The Future of the Republican Party and USA

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Some people should not be allowed to vote, like non-citizens of the United States and citizens under a certain age. Some citizens lose their right to vote due to the conviction of certain criminal offenses.

Other than that, all people born in the USA and its territories have the right to vote. So do people who have legally acquired U.S. citizenship through processes established for that purpose.

For those people, I believe government should do everything it can to make it easy for people to vote, not hard. While it is reasonable and desirable to maintain good processes to ensure the integrity of every ballot cast, it is fundamentally wrong to make it harder for people who are entitled to vote than it needs to be. If we are to have a government of the people, by the people and for the people, lawmakers have no business using their power to pass laws that make it difficult for the people to make their preferences known by casting their votes.

Making it easy for all eligible citizens to vote can include:

Vote by mail
Early voting
24 hour voting
Mailing ballots to all eligible voters without prior voter request
Secure drop boxes placed for voter convenience
Sunday voting
Extended hours at the polls
A larger number of polling places, not smaller, so people can easily get to them

All of these can be done without compromising the integrity of each vote cast. Indeed, all of these have been done without triggering the voter fraud some seem to fear. While voter fraud is a legitimate concern and local officials and established processes are highly effective in mitigating that risk, inflated cries of voter fraud that cloak underlying desires to disenfranchise those who do not vote like you are illegitimate.
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter

"The modern approach to voter suppression can often be characterized as death by a thousand cuts — seemingly minor rules about issues like voter ID, mail voting, resource allocation at polling places, and voter roll maintenance can add up to create significant burdens, particularly on communities of color.

"It is thus often difficult to understand the full impact of new restrictive voting laws when looking at any one provision by itself. And new provisions that seem less burdensome at first glance are sometimes indicative of a broader push to sabotage election outcomes that may not be as obvious."


The voter suppression I refer to is more than "Democratic talking points." Actual bills are being introduced, actual laws are being passed, and the actual effect being now seen is fewer people registering to vote and fewer people (true citizens who are entitled to vote) able to easily obtain absentee or mail-in ballots.

:clapping-happy:


:mad:
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Some people should not be allowed to vote, like non-citizens of the United States and citizens under a certain age. Some citizens lose their right to vote due to the conviction of certain criminal offenses.

Other than that, all people born in the USA and its territories have the right to vote. So do people who have legally acquired U.S. citizenship through processes established for that purpose.

For those people, I believe government should do everything it can to make it easy for people to vote, not hard. While it is reasonable and desirable to maintain good processes to ensure the integrity of every ballot cast, it is fundamentally wrong to make it harder for people who are entitled to vote than it needs to be. If we are to have a government of the people, by the people and for the people, lawmakers have no business using their power to pass laws that make it difficult for the people to make their preferences known by casting their votes.

Making it easy for all eligible citizens to vote can include:

Vote by mail
Early voting
24 hour voting
Mailing ballots to all eligible voters without prior voter request
Secure drop boxes placed for voter convenience
Sunday voting
Extended hours at the polls
A larger number of polling places, not smaller, so people can easily get to them

All of these can be done without compromising the integrity of each vote cast. Indeed, all of these have been done without triggering the voter fraud some seem to fear. While voter fraud is a legitimate concern and local officials and established processes are highly effective in mitigating that risk, inflated cries of voter fraud that cloak underlying desires to disenfranchise those who do not vote like you are illegitimate.
No, they aren’t highly effective in mitigating the risks. Some facilitate it.
 
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Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Making it easy for all eligible citizens to vote can include:

Vote by mail - with a valid excuse, if postmarked by an established deadline, ballot on special watermarked paper, ID# provided with confirmed signature.
Early voting
24 hour voting
Mailing ballots to all eligible voters without prior voter request - this is an open invitation to fraud on a massive scale, for obvious reasons.
Secure drop boxes placed for voter convenience - they're not secure, also chain of custody issues enhance fraudsters. Instead, vote by mail.
Sunday voting
Extended hours at the polls
A larger number of polling places, not smaller, so people can easily get to them

