Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
Nope. None, Nope But i have learned that im not in the position to make the rules, so i try to work the rules to my advantage.
The Case For Single Payer, Universal Health Care For The United States
- Thread starter OntarioVanMan
- Start date
Nope. None, Nope But i have learned that im not in the position to make the rules, so i try to work the rules to my advantage.
Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
Come on Greg!! It is typical of the liberal left to attack the messenger because they either don't understand the message or can't argue with it.....
Didnt you just call me a name? hahahaha
So you would condone the use of force against US citizens to insure your access to health care? How much force?
Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
Nope, no force should be used, i dont even pretend to have the answer to make it all work.
The current bills can use force to make a private citizen buy a policy that they choose not too. There are fines, what happens when a citizen refuses to buy a government approved policy, which is his/her/it's right to refuse, and then refuses to pay the fines?
Does the use of fines/force advance the idea of freedom or degrade it? If it is such a good idea why would force even be considered? Will the creation of another class of crimes help?
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
Oiler wrote:
Well if the shoe fits, then i guess i did. but only you know if the shoe fits, the rest of us or i should say some of us here are just making "Assumptions"....and we all know what happens when that is done from time to time.....
Well if the shoe fits, then i guess i did. but only you know if the shoe fits, the rest of us or i should say some of us here are just making "Assumptions"....and we all know what happens when that is done from time to time.....
Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
I think its just a way to make people go along with the new system, The idea is to have everyone covered so you or me isnt paying for someone else's health care, As always there will be ones who dont comply so they are looking for a way to make them comply. I just think everyone should have health care, however they make that happen. I dont know how to do it. I think no matter how it gets down there are going to be problems. Its such a big problem.
Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
Oiler wrote:
Well if the shoe fits, then i guess i did. but only you know if the shoe fits, the rest of us or i should say some of us here are just making "Assumptions"....and we all know what happens when that is done from time to time.....
well, the shoe doesnt fit, i dont go along with what any one party or union stands for, Im my own person and do and say what i feel is right.
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
That is a good thing....and with that said, can you please explain why EVERYONE is entitled to health insurance??? and why should the government use tax dollars to illegally pay for it and then use the irs to punish those that don't comply??
And before you tell me that the fed gov is paying for some of it now with taxes, you are right i have real issues with that also...those entitlement programs are all B/S......
And before you tell me that the fed gov is paying for some of it now with taxes, you are right i have real issues with that also...those entitlement programs are all B/S......
Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
you like that word dont you> entitled, lol I dont look at it as being entitled, I think everyone should have some form of health care. But the wages being payed will not support many from being able to buy from an insurance company. Its a huge problem for many and one that needs addressed, how? i dont have that answer, every way you look at it its complicated
You and I are going to pay for others, that is why there is a trillion dollar price tag for only ten years on this bill. That is why there will be tax increases to pay for it. We will pay and pay through the nose.
How much force are you willing to accept? Wage garnishments? Fines? Jail? Deadly force? You have to decide, there will be force used.
How much freedom are you willing to lose for this? Are you willing to give up large parts of the Constitution? I am not. I will refuse to by a mandated policy, I will refuse to pay the fines and will resist arrest with all means at my disposal. That is my right to do so. The Federal government has no legal authority to impose this on us. You have to decide how much force you are willing to accept before this is imposed. Once it is done it is far too late.
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
Again why is it that everyone should have health insurance??? and if it is forced on the employer to either pay for it or pay higher wages to cover it, its that an entitlement mentality!?!? I mean you are syaing everyone should have it, so they must be "entitled" for one reason or another..what is that reason? Just being born means they should have health insurance??
Why stop there? Why not say everyone should have a home too or even a job....where is that written? Where is that legal to force onto someone to provide those things?? and why is health insurance any different that any of those things???
Oh and by the way, more and more states are pushing bills to tell the FED gov to stuff this healthcare bill, they aren't going to make the people of there states particapate in it...why?? because it is unconstitutional and violates the states rights......and the people rights....
Why stop there? Why not say everyone should have a home too or even a job....where is that written? Where is that legal to force onto someone to provide those things?? and why is health insurance any different that any of those things???
Oh and by the way, more and more states are pushing bills to tell the FED gov to stuff this healthcare bill, they aren't going to make the people of there states particapate in it...why?? because it is unconstitutional and violates the states rights......and the people rights....
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Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
They can listen to your phone calls, is that illegal? What do you do about that? Did you give up your privacy without doing anything? And no, I will have health care, pay as i may.
Oilerman1957
Expert Expediter
Cause thats the way i believe, you probably have an employer health care through ur wife, so why should you care? Nope, not entitled, just the right thing to do.
