The Cain Mutiny

[cheri1122]

Cheri,
There is something about your last set of comments that worry me. I don't know what it is but I have to tell you that sexual harassment is not abuse, rape or assault, it is on many levels a conceived notion based on being offended if it is not actually being a situation where one is told to do something outside the ethical boundaries.

Sorry - when the perpetrator is in a position of authority over the victim, it IS abuse. And the victim doesn't have to be 'told to do' anything - just the implication is enough, if the perception is that being offended will cost the victim a job, promotion, etc.
It's also abusive if it 'creates a hostile work environment', but I don't think that applies in this case - the implication is that Cain held power over the women.

I don't know if you went through any training for this or went through the process either as a victim or as a witness

I've been through the training, such as it is [usually a brief movie], but that's all - no involvement in any actual situations.

but I do find that one thing that stands out clear about this issue is that all parties involved are told not to talk about it and if there is a settlement, it is done to keep things quiet for the 'victim' whether they are a true victim or not.

Parties are instructed to agree to nondisclosure, yes, but not simply to 'protect the victim'. The perpetrator is also 'protected': from civil suits, and [surprise!] public exposure.

In cain's case, it is clear, he should not answer any questions about it but refer to the non-disclosure agreement in place.

If he wants to be nominated, much less elected, the people have a right to know what his character is, period.

With the other allegation of the other women, she should come up with some proof that either she was paid off or that she had a legit case. Without proper evidence, it is just speculation on the public's part and for the accuser, it is nothing more than a political ruse to damage someone no matter if it is true or not. You have to ask yourself why didn't she go to through the same process as the others before trying to say he is guilty.

There is no question that at least one woman was paid a year's salary.
A 'political ruse to damage someone' ? A smear campaign?
Sorry, neither applies: it's not a ruse [it happened]and if it damages Cain, it's his own fault.
People might be willing to overlook it, if he were honest and open - but he is neither, and that looks very very VERY bad in a presidential candidate.

PS the latest 'accuser' [with Gloria Allred beside her] is totally unbelievable, and irrelevant besides. All that counts is who spoke up years ago, before Cain was a contender.

 

[davekc]

Who knows if Cain is guilty or not. But one thing for sure, the minute you have Gloria Allred in the picture, it is pretty much a carnival. Last year she even had that Mexican maid deported while she was trying to throw Meg Whitman under the bus.
She is kinda the cross between a publicity and and a legal paparazzi.

 

[Turtle]

I've been through the training, such as it is [usually a brief movie], but that's all - no involvement in any actual situations.

I find it very hard to believe that you have never had any unwanted sexual advances towards you. I mean, uhm, like, you're one hot little puppy, Babe. <wink, wink>

 

[chefdennis]

just one more thing that makes you go ...Hmmmm..LOL..

Cain Accuser Sharon Bialek Lived In Same Building As David Axelrod | RealClearPolitics

 

[tbubster]

Here is what it really comes down to.A smear tatic.This issue was sellted already.All partys involved agreed to stay mum on it.It is that simply it is non of our business,If you think it is you are fooling youself.Again it was settled and all partys agreed to stay mum on it.The only reason it was brought up was to make him look bad.
This new woman is just looking for her book deal and her choice in lawyers proves that.She tried to hire one of the other womans lawyer and he said no,makes one think.

 

[layoutshooter]

Besides the media circus and the typical "she said, he said" is there ANY hard evidence that ANY of this harassment ever even took place? Cain does NOT have to prove that he did not do it. Were there any police reports? Charges filed? Anyone can make accusations, making them stick in a court of law is a different story.

I am not saying that these particular women are lying, but many women have lied about this sort of thing. Many men have been ruined for things that they did not do. Many men have lied and hurt women. Shoot many men have been harassed by women.

A news conference by an alleged victim is NOT proof. Neither are "cash settlements".

 

[RLENT]

Besides the media circus and the typical "she said, he said" is there ANY hard evidence that ANY of this harassment ever even took place?

Seriously ?

Probably not at this point ....

I suspect Herman is feeling sorta ... limp .... right now ....

 

[RLENT]

Sharon says all she did was shake hands with cain the last time she saw him and that was that she says.Yet other people have come forward to say this is not what happend in fact she was very egar to get back stage and she was hugging him.

Here's the problem with that Bubbie:

"The Republican presidential hopeful said he doesn't know Sharon Bialek, the woman represented by attorney Gloria Allred, nor does he even remember her name. He said he watched their press conference Monday from a hotel room.

""I don't even know who this woman is," he told reporters Tuesday. "I tried to remember if I remembered that name, and I didn't."

He tried to remember .... if he remembered ..... ?

This guy ain't shootin' for the Presidency - he's shootin' for the King of Inarticulate Political Double Speak and Babble ....

Too cute by half .... not

 

[muttly]

just one more thing that makes you go ...Hmmmm..LOL..

Cain Accuser Sharon Bialek Lived In Same Building As David Axelrod | RealClearPolitics

I'm sure that political hack had something to do with it.

 

[RLENT]

The Herminator apparently was asked today if would take a lie-detector test on the sexual harassment allegations.

Hermie said yes he would ...... if he had a good reason .....

Wonder what he figures might qualify ?

Witness,

Can I please get a facepalm for this one.

 

[Ragman]

The Herminator apparently was asked today if would take a lie-detector test on the sexual harassment allegations.

Hermie said yes he would ...... if he had a good reason .....