All of these can be done without compromising the integrity of each vote cast. Indeed, all of these have been done without triggering the voter fraud some seem to fear. While voter fraud is a legitimate concern and local officials and established processes are highly effective in mitigating that risk, inflated cries of voter fraud that cloak underlying desires to disenfranchise those who do not vote like you are illegitimate.
The three questionable voting methods in my mind are in bold, with comments in color. The key words from the above are "ELIGIBLE CITIZENS". It's not unreasonable to require govt issued photo ID for proof of citizenship in order to vote or register to vote.
No, they aren’t highly effective in mitigating the risks. Some facilitate it.
Especially mass mailings of ballots. Consider the hoards of people moving out of places like CA and NY whose defunct addresses would receive ballots.
I keep hearing this but nobody has ever shown one iota of evidence.
You must not have looked very hard. There's volumes of evidence for voter fraud, and it's been going on since voting began. It's just gotten more sophisticated in recent years, and a simple web search reveals numerous examples. Here's just one:
 
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coalminer

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
See post #107.

Edit: here's another one for good measure:

I like that website you posted, how it breaks down by state and shows a list of cases newest being first. Now with that being said, it goes back over 20 years and there are 1340 cases, and if you read the ones that had to do with the 2020 election, all the ones I read were people who voted for Trump more than once.

I know you posted that to show that there is election fraud, its actually showing that the amount of fraud being committed is miniscule.
 
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Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I like that website you posted, how it breaks down by state and shows a list of cases newest being first. Now with that being said, it goes back over 20 years and there are 1340 cases, and if you read the ones that had to do with the 2020 election, all the ones I read were people who voted for Trump more than once.

I know you posted that to show that there is election fraud, its actually showing that the amount of fraud being committed is miniscule.
It shows the cases in which people were caught and actually prosecuted. Nobody knows how much more voter fraud that's happened and gone undetected (on both sides). There are huge faults in the system, especially with the helter-skelter emergency covid policies on absentee/mail-in ballots in 2020. Why do people think voter fraud is so rare when identity theft is so common?
 

coalminer

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It shows the cases in which people were caught and actually prosecuted. Nobody knows how much more voter fraud that's happened and gone undetected (on both sides). There are huge faults in the system, especially with the helter-skelter emergency covid policies on absentee/mail-in ballots in 2020. Why do people think voter fraud is so rare when identity theft is so common?
Because identity theft is used by criminals to line their pockets, what does an individual voter gain by fraudulent voting?
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
It shows the cases in which people were caught and actually prosecuted. Nobody knows how much more voter fraud that's happened and gone undetected (on both sides).

"... on both sides ..."

:tearsofjoy:

There are huge faults in the system,

YUGE !!!

:tearsofjoy:

especially with the helter-skelter emergency covid policies on absentee/mail-in ballots in 2020.

And yet, there has been no widespread electoral/voter fraud demonstrated under those policies.

Not only not demonstrated, but in fact little - if any - real evidence presented.

Why do people think voter fraud is so rare when identity theft is so common?

Because it's apples and oranges.

The reasons why identity theft is perpetrated is largely personal economics (financial crimes)

Voter/electoral fraud is largely a thing without a similar incentive (political motivations)
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
An additional update on Rep. Nehls (R-TX) of Marge's "Gazpacho Police" fame:

FLSGtnyWUAIbiz9


It's your modern Republican Party ...

:tearsofjoy:
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
It's not unreasonable to require govt issued photo ID for proof of citizenship in order to vote or register to vote.
I agree. This would be a reasonable requirement. Those who oppose it say it is more difficult for certain voters to get such an ID than others. The solution to that is to make it easier for people to get them. By that, I do not mean make it easy to forge IDs or obtain them through fraudulent means. I mean assist people in rounding up the needed paperwork, completing the needed forms, traveling to the issuing offices, opening the offices additional hours, etc.

For a host of reasons it is in the best interests of the country to identify its true citizens and to assist those citizens in easily identifying themselves for voting and other purposes.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Regarding vote by mail, the Oregon system provides a good example:

Ballots are mailed to every registered voter before the election.

There are no polling places. Ballots are returned by mail, delivered to elections offices, or returned to designated drop sites. A verification process is in place to ensure only proper ballots and properly completed ballots are counted.

The process is further described here:


This system produces higher voter turnout and a miniscule and statistically insignificant amount of voter fraud. For more about that, see this:


Colorado, Washington (state), and Utah have adopted similar systems. I'd like to see all U.S. states and territories do the same. That would solve far more problems than it creates, improve voter turnout, and make it easy for all eligible citizens to exercise their right to vote.
 
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