The Impact Of The Big Three On Me

[dhalltoyo]

I have personally owned over 20 new vehicles; everything from Suburbans, to pick ups, to vans, to full size luxury, to compacts, and to sedans.
Prior to 1987 every GM car that I owned has to be returned for a variety of service issues. For example, head replacements on a 1978 engine (valve guides oversized causing slap), leaky windshields, faulty blower/heater motors, bolts missing in the Suburban roof line, etc....

In 1987 I started buying Toyota. I have NEVER had to go back to a dealer for a factory defect. Yep! Zero defects.

I wanted to get into the wonderful world of expediting. Toyota does not make cargo vans. Yep! I bought a 2006 Chevrolet 3500 Duramax. With 1200 miles on it, I am now sitting in a motel in Knoxville awaiting repair. It appears the power steering pump is defective.

Am I an American? You bet! I have served my country faithfully. It is my desire to buy American whenever possible! I gave the big three every opportunity to EARN my business. Poor quality workmanship pushed over to the competition. Once again, I am getting that sour taste as I sit here without a truck to conduct my business.

Business is a two-way street. I bought your GM truck. You got your money, but I am sitting here paying for a motel room because that truck already needs repaired. Maybe the UAW could take up a collection for my next GMAC payment?

 

[TeamDrivers2]

You raised some very legitimate points. I commend you on weighing a "buying decision" based on quality , not your national origins.

I am a "Vietnam Era" vet. I was born and raised in this great country of ours. I also was raised in the auto manufacturing capital of the world. "the motor city"

Tho domestic vehicles are deffinatly better made machines than they were 20 years ago, they still are miles away from what most would consider to be worth-while investments.

Wev'e purchased nothing but JAP & GERMAN vehicles over the course of the last 25 years. I have no doubt whatsoever, that wev'e always stayed ahead with positive equity based on purchasing price and eventual trade in value. Somthing that can't be said for 90% of american made automobiles.

 

[LDB]

I don't know about the power steering pump but suspect it's made by some smaller company and delivered to be installed. Your steering column on the other hand is made by a union employee who has what I'm told is called an "off line" job. He gets a list of the columns for the day telling what color, wheel type, cruise, tilt, etc. and builds them in order per that list. As each is finished it's hung on a hook. The hook travels through the plant and comes down next to the guy with the "on line" job of installing the column.

The "off line" guy is only required to build the wheels on the list. When that's done he's finished for the day. My brother in law works at one of the plants. He walked me through, a very interesting 3 mile walk to follow it all the way through, and pointed all this out to me.

The column guy goes home when he finishes the last column on the list. Some of them won't even stop for 5 minutes to go to the bathroom. It's a race to go home. After about 4.5 hours he leaves. He still gets paid 8 hours though. The union saw to that. The unions are seeing to it that every job in America that can possibly be forced overseas is lost to American workers. Unions are no longer about fairness to the workers. Unions now are only about how far can we push and how much can we get regardless of the long term impact on the company and jobs. Oh, almost forgot about how much can we get for the union bosses to skim off the top and for organized crime to launder and steal. That's our unions nowdays.

Leo Bricker, owner trucks 3034, 4958
OOIDA 677319
73's K5LDB
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator 1+ Years of Service
-----
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.

 

[sunshinetomorow]

sunshine to all
let me tell you about the brand new toyota pu i bought for a newspaper route. Told the salesperson what i needed the pu for and he said great, i evan saw comercials about how tough they were. I had to replace the transmission the window would not wind down any more, the battery and tires had to be replaced all within 3 months. The rear bumper fell off within 6 months and my son showing off his strenght crumpled the front fender when he attempted to pick it up. I paid for all repairs out of my own pocket (Toyota refused to honor the warrenty) and I never bought another toyota since. You see they were exempt from the lemon law and they wanted me to sign an agreement to take the pu to their dealership and if they found out I was responsible i would have to pay for repairs.
I never had that happen with my american vehicles. Leo is right the union worker in this country has not paid enough attention to deals that were made on his behalf and most were not in his best interest. But then how many people in this country have voted or called their political representative. You get what you pay for or vote for.
Be safe and well on your trips

 

[davebeckym]

Back in the 80's i had a newspaper route. I started driving a Corola and switched to a Chevy cause parts were easier to get. Still used the Toyota for a back up. Stopping and starting like that is hard on small cars and trucks. They just aren't made for it. Brakes and roaters every 10,000 miles or less, valves every 125,000.