First off, I did not support warrentless taping. Obama does, he just signed the bill that extends that program. Second, despite what you see and hear in movies and on TV, they are not able to listen to every phone call made. That does not excuse the attack on our freedom but you and I are not being listened to.
What did I do? For now all I did was vote against those who voted for it. What the next step will be next if this gets worse is not known yet. It could get ugly. The actions that the government is taking could lead to civil war or revolution.
Oh, you will have health care, government approved health care or face the wrath of the government. Why is the IRS going to be the primary enforcement agency? Don't they already have too much power? Should they be given more? Should they be allowed to use physical force? Do they even have that authority under our Constitution?
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
Nope my wife is also self employed, as i pointed out in the previous post...we pay close to a $1000 a month for health insurance for her, my daughter and myself...and i am fine with doing so...would i like it cheaper, no..because i picked the coverage i wanted and the deductables i wanted and i understand that i have to pay for the extras.......
So then it everyone should have healthcare insurance because it is the "right thing to do"!?!? Gee i would think a home for a homeless person would be more important then healtcare......
So then it everyone should have healthcare insurance because it is the "right thing to do"!?!? Gee i would think a home for a homeless person would be more important then healtcare......
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Thanks, it was a lot of hard work.
I am not being specific enough, I have no problem with the IBOE or IBEW or a few others, they are there to make sure things run right for the worker, a lot of personal positive experience with them.
The problem is with the UAW, Teamsters, AFL-CIO where I not only have had bad experiences but also know a lot of the inner workings with each of them to the point to know it is not about protection, the worker or anything BUT money and power for those who are the leaders.
The one thing I saw when I was growing up and when I entered into the medical field was the abuse of the insurance by workers who felt it was their right to have the best of care. They said because it was fought for, they deserve it, which is pretty much a lie. There was no fighting, there wasn't sacrificing as they claim but rather it was a progression of things that they ended up with the best health care and so on. The amazing thing is this BS has been used for so long that people beleive it. My grandfather had really great insurance as part of his UAW package in the 1950's. When my aunt had cancer at a young age, it wasn't something that was fought over but paid for by the insurance company. Ford even stepped in and helped out with some of the other bills, Big company like that - amazing.
BUT DON'T GET ME WRONG I do not begrudge any of them for what they have until NOW. It is the idea that they start their fricken preaching that it isn't good enough for the rest of the country or that it is the reason for problems at their company - be it an auto company or trucking company - is the high cost of health care.
The dirty little secret that they don't mention is one big important massive truth that they don't seem to acknowledge, we have the BEST care in the world with the BEST technology and the BEST training is because of them getting the BEST health care through their union and on the backs of the people who buy their products. It is rather ironic that they want to move from a great system that works to something that removes their ablity to have control and is rather poor in comparison in every shape and form.
But neither is the Union going to take care of you. I mean I know a lot of dirty nasty things that have happened in different shops and the union refused to step in and help. I mentioned a couple here but regardless, it makes no sense to have a union claim that they are for a worker than sacrifice those workers because the company wants to change.
The way it used to work was a bit different and when the union in the shops were needed, they were really needed and it was right to have a group work together. Today it is a lot different, I mean there isn't a need for a union as much as there is a need for individualities to work to save the company or jobs. By not having the union, people can now multitask and cut costs or come up with ideas to save money - most of all it removes the Us verses Them attitude that was created to get the union in the shops.
Some will always be against this, some will always be in favor of this. And somewhere in the middle the truth will be found.
Is it correct that those that pay top $ for their medical access be charged more so those that don't have $ be cared for? Tough question.
Reading the thread title a few times in the last few days I believe the key point is health care. Should everyone have access? Yes. I am not advocating that the American taxpayer be the one to pay for services. Just like many give to art foundations, maybe health foundations could be established to help those that aren't flush with $. Imagine youeself taking a trip to another country, falling ill, and be denied health care because your insurance, that same one that you pay a lot of $ for, is deemed useless.
I have been to 5 countries, and 4 of them have coverage for all. Anyone needing medical care simply goes to a facility is cared for. The people I saw in those countries appeared healthy. Whatever they do seems to work for them.
And that is the point that Americans need to focus on, make it for them. I have read many posts in this website, and mostly what I read is complaining and whining. One will post in favor of Topic A, and here come the troops discrediting the post, often using remarks made by their favorite bobblehead media personality.
It is great to have an opinion, it is great to share it, and it is great to be against it. This country, the United States of America, is a great country. Keep it great by working together for a more positive future by contributing positively, not by demolishing the words of a person because they had a thought.
