The Tea Party Strikes Again.

[Turtle]

Does Fox News get the story wrong sometimes? Sure, but no more or less than other news channels.

Not really. First, most news media isn't even left-of-center and the stories don't come from a left-of-center ideology. Most news media makes the attempt at objective reporting of the facts, so they are mostly centrist in their reporting. Granted, sure, yeah, their reporting isn't conservative, so that makes them leftist liberals in the eyes of conservatives (it's the whole "if you're not with us you are against us" mentality). Generally speaking, the liberal media tends to let the facts guide the story while conservative media, generally speaking, lets the agenda drive the facts. Allowing the agenda to dictate the facts is fundamentally flawed if you want to get the story right and objectively relay the story. There are certainly examples of leftist media allowing their agenda to drive the facts, but they aren't the mainstream media, despite the claims of conservatives. Conservatives make that assertion simply because the mainstream media isn't conservative, so thus the MSM is leftist with an agenda in their coverage. But when you allow the agenda to drive the facts of reporting, you will inexorably set yourself up to get the story wrong more often than not, which is what Fox News does on a regular basis. They do it every time they report opinion as fact as a means of influencing its viewers, and reporting opinion as fact is the bread and butter of Fox News. So to state Fox News gets it wrong no more or no less than other news channels is simply not accurate. Agenda-driven reporting will always be less accurate than fact-driven reporting.

Fox News gets singled out, because they are, as some people like to cherish, the most watched news source, and the most trusted source for news, and because they are both fair and balanced. The facts, however, show Fox News to be none of the above. 0-4

 

[muttly]

Not really. First, most news media isn't even left-of-center and the stories don't come from a left-of-center ideology. Most news media makes the attempt at objective reporting of the facts, so they are mostly centrist in their reporting. Granted, sure, yeah, their reporting isn't conservative, so that makes them leftist liberals in the eyes of conservatives (it's the whole "if you're not with us you are against us" mentality). Generally speaking, the liberal media tends to let the facts guide the story while conservative media, generally speaking, lets the agenda drive the facts. Allowing the agenda to dictate the facts is fundamentally flawed if you want to get the story right and objectively relay the story. There are certainly examples of leftist media allowing their agenda to drive the facts, but they aren't the mainstream media, despite the claims of conservatives. Conservatives make that assertion simply because the mainstream media isn't conservative, so thus the MSM is leftist with an agenda in their coverage. But when you allow the agenda to drive the facts of reporting, you will inexorably set yourself up to get the story wrong more often than not, which is what Fox News does on a regular basis. They do it every time they report opinion as fact as a means of influencing its viewers, and reporting opinion as fact is the bread and butter of Fox News. So to state Fox News gets it wrong no more or no less than other news channels is simply not accurate. Agenda-driven reporting will always be less accurate than fact-driven reporting.

Fox News gets singled out, because they are, as some people like to cherish, the most watched news source, and the most trusted source for news, and because they are both fair and balanced. The facts, however, show Fox News to be none of the above. 0-4

You have no proof that this is the case. Its just your opinion and misguided opinions of conservatives.
Turtle wrote:
'Like I said, the MSM, while liberal, at least strives for objective reporting, whereas the conservative media makes no effort whatsoever at objectivity.'
Again, no proof of this. Just your opinion and your blanket statement of conservatives. You must also think there isn't a us versus them attitude that permeates the news regarding liberals? No that doesn't happen. They are pure as the driven snow.

 

[Turtle]

Right, no one is saying that news outlets including Fox get it wrong sometimes. What some are saying is Fox News gets it wrong every time.

Who says that? I don't know anyone who says that. Fox News doesn't get it wrong every time. They're actually pretty accurate when the report non-political stories that don't have a political side to them. But, as soon as a story crops up that is able to have a partisan side to it, there ya go.