Now with my Ford Cargo Vans I've had no problems. If you look at the repair records in Consumers Reports for full size trucks and pickups you will see that Ford is a lot better than the GMs and Dodges.

 

[dhalltoyo]

Well, it wasn't the pump after all; well, sort of. The power steering hose was incorrectly routed and when I traveled over those lovely road construction areas on I-75 the downward thrust of the chassis would cause the hose to rub on a pulley. After 1200 miles of intermittent encounters with the pulley it finally wore through.

The service manager originally agreed to replace the pump and actually ordered one from the NC distribution center. The next day he called to say I was good to go. He said the pump was fine. I asked why he didn't replace it as originally planned. He said it would take 4 hours. I said I would wait. He then said, "I can't tie up my diesel mechanic for half-a-day." Hmmmmm!!! I asked him if GM was going to pay him for the warranty work. He replied, "Yes" He then said that GM would want to see the pump.

The dealership employees were exceptional! The service manager was somewhat vague. I suspect that he could produce more profit for his department by having his mechanic repair vehicles that were under the warranty repair guidelines.

That said, I guess someone will have to make sure that Melvin is retrained at that UAW assembly plant so he won't route those hoses incorrectly anymore. Of course, no one will be able to make Melvin responsible for his actions, because he is protected by layers of union representation.

As for the very strange Toyota truck story above, I would like to know when that truck was purchased. If sonny boy can crush the fender, I have to wonder how heavy his foot was on the clutch and how forced the shifts might have been.

 

[klippencott]

I want someone to buy American to keep the expediters busy!

For years I was a Ford owner. In 1997 Nissan was advertising their little King Cab PU for $10,200 Ford wanted $14,500 for a similar new Ranger. I was retiring my little 87 Ranger that I had 250k on. I bought the Nissan, now has 120k on it, front brakes are the only repair it has ever had. It hauls hay on the farm, hauls me around when I'm home and gets 25 mpg. I love that little truck!

In 02 I decided to retire my 84 Ford van that had 300k on. I replaced it with a new Chevy van. Before the Chevy had 10k on it the rear-end had to be replaced, the tilt wheel broke, the pin-fastners that hold the side windows in fell out, and the 12V lighter outlet came loose and shorted the wiring. It is impossible to replace two of the spark plugs without jacking up the engine (yes engine!). That Chevy van has been the worse piece of junk I have ever owned! The overall quailty of it is cheap but the price was high, $22,000 in 02! I still have the Chevy but in 04 I bought a new Sprinter.

The Sprinter which everyone on this forum probably knows all about will runs circles around the Chevy, gets double the mileage and is German engineered.

OK, long story short, since the late 80s it is my opinion that the American auto industry has not made a decent ride. I love the Nissan and Sprinter. Both are non-American designs.

 

[SHARP327]

It's the unions that have caused most of this mess!

First off I'd like to say that I was a chief union stewart for the AFL-CIO Iron workers, working at a company in Roseville Mi. building beverage trucks and armor cars, I was nothing more than a babysitter for about 250 people that didn't want to work and wanted more and more out of the company such as benefits and wages along with more time off!.............the company went belly up!

One time while at a watering hole across the road from the Ford plant in Sterling hgts., a friend and I were downing a couple cold ones while visiting with his friend who worked at the Ford plant when it became clear that there were about 12 guys there that were on the clock at Fords and if by chance someone was paged at the plant that was at the bar a worker would call the bar and say something to the effect of hey Bob they're looking for you then he'd either call or go over and ask what they wanted, these were millwrights making big money at the time!
Any way my friend addressed the group and told them that I'd bought a new car and they asked what kind of car did I buy and I told them it was a Dodge Challenger and they all said it was good that I bought an American car but that's when I said it was made by Mitsubishi and they started saying things like I was the reason why things were slow and people were losing their jobs!

Well maybe I should have kept my mouth shut with 12-15 drunks upset at me but I just had to say! YOU GUYS HAVE GOT ALOT OF NERVE BLAMING ME WHEN YOU'RE HERE GETTING PAID TO GET DRUNK! SO WHOS FAULT IS IT?

That's when my friend who was a bit pale suggested we leave quickly.

I must say that it was one of the best cars I ever owned!

 

[greg334]

You know, the UAW (as much as I hate it) is only a part of the blame.

BUT remember all of this mess is about domestic auto share, not world wide auto share.

