The Case For Single Payer, Universal Health Care For The United States

[Oilerman1957]

This country is more that able to solve this problem, if there really is one. It can and must be done without force and with as little interference from the government. That is the only way we can remain free. We must take back our birthright of freedom.

The government throws around numbers like a furniture chain does. There is the big stink right now about the RNC using scare tactics, well, what is Obama and the DNC using to push Obama care? I don't see any difference.

I would be will to bet that they, the government, have no real idea what is going on with health care costs or why they are going up. I would be willing to bet that they have no idea just how many do not have insurance or why. I would like to know where they get their numbers but NOT ONE of the elected scum from my state will answer those questions when asked directly. Why is that? Is it possible that they are lying? Why won't they answer when asked?

Caring for ones health is the responsibility of the individual. It is my contention that government interference in that market is one of the main causes of price increases and I believe that if they take this part of our economy over the costs will skyrocket, the quality of care will degrade and there will be rationing like there is in the great European socialist systems.

I want control of my health care. I do not believe that anyone serving in this government is capable of decided what is best for my wife and I. I believe that WE are best able to make those choices. That is called FREEDOM. Anything else is slavery.

Unless you are paying cash for every medical expense you dont have full control anyways.

 

[layoutshooter]

Unless you are paying cash for every medical expense you dont have full control anyways.

I do pay cash for most of my expenses. My wife and I carry a HSA style policy. High deductable, $2500 each. Much lower premiums than traditional health insurance. Then we bank the difference in a bank account. The premiums and the monies put in the bank come off the top of our income, lowering our taxable income. The interest on the account is not taxable and when you use the money it is not taxed as long as you use it for health care reasons. I like this system for the control it gives me. Of course, they are likely to be eliminated under Obama care. They are out after control, not health care. He says he will consider leaving them in place but I would not count on it. He wants government control of the entire system. Nothing less.

 

[Oilerman1957]

I do pay cash for most of my expenses. My wife and I carry a HSA style policy. High deductable, $2500 each. Much lower premiums than traditional health insurance. Then we bank the difference in a bank account. The premiums and the monies put in the bank come off the top of our income, lowering our taxable income. The interest on the account is not taxable and when you use the money it is not taxed as long as you use it for health care reasons. I like this system for the control it gives me. Of course, they are likely to be eliminated under Obama care. They are out after control, not health care. He says he will consider leaving them in place but I would not count on it. He wants government control of the entire system. Nothing less.

Then you must make good money, hahahaha. But us lowly van drivers dont have that kind of cash, hahaha

 

[layoutshooter]

No, we do what we have to do. The premiums are low, about $250 per month per person. We do without other things to fund the account and pay for what needs paid. That is what responsible adults do. We care for ourselves. That is what we have always done. Most of our lives we have paid for part or all of our health care costs. We prefer that. It is called freedom.

 

[chefdennis]

oiler wrote:

Unless you are paying cash for every medical expense you dont have full control anyways.

oiler wrote:

But us lowly van drivers dont have that kind of cash, hahaha

wrong again, when my insurance only covers up to a cerytain point, my wife or myself writes a check for the difference...i get whatever procedure my dr deems necessary, not the insurance company....so yea as a lowly van driver more then you think have "that kind of cash"......and i am sorry to hear at as a van driver you are hurting.....

 

[Oilerman1957]

No, we do what we have to do. The premiums are low, about $250 per month per person. We do without other things to fund the account and pay for what needs paid. That is what responsible adults do. We care for ourselves. That is what we have always done. Most of our lives we have paid for part or all of our health care costs. We prefer that. It is called freedom.

Do you do without things like boats and stuff? hahaha Im just kidding

 

[layoutshooter]

Do you do without things like boats and stuff? hahaha Im just kidding

I would love a new boat, I can't afford it. My boat is over 20 years old and long paid for. Yes, I do without, darn it!! LOL!! Now that is something the government can buy for me! HEHEHE!!

 

[Oilerman1957]

I would love a new boat, I can't afford it. My boat is over 20 years old and long paid for. Yes, I do without, darn it!! LOL!! Now that is something the government can buy for me! HEHEHE!!

I live on a small lake and i dont even have a boat, lol, times are tough

 

[layoutshooter]

Mine is just a little 16' with a 60 on it. I do have a canoe and then, of course, my layout boat. My 16' is just too small for around here and the wrong deck configuration for what I do, but I make do. I am lucky to have many friends that I hunt with and we "share" rigs. I provide my layout and a decoy spread if we need a second setup. They provide one layout, 3-4 bigger boats, decoys etc. There are about 15 people that we hunt with on a normal basis.

 

[LDB]

Do without? Do without????? You mean do without 300 channel cable tv? Do without the latest plasma display? Do without the 9.2 surround sound or whatever is 'it' now? Do without the new car? Do without the ridiculously expensive designer clothes? The list just goes on and on.