That would be wrong for 18 years, 365 days a year wrong every time. So wrong for all those consecutive days and years that they couldn't even compile an investigative report or news story worthy of a journalistic award.

It's not a question of right or wrong. In order to win an award for excellence in journalism it has to be both journalism and excellent. Fox News fails on both counts. Agenda-driven, tabloid news is not excellent journalism.

Fox News is the ultimate Murdoch product because it brought tabloid journalism to American television, which is what Murdoch built his empire on. Dance with the one that brung ya, if it ain't broke don't fix it. The bottom line of Fox News and its business model of tabloid journalism is, dispense with actual reporting, which costs a lot of money to do well, and replace it with far less expensive pontificating that will attract audiences. For a tabloid news channel like Fox News, that means the value added is a colorful partisan take on the news. Otherwise the channel has no reason to attract viewers, because viewers can get a non-partisan take on the news from anywhere.

Former CNN head Rick Kaplan related the story of how he was confronted by Time Warner executives who were dissatisfied with CNN’s profits despite what had been record revenues. “But Fox News made just as much profit and did so with just half the revenues of CNN, because it does not carry so many reporters on its staff.” The message was clear: cut expenses, close bureaus and fire reporters, lots of them.

In short, Fox News is the logical business product for an era where corporations see journalism an unprofitable undertaking. News, both national and local, has always been a money loser. Rupert Murdock changed that, not by making news excellence a priority at the expense of profit, but by making profit the priority at the expense of journalistic integrity.

The fact that otherwise highly intelligent conservatives are unable to see this only reinforces the notion that they prefer to be spoonfed the sustenance that feeds their soul, their mouths open and waiting without thought or question.

At the same time some believe that the left leaning networks and publication have more integrity in fairly presenting the news. Is this true or do they have proof? No.but they continually tell themselves this,so its got to be true. It's just got to be.

It's true, and the proof is in the reporting. It's right there for anyone to view or read for themselves.

 

[Turtle]

You have no proof that this is the case. Its just your opinion and misguided opinions of conservatives.
Turtle wrote:
'Like I said, the MSM, while liberal, at least strives for objective reporting, whereas the conservative media makes no effort whatsoever at objectivity.'
Again, no proof of this. Just your opinion and your blanket statement of conservatives. You must also think there isn't a us versus them attitude that permeates the news regarding liberals? No that doesn't happen. They are pure as the driven snow.

So are you just gonna stick your tongue out at me now? If you can refute anything I've said, please do so. Like I said, the proof is right there in the reporting, all you have to do is read it. Any proof I provide to you, regardless of how unambiguous and irrefutable, will not be accepted by you. So it's better that you attain your knowledge of your own volition, assuming you want to be educated on the matter. It would also help if you understood what journalism actually is and how it works, and thus how to do it. If you understand that, it's easy to see the difference between proper journalism and tabloid journalism.

I never said there wasn't an "us versus them" attitude that permeates the left media, but I certainly can. The radical left, sure there is, but not so much in the MSM. Yes, I know that to a conservative there are only two kinds of people, conservatives and liberals, nothing in between, so the MSM categorization is meaningless with respect to the possibility of there even being something more left than that. If you aren't conservative, and don't tow the conservative agenda line, then you are against conservatives and are de facto a liberal. Being objective is not an option. If you are objective, you are a liberal. But if you could only divest yourself of the emotional attachment to something that doesn't even care about you, then you will be able to see it. And if and when you ever see it, you're gonna be pіssed off because you allowed yourself to be played by Fair and Balanced, played by people convincingly telling you that you should believe them because "you can't make it up, you cannot make this stuff up," while they are making it up.