The two remaining domestic auto companies, A.K.A. the big two, still have the mentality that they had twenty years ago, build it and they will buy it.

GM for example, outside of their commercial line, can’t come up with styling that will take one GM product and not make it look like another or a foreign competitor. (Excluding the Corvette)

Ford for example has the new Fusion, well sorry Ford it is a rip off of a Cadillac, nothing new.

To add to this, the excuses used to justify some of the future cuts and layoffs, like the BS that healthcare is $1500 per car, only agitate the issue at the consumer level and take the spotlight away from the truth, they don’t really have a good product or a good dealer network to support the product.

There is also this c**P that it is a world economy and GM and Ford are struggling, BS. They have been the world economy and know how to compete in Asia, Russia and China, they did over 60 years ago and nothing has changed – there is even less competition in those markets.

Also as dhalltoyo made the comment; He then said, "I can't tie up my diesel mechanic for half-a-day." Just illustrates my point that the dealer network is no where near what it should be to support any GM product, as a customer I don’t care about his mechanic or his needs, I care about my truck – my $30K investment to employee him and his mechanic.

I am listening to book about WC Durant who created GM and got to tell you that if the leadership would go back to his basic principles that were used to found GM in the first place and shed the AP Sloan management style, they can gain market share back.

If Gm and Ford want to survive, they need to from the top down prove to the US consumer that their products are worth buying. They need to practice some of the Japanese attitude in marketing their product (like maybe lower the profit margin form $8000 to say $3000) and they need to get tough with their dealer network, even take franchises away from those with too many complaints or refuse to service the customer.

 

[davekc]

The only one out of the big three that has at least learned a thing or two from past sins is Chrysler.
They haven't quite caught the imports, but they have probably been the most innovative of the big three.




Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[greg334]

Dave they are the same as Toyota, Honda and any other company that is on our shores making cars, they are foriegn.

I got this thing about calling Chrysler a domestic car company, they are not, haven't been since the take over. A lot of their production is in other countries, Canada (most of the caravans) and Mexico (65% truck production) and they are moving slowly more overseas. They are part of a German Company as is the subsidiaries of ThyssenKrupp and Becker and a few others who were american companies to begin with.

I think that when we think about any foriegn, we instantly think of a Japanese car company, not German. Most German, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Messerschmit, Maico and of course VW all thought of our landscape since the mid 1950's. The Japanese have been importing cars since 1950's but in very small quanities, maybe a few hundred a year for all thier car makers until the late 1960's when the Datsun boom started.

 

[dhalltoyo]

Amen on the UAW workers at the watering hole. I live within two blocks of the Duramax plant and a GM Truck and Bus assembly plant. The bars around those facilities do a good business at all hours of the day.

I have a fellow church member who works for Delphi (what's left of them) who has told me about NC machine operators who have put up cardboard barricades around a portion of their work area so they could catch a few winks. They need the extra sleep so they can farm when they leave Delphi. Hmmmm!!! They get two incomes and I get a poorly assembled vehicle.

The "Rework" lot at the assembly plant is huge! They put out unfinished products and then go back and add missing parts. If you visit the Toyota plant in Georgetown you will see 5 bays for "Reworks". If they ever exceed that number the line stops until they correct the problem. Workers at that plant can stop the line themselves if they see a problem.

Does anyone know who played an instrumental part in starting the UAW? Did you ever hear of Walter and Victor Reuther? Walter became a die leader for Ford, but was fired in 1932 for Socialist political activity. The following year Reuther undertook a two year long world tour with his brother Victor, working for a time at the Gorky automobile factory equipped for the Soviet Union by Henry Ford.

That is the Gorky auto plant in the Soviet Union!

 

[rode2rouen]

> The unions are seeing to it that every
>job in America that can possibly be forced overseas is lost
>to American workers. Unions are no longer about fairness to
>the workers. Unions now are only about how far can we push
>and how much can we get regardless of the long term impact
>on the company and jobs. Oh, almost forgot about how much
>can we get for the union bosses to skim off the top and for
>organized crime to launder and steal. That's our unions
>nowdays.
>
>Leo Bricker, owner trucks 3034, 4958
>OOIDA 677319
>73's K5LDB
>Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
>EO Forum Moderator 1+ Years of Service
>-----
>Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you
>like.


Gosh, Leo, you make it sound like the unions force the companies into accepting the work rules that are in reality negotiated by both parties. You know, for a "moderator", your painting of all unions as hotbeds of organized crime is decidedly immoderate. That would be like me saying that anyone who ever drove for FECC is an insipid moron. Both of our statements would have a certain ammount of truth in them, but obviously would not apply in every instance.

