraud is a crime. There is reason to believe Trump committed both crimes.

In other words, the dude is screwed. All the secrets he tried to keep are coming out and the crimes he tried to hide by keeping his secrets are coming to light.

 

[ATeam]

More Truth Comes Out. Per Hannity, Carlson and Others; The Big Lie is Indeed a Lie

Sean Hannity admits in deposition he didn’t believe Trump voter fraud claims

Fox News host Sean Hannity admitted under oath that he “did not believe” for “one second” there was mass voter fraud in the 2020 election. Hannity’s testimony was incl…

thehill.com

If you believe the 2020 election victory was stolen from Trump, at what point did you come to believe it? Did you take Trump at his word? Did you come to believe it after you were repeatedly lied to by Hannity, Carlson and others you trusted? Did you fall into line with your Twitter and Facebook contacts because it felt right?

At some point, you heard for the first time that the election was stolen. At that moment, or at a subsequent point, you allowed yourself to believe that. Now, with the facts clearly out, and with former election liars now coming clean because they are placed under oath, only the intentionally ignorant, or those who see some political or financial advantage in doing so, cling to the lie. But if you are an ordinary person with no self-serving political agenda and no way to financially profit from the lie, do you still believe it? If so, how did you get duped? How did you get sucked in and played?

This is an important question. The election was not stolen. Don't take my word for it. Listen to Sean Hannity under oath! He “did not believe” for “one second” there was mass voter fraud in the 2020 election.

If you believe otherwise, you were duped. You were played. What will you do going forward so you'll not be duped and played again?