 

[aristotle]

Is CNN the Devil's workshop? They do a fine job reporting accurately on earthquakes, floods, hurricanes and related natural disasters. However, when a political event presents itself, the mask of objectivity falls off:

Presidential Debate 2012: Outrage as moderator Candy Crowley sides with Obama | Mail Online

CNN explains: Candy Crowley Interjects: Obama 'Did In Fact' Say Libya Attack Was Terrorism - YouTube

Fox explains: John Sununu Slams CNN's Candy Crowley & Obama Post Debate w/ Sean Hannity - 10-16-12 - YouTube

Krauthammer: Candy Crowley Was Essentially Wrong and Contaminated the Argument - YouTube

 

[WanderngFool]

Like the moment in A Beautiful Mind when Russell Crowe realizes the kids he sees can't be real because they don't age. I would think that sooner or later it would dawn on viewers that attacking the President 24 hours a day, seven days a week since before he even took office is a little weird for a "News" network.

So I'm in a restaurant, standing at the counter, getting a take out coffee the other day and the Fox morning show is on. I'm not really paying attention but when the guy says "Harry Reid's vile and disgusting crusade against..." with that hurt and wounded look on his face that he's so good at. I laughed - couldn't help it. The guy next to me, who looked like he was getting his outrage fix for the day, looked at me puzzled. I cheerfully said - "funniest show on tv right there". Oh well, one of us enjoyed the moment.

 

[Turtle]

Is CNN the Devil's workshop? They do a fine job reporting accurately on earthquakes, floods, hurricanes and related natural disasters. However, when a political event presents itself, the mask of objectivity falls off:

Yeah, we know that. And for the reasons outlined above about profit being the driver and the partisan take on the news being the reason to tune in. The difference, of course, is nobody touts CNN as being Fair and Balanced.

 

[Turtle]

Like the moment in A Beautiful Mind when Russell Crowe realizes the kids he sees can't be real because they don't age. I would think that sooner or later it would dawn on viewers that attacking the President 24 hours a day, seven days a week since before he even took office is a little weird for a "News" network.

Then again there also the analogy of the mice with the electrodes wired into the sexual pleasure center of the brain who keep on slapping that monkey button because nothing else matters, everything else is an irrelevant waste of time

 

[Ragman]

slapping that monkey

 

[WanderngFool]

Thanks for quietly capitalizing the A in A Beautiful Mind.

I noticed that too and I meant to fix it but I got sidetracked.

 

[davekc]

Like the moment in A Beautiful Mind when Russell Crowe realizes the kids he sees can't be real because they don't age. I would think that sooner or later it would dawn on viewers that attacking the President 24 hours a day, seven days a week since before he even took office is a little weird for a "News" network.

Normally I would agree. Since we are talking Obama though, it is pretty easy.

 

[LDB]

If we were talking a relatively good president like Carter it might be extreme and excessive to discount the president 24/7. Considering it's Obama, there's probably at least 30/7 worth of material available so only discounting him 24/7 is cutting him a good bit of slack.

 

[muttly]

Yeah, we know that. And for the reasons outlined above about profit being the driver and the partisan take on the news being the reason to tune in. The difference, of course, is nobody touts CNN as being Fair and Balanced.

Disagree. CNN motto is essentially the same.CNN touts themselves as 'The Most TRUSTED Name In News.'
I'm assuming they base that trust being built on honest and accurate reporting.
cnn the most trusted name in news

 

[muttly]

Who says that? I don't know anyone who says that. Fox News doesn't get it wrong every time. They're actually pretty accurate when the report non-political stories that don't have a political side to them. But, as soon as a story crops up that is able to have a partisan side to it, there ya go.

It's not a question of right or wrong. In order to win an award for excellence in journalism it has to be both journalism and excellent. Fox News fails on both counts. Agenda-driven, tabloid news is not excellent journalism.

Fox News is the ultimate Murdoch product because it brought tabloid journalism to American television, which is what Murdoch built his empire on. Dance with the one that brung ya, if it ain't broke don't fix it. The bottom line of Fox News and its business model of tabloid journalism is, dispense with actual reporting, which costs a lot of money to do well, and replace it with far less expensive pontificating that will attract audiences. For a tabloid news channel like Fox News, that means the value added is a colorful partisan take on the news. Otherwise the channel has no reason to attract viewers, because viewers can get a non-partisan take on the news from anywhere.