You really ought to moderate the rhetoric a bit, there may be an impressionable young mind reading this thread.


Rex

 

[RichM]

Lets not forget that at one time Companys were brutal to their workers. Children worked 12 hour days,female workers were sexually assualted by foreman's and so on. Sweat shops and dangerous conditions brought the Unions into the work force as the individual
had no power. It is still that way in many countries,I am no fan of the UAW but at one time they were needed. The pendulum swings and right now it is too far off center favoring the workers.
The biggest thing that galls me is
the salaries and bonuses paid out to so called Senior Executives that run a Company into the ground.
These men and women get fired by the Board of Directors and walk away with severance packages worth millions.

Recently American airlines announced large bonuses that would be paid to about 800 so called managers,but the Pilots,Flight attendants,and Mechanics all have taken hits in their wages.
Something is wrong here but who knows how it will turn out.

 

[SHARP327]

Greg... the only reason the Corvette looks like it does is due to the Viper.

The consumers have the power to change things but with this I got mine attitude we're going to loose our shirts,each and every one of us and it's going to be to late when we realize it!

You hear the car companys reporting millions in loses each quarter, now come on! there's no way any company can lose that much every quarter over and over and over again that's B...S...!, as I see it they set the prices high and offer discounts then declare that revenue a loss.

To sum it up! there's this greed thing going on by the car companys and this I want to make big bucks and do nothing I don't have too attitude from the workers.

Maybe someday you'll see the Mexican boarder patrol watching for us trying to get into Mexico for a job.

 

[Crazynuff]

> Back in the 80's i had a newspaper route. I started driving
>a Corola and switched to a Chevy cause parts were easier to
>get. Still used the Toyota for a back up. Stopping and
>starting like that is hard on small cars and trucks. They
>just aren't made for it. Brakes and roaters every 10,000
>miles or less, valves every 125,000.
>
> Now with my Ford Cargo Vans I've had no problems. If you
>look at the repair records in Consumers Reports for full
>size trucks and pickups you will see that Ford is a lot
>better than the GMs and Dodges.
If you look at diesel trucks you will see Ford is the worst by far . BTW for those not aware of it , the GM Duramax is made by Isuzu . Many "American " trucks are made in Canada or Mexico . "Imports " like Toyota and Nissan are made in the U.S.A

 

[dhalltoyo]

Actually, socialists brought about unions. It was their design to create a revolt amongst the working class. Every totalitarian system is birthed by stirring up the working class. Think not? Just watch Hilliary's tricks over the next two years.

While it is true that many companies had very difficult working conditions, the final decision to work for those companies always rests with the individual. In other words, the choice is yours! That is why it is so great to live in a Republic.

As America became urbanized many workers chose to stay in the factories instead of returning to the family farm. They got in their comfort zone with the easy accessibility of goods and services. They traded poor working conditions for easy access to creature comforts. We are still a convenience oriented society. That's why you'll pay $2.00 for a 20 oz soda at Pilot instead of loading your truck with $3.98 12 packs from Kroger, Meijer or Wal-Mart.

If the workers would have returned to the family farms and rural businesses the companies would have yielded to reasonable requests or they would have shut their doors due to a lack of a work force.

 

[wahoofan]

DOES ANYONE HAVE AN OPINION ON THE GMC SAVANNA CARGO VAN? WHAT IS QUALITY AND RIDE VALUE?

 

[greg334]

YEA It is a good van.

 

[Broompilot]

Intresting comments, Lion king once again has an intresting look from a historic point of view. I still feel some companies given the chance will screw you wether it be the local mechanic taking advantage of the traveling family, or the big bank abusing fees remember our now cash less society......

As for the automakers, remember when in the 70s every corner Standard station had a tow truck. Cars no longer break down nearly as much as they use to times have changed and so has the dependabiity of cars. Every head of the house hold was expected to do any minor repair on his own car not any more but in actuality other than a bulb I have not turned a wrench on my truck (pick up) since I bought it. I hope the American workers keep there jobs it looks to me that Designers are actually listening to what we want, Mustang 06 sharp & affordable, the new Dodge Challenger very exciting car, Corvette most affordable super sports car built. I dont want one but I would take one over one of those European cars priced 6 times there price with only a fraction of second faster from 0-100.