There is a problem and a significant portion of the problem is so many who won't do without many of these things to pay for their own health care and expect/demand it be given to them. I'm not saying there aren't many who just can't afford it regardless. I am saying the "problem" isn't nearly as big a "problem" as our control grabbers are making it out to be. If the numbers were broken out between those who "can't" get coverage and those who choose not to get coverage there would be far less fearmongering by the administration.

 

[Toronto40]

I'm and American living in Canada for the past 3 years and I have to tell you that the hospitals, and the doctors and the treatment you get up here is equal to what I received in the states. The only difference is I have a health card here and it doesn't cost me anything to go see the doctor. I know you hear all these horror stories about here in Canada, but I've learned that your only hearing the worst case stories. Every country including the US has horror stories.

We do pay more in sales tax, but I feel its a good trade off considering that when I became and owner operator, healthcare was not a worry for me and my family. I'm not even a Canadian citizen, just a Permanent resident. After transferring here with my job 3 years ago, me and my wife were given health cards 3 months after being here. Our two kids were born here, they are dual citizens by the way. The were issued health cards at the hospital, which I must say was one of the nicest hospitals I've been in. We also had a private room.

If we were to move back to the states we would have no healthcare at all. Even though the US is the richest country in the world and their is medicare for seniors, half the country thinks universal healthcare is a bad thing. My wifes employer covers her and the rest of us for free with a card that covers prescriptions and the dentist. (You can get family coverage for around $150 a month if your spouse doesn't work or your self employed, no medical questions.) It also covers us in a emergency in the states at 100% They also give 1 years maternity leave that is paid for each child born.

When I transferred up here with my job, I didn't know all was available but I'm glad it is. Some countries in Europe have way better systems than here. Open your eyes guys!! A lot of people will loose a lot of money if the heathcare goes to more of a European or Canadian model. I could go on and on but I vote for change in America. I may come back one day and I don't want to have to worry about healthcare for me and my family if one of us gets sick.

 

[LDB]

How many dozen million criminal aliens has Canada given amnesty to and put into their healthcare system to escalate the costs and dilute the benefits? Based on two kids born in the last three years you guys must be fairly young and fairly healthy. Wait 2 or 3 decades and get unhealthy as many aged do and report again on how that system is.

 

[chefdennis]

Canadian official has heart surgery -- in the U.S.

The Checkup - Canadian official has heart surgery -- in the U.S.

Yeap its a good system alright...good enough for the people, but not the governing body...Thats why the Canadian PM Danny Williams went to FLA for heart surgury because as he said, "It is my heart and my health" as the Canadian system could NOT proform the procedure he had done in here in the states...so he went where he could get the best and least invasive surgury.....LOL, the hospital and doctors even offered to wave the normal months waiting period because of his position in the government, he told them , "nope" and went to FLA......oh and he paid for it himself ...and it was free in Canada...

good enough for the people, just not for those are in the government.....Kind of like what our elected reps on the liberal left want to do to the people here, dump socialized medicine on the people, but not for themselves...they still get to keep there "top shelf' coverage.....

 

[Oilerman1957]

oiler wrote:



oiler wrote:



wrong again, when my insurance only covers up to a cerytain point, my wife or myself writes a check for the difference...i get whatever procedure my dr deems necessary, not the insurance company....so yea as a lowly van driver more then you think have "that kind of cash"......and i am sorry to hear at as a van driver you are hurting.....

It was a joke dude, hahahaha

 

[jaminjim]

I live on a small lake and i dont even have a boat, lol, times are tough

No you live next to a somewhat large puddle.

 

[Oilerman1957]

No you live next to a somewhat large puddle.

hahaha thats sooooo true

 

[Toronto40]

Canadian official has heart surgery -- in the U.S.

The Checkup - Canadian official has heart surgery -- in the U.S.

Yeap its a good system alright...good enough for the people, but not the governing body...Thats why the Canadian PM Danny Williams went to FLA for heart surgury because as he said, "It is my heart and my health" as the Canadian system could NOT proform the procedure he had done in here in the states...so he went where he could get the best and least invasive surgury.....LOL, the hospital and doctors even offered to wave the normal months waiting period because of his position in the government, he told them , "nope" and went to FLA......oh and he paid for it himself ...and it was free in Canada...

good enough for the people, just not for those are in the government.....Kind of like what our elected reps on the liberal left want to do to the people here, dump socialized medicine on the people, but not for themselves...they still get to keep there "top shelf' coverage.....