Former CNN head Rick Kaplan related the story of how he was confronted by Time Warner executives who were dissatisfied with CNN’s profits despite what had been record revenues. “But Fox News made just as much profit and did so with just half the revenues of CNN, because it does not carry so many reporters on its staff.” The message was clear: cut expenses, close bureaus and fire reporters, lots of them.

In short, Fox News is the logical business product for an era where corporations see journalism an unprofitable undertaking. News, both national and local, has always been a money loser. Rupert Murdock changed that, not by making news excellence a priority at the expense of profit, but by making profit the priority at the expense of journalistic integrity.

The fact that otherwise highly intelligent conservatives are unable to see this only reinforces the notion that they prefer to be spoonfed the sustenance that feeds their soul, their mouths open and waiting without thought or question.

It's true, and the proof is in the reporting. It's right there for anyone to view or read for themselves.

Like I said, Just your opinion.

 

[sewmun]

Why do we need parties anyways??All they do is what the lobbiest pay them to do & it is rarely in OUR the people of this great countries best interest!
But first let's impeach Obama & as a way to thank him for all the damage he's done!!

 

[Turtle]

Disagree. CNN motto is essentially the same.CNN touts themselves as 'The Most TRUSTED Name In News.'
I'm assuming they base that trust being built on honest and accurate reporting.
cnn the most trusted name in news

That's what you get for assuming instead of actually knowing. They base it on a Pew study where CNN was named as the most credible television news source (for the 5th year in a row). It's outdated, mainly because Pew hasn't done another credibility study since 2002, and PPP has, but continuing to use the slogan doesn't make them hypocritical. Touting yourself with superlatives like biggest, most, largest, best, or whatever is marketing, not hypocrisy. Touting yourself to actually possess virtues, beliefs or principles which you do not actually possess is hypocritical. Touting themselves as Fair and Balanced when they are clearly neither is hypocritical. Using "We Report. You Decide" as a slogan isn't marketing, it implicitly implies objectivity, and by not being objective it is hypocritical to make that statement.

I really don't know why you are throwing basic intelligence and common sense under the bus in your staunch, emotionally invested defense of Fox News. Like I said, if you like Fox News because you agree with their politics and they feed your soul, fine. But don't kid yourself or try to convince others that they have journalistic integrity or practice journalism at a high level, because they just don't. They make no attempt to be objective and unimpassioned in their reporting. Being partisan is the exact opposite of objective, and the only way you can even approach excellence in journalism is by being objective. If Fox News could make more money by being excellent at journalism, then they'd be all over it.

Be skeptical. Be skeptical of them all.
Further Decline in Credibility Ratings for Most News Organizations | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press

 

[Turtle]

Like I said, Just your opinion.

Awesome retort. You got me. You win. I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just making this stuff up as I go along. Fox News is the most bestest and mosted credible news organization in, like, ever. Their reporting is thorough, in-depth and like totally objective.

 

[muttly]

It's outdated, but they still use it. That's integrity for ya.

 

[Turtle]

It's outdated, but they still use it. That's integrity for ya.

I never claimed CNN had journalistic integrity, only that they aren't hypocritical. Fox News doesn't have journalistic integrity and they are hypocritical about it. Ragging (deflecting the issue) on CNN or any other news source doesn't magically make Fox News have integrity or not be hypocritical. Fox News still claims to be Fair and Balanced when they are not, and they claim to have journalistic integrity when they don't. Nothing that CNN could possibly do can change that.

 

[muttly]

Awesome retort. You got me. You win. I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just making this stuff up as I go along. Fox News is the most bestest and mosted credible news organization in, like, ever. Their reporting is thorough, in-depth and like totally objective.

You said it.