I am NOT a Republican. I am NOT a Democrat. I do live in the USA, abide by the laws of this country, and simply try to provide for my family and myself. And as I travel through this great country I am always awed by the work of those before me that made this a great country and wonder daily how to contribute for those after me. I refuse to complain and whine. Because those before me didn't have the time of day for it, they were busy contributing to the betterment of our country.
Health care for all? Once again, yes. Not at the expense of my neighbors nor mine, but then again, we must be charitable for those that don't have $.
God Bless the USA. God Bless the World.
Is it correct that those that pay top $ for their medical access be charged more so those that don't have $ be cared for? Tough question.
Reading the thread title a few times in the last few days I believe the key point is health care. Should everyone have access? Yes. I am not advocating that the American taxpayer be the one to pay for services. Just like many give to art foundations, maybe health foundations could be established to help those that aren't flush with $. Imagine youeself taking a trip to another country, falling ill, and be denied health care because your insurance, that same one that you pay a lot of $ for, is deemed useless.
I have been to 5 countries, and 4 of them have coverage for all. Anyone needing medical care simply goes to a facility is cared for. The people I saw in those countries appeared healthy. Whatever they do seems to work for them.
And that is the point that Americans need to focus on, make it for them. I have read many posts in this website, and mostly what I read is complaining and whining. One will post in favor of Topic A, and here come the troops discrediting the post, often using remarks made by their favorite bobblehead media personality.
It is great to have an opinion, it is great to share it, and it is great to be against it. This country, the United States of America, is a great country. Keep it great by working together for a more positive future by contributing positively, not by demolishing the words of a person because they had a thought.
I am NOT a Republican. I am NOT a Democrat. I do live in the USA, abide by the laws of this country, and simply try to provide for my family and myself. And as I travel through this great country I am always awed by the work of those before me that made this a great country and wonder daily how to contribute for those after me. I refuse to complain and whine. Because those before me didn't have the time of day for it, they were busy contributing to the betterment of our country.
Health care for all? Once again, yes. Not at the expense of my neighbors nor mine, but then again, we must be charitable for those that don't have $.
God Bless the USA. God Bless the World.
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
Charitable, yes....forced taxation and fines and penalties from the fed gov for not being part of their plan, nope.....
Oh and you do realize that alot of insurance policies won't cover you across STATE borders, let alone in foreign countries....thanks to Gov regulations...not the insurance companies....this is something everyone in our profession should check into for themselves to make sure you have coverage when you leave your home state....
Oh and you do realize that alot of insurance policies won't cover you across STATE borders, let alone in foreign countries....thanks to Gov regulations...not the insurance companies....this is something everyone in our profession should check into for themselves to make sure you have coverage when you leave your home state....
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This country is more that able to solve this problem, if there really is one. It can and must be done without force and with as little interference from the government. That is the only way we can remain free. We must take back our birthright of freedom.
The government throws around numbers like a furniture chain does. There is the big stink right now about the RNC using scare tactics, well, what is Obama and the DNC using to push Obama care? I don't see any difference.
I would be will to bet that they, the government, have no real idea what is going on with health care costs or why they are going up. I would be willing to bet that they have no idea just how many do not have insurance or why. I would like to know where they get their numbers but NOT ONE of the elected scum from my state will answer those questions when asked directly. Why is that? Is it possible that they are lying? Why won't they answer when asked?
Caring for ones health is the responsibility of the individual. It is my contention that government interference in that market is one of the main causes of price increases and I believe that if they take this part of our economy over the costs will skyrocket, the quality of care will degrade and there will be rationing like there is in the great European socialist systems.
I want control of my health care. I do not believe that anyone serving in this government is capable of decided what is best for my wife and I. I believe that WE are best able to make those choices. That is called FREEDOM. Anything else is slavery.
The government throws around numbers like a furniture chain does. There is the big stink right now about the RNC using scare tactics, well, what is Obama and the DNC using to push Obama care? I don't see any difference.
I would be will to bet that they, the government, have no real idea what is going on with health care costs or why they are going up. I would be willing to bet that they have no idea just how many do not have insurance or why. I would like to know where they get their numbers but NOT ONE of the elected scum from my state will answer those questions when asked directly. Why is that? Is it possible that they are lying? Why won't they answer when asked?
Caring for ones health is the responsibility of the individual. It is my contention that government interference in that market is one of the main causes of price increases and I believe that if they take this part of our economy over the costs will skyrocket, the quality of care will degrade and there will be rationing like there is in the great European socialist systems.
I want control of my health care. I do not believe that anyone serving in this government is capable of decided what is best for my wife and I. I believe that WE are best able to make those choices. That is called FREEDOM. Anything else is slavery.