Since I actually live in Canada and talk to people instead of grab an article off the headlines, I can tell you the system is not that bad. Most people I know are satisfied with their healthcare here. Also, I think life expectancy is higher in Canada than in the US. I lived in the Us for 37 years before coming here. I sold life and health insurance in the states for 5 years. My wife lived in England for 5 years when she was in university and she said the health care system over their is pretty good as well. Its also universal. I'm not a liberal, but I did watch the movie sicko and it was pretty much on the money. Less all the spin of course. He interviewed a lot of Americans living in other countries and they seemed pretty satisfied as well.

 

[1CHINGON]

Do without? Do without????? You mean do without 300 channel cable tv? Do without the latest plasma display? Do without the 9.2 surround sound or whatever is 'it' now? Do without the new car? Do without the ridiculously expensive designer clothes? The list just goes on and on.

There is a problem and a significant portion of the problem is so many who won't do without many of these things to pay for their own health care and expect/demand it be given to them. I'm not saying there aren't many who just can't afford it regardless. I am saying the "problem" isn't nearly as big a "problem" as our control grabbers are making it out to be. If the numbers were broken out between those who "can't" get coverage and those who choose not to get coverage there would be far less fearmongering by the administration.

LDB, first, I see the flag on your avatar and wish I knew how to fly mine as proudly as you do yours. Second, you are correct, if I buy this, someone else will provide that.

The problem I see in health care is greed, by those that provide it as well as by those that need it. No, not all use the system incorrectly, but the system has also been broken for a long time.

I remember living in Houston, and once in a while I went to visit the doctor, and simply could not understand how you could charge a patient $50 back then for such a short visit. And those that did not have it had to pay that amount.

If we had a system where there was general coverage for the legals, at one rate for all that participated in this system, I truly believe that would be the valve that released the pressure from the current system, allowing the poor and anyone else choosing this care to be treated with dignity.

If there are others that prefer their current health care system, and want to continue with it, so be it.

What troubles me is the large numbers of people that don't receive medical care when they really need it, and may affect others unsuspecting they are exposed to something they really don't want.

It is the duty of any society to care for all, particularly those that can't help themselves. I do not advocate higher taxes to anyone to pay for anything. What I do demand is that anyone needing medical care receives it, because I don't want to be near sick people.

Further, the government already subsidizes housing, food, etc...
Why not health care for the poor? And the rest of us have affordable rates for health care.

BTW, when I left Houston, that same doctor was charging $75 for a real short visit 5 years ago. Wonder if he has any patients now...

 

[greg334]

Since I actually live in Canada and talk to people instead of grab an article off the headlines, I can tell you the system is not that bad. Most people I know are satisfied with their healthcare here. Also, I think life expectancy is higher in Canada than in the US.

I think you missed a very important point - it is a great system for healthy people.

I don't get my info from the headlines but see what has happened to people I know. Sitting in a hospital in Windsor while listening to the doctor explain to my cousin and Aunt that there is a limited amount of medication because their age and they will be dead within 6 months. All because of their age - 55.

Until you really need something, then it is a good system. If you want to have behavioral control through medical access, great, this is the system that works. But get a kidney stone and have to wait a month for an MRI or CAT scan.

It's odd that 40% of patients my wife deals with who come from Canada to get their cancer treatment or other things done.

I lived in the Us for 37 years before coming here. I sold life and health insurance in the states for 5 years. My wife lived in England for 5 years when she was in university and she said the health care system over their is pretty good as well.

When she went to the university, she was a student, young student. She got access based on her ability to be part of society, being more useful then say someone who just retired from the chippy shop in Soho. But be old and see what happens. They, like Canada and other countries limit the costs of health care by limiting access.

Its also universal. I'm not a liberal, but I did watch the movie sicko and it was pretty much on the money. Less all the spin of course. He interviewed a lot of Americans living in other countries and they seemed pretty satisfied as well.

Well tell you a secret, the movie is a scam.

I don't know if you actually know how it works in Cuba, it was a lot like the Soviet Union. When you are a foreigner, you get pretty good care compared to the average citizen. I have a friend who worked in the Soviet Union, marrying a Russian girl. The result was better living for the family, access to the stores for foreigners and better health care. Not to mention they were moved into better apartments and had better access to higher education.

What that fat slob left out of the movie wasn't the problems of their health care system, the tax system that was used to support the system or the lack of freedoms. Forget that he left out the fact that Foreign people get better care but more importantly the limitations placed on people with certain diseases, like AIDS. People with some communicable diseases are removed from society, and in some cases they have no access to anyone after that.

 

[witness23]

When she went to the university, she was a student, young student. She got access based on her ability to be part of society, being more useful then say someone who just retired from the chippy shop in Soho. But be old and see what happens. They, like Canada and other countries limit the costs of health care by limiting access.

For 3 years I drove my 78 year old grandmother to the Niagra Falls area in Canada twice a year to see a heart specialist for her check-ups and medication. They didn't limit her access to medication or care, it was cheaper and she fealt she received better care from that doctor.