Wonder what he figures might qualify ?

Witness,

Can I please get a facepalm for this one.

The Witness-meister must be busy,
I'll do the honors.

 

[chefdennis]

and yet another thing that makes you go Hmmmm....

One woman who accused Cain of sexual harassment now works for Obama

POST WIRE SERVICES
Last Updated: 4:28 PM, November 8, 2011
Posted: 12:27 PM, November 8, 2011
One woman who accused Herman Cain of sexual harassment now works for Obama - NYPOST.com

GOP presidential hopeful Herman Cain argues that he's no sexual harasser -- but friends and family members of one accuser were only trying to right a wrong no woman should suffer in the workplace.

Karen Kraushaar, a 55-year-old former journalist who currently works for the Obama administration, was outed today as one of the three women who had filed sexual harassment complaints against Cain.

“She wouldn’t be the type to make false allegations,” brother-in-law Ned Kraushaar, a Georgia software consultant, told The Daily. “This happened [more than] 10 years ago. It’s not like she wanted to try and hurt the Republican Party.”

Until now, three of the four women who had lodged complaints against Cain had remained anonymous.

Kraushaar now serves as a communications director at the Inspector General’s Office of the Treasury Department, a position she has held since 2010.

She is “an extraordinarily good person,” said Jennie Williams, a friend and Atlanta equestrian. “She is very reliable and has lots of integrity. I don’t know what happened. I don’t want to know. Enough is enough. She is quality.”

Kraushaar did not return phone calls left by The Daily.

Politico first reported that two women had accused Cain, who leads many polls in the Republican presidential race, of sexual advances throughout the 1990s.

A fourth woman, Sharon Bialek, came forward yesterday.

At the same time, Cain’s presidential campaign is assailing the woman who accused him of groping her while she sought a job, presumably in an effort to undercut her credibility.

The Republican businessman’s advisers issued a news release Tuesday asking “Who is Sharon Bialek?” That document then outlines what it calls her “long and troubled history, from the courts to personal finances.”

It lists civil lawsuits that allegedly relate to her in the Cook County Court system in Illinois. It also quotes news reports mentioning her involvement in a paternity case and a bankruptcy filing.

The document contrasts that record with what it says is Cain’s “four decades spent climbing the corporate ladder rising to the level of CEO at multiple successful business enterprises.”

 

[RLENT]

The Witness-meister must be busy,
I'll do the honors.

Thank you sir !

 

[RLENT]

and yet another thing that makes you go Hmmmm....

dennis,

From what I read she is career - not a political appointee.

There are all kinds of folks that work for the Obama administration, by virtue of being employed by the executive branch ... probably even some conservative Republicans ....

So if she is actually career, well then ..... maybe not so much ...

BTW - the Cain campaign attempt to do a hit piece on Bialek - bad idea - big potential for backlash ..... and it's already started .....

I do have to say though, it is rather entertaining to watch Herman at work .... this guy is the definition of a walking, talking thermonuclear disaster, in a political/PR sense ... look in the dictionary and you see his picture ....

 

[cheri1122]

I find it very hard to believe that you have never had any unwanted sexual advances towards you. I mean, uhm, like, you're one hot little puppy, Babe. <wink, wink>

Puh leeeze - you know very well that unwanted does not constitute harassment, or the courts would be clogged with lawsuits. Worse than they already are, I mean.
And no one could afford to have a male dog, either.

 

[cheri1122]

dennis,

From what I read she is career - not a political appointee.

There are all kinds of folks that work for the Obama administration, by virtue of being employed by the executive branch ... probably even some conservative Republicans ....

So if she is actually career, well then ..... maybe not so much ...

BTW - the Cain campaign attempt to do a hit piece on Bialek - bad idea - big potential for backlash ..... and it's already started .....

I do have to say though, it is rather entertaining to watch Herman at work .... this guy is the definition of a walking, talking thermonuclear disaster, in a political/PR sense ... look in the dictionary and you see his picture ....

It's under H - not for 'Herminator' [snicker] but for 'hubris'.
He's just hilarious, trying to bluster his way out of it.....

 

[layoutshooter]

He's just hilarious, trying to bluster his way out of it.....
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He should not HAVE to "bluster" his way out of anything. It is the burden of the accuser to PROVE it with FACTS, not press conferences. Until his is PROVEN in a court of law to have done these things, he did not.

 

[RLENT]

It's under H - not for 'Herminator' [snicker] but for 'hubris'.
He's just hilarious, trying to bluster his way out of it.....

He's a real piece of work, that's for sure.

And you know it's getting bad when the talking head/pundit class start to laugh at and openly mock you ....

Ahhh ... did anyone ever consider that this guy's "success" might have just been a matter of pure luck .... rather than actual competence ?

 

[RLENT]

He should not HAVE to "bluster" his way out of anything. It is the burden of the accuser to PROVE it with FACTS, not press conferences. Until his is PROVEN in a court of law to have done these things, he did not.

In the legal sense that's true .... unfortunately for Herman, it isn't a matter of law at this point ..... it's a matter of PR ....

Also, in another sense: he either did them .... or not ....

What might happen in a court has no bearing whatsoever on the actuality of the matter.

 

[cheri1122]

He's just hilarious, trying to bluster his way out of it.....
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He should not HAVE to "bluster" his way out of anything.

Exactly. He should be ready and able to explain his past actions, not splutter and deny and then insist he's not gonna talk about it any more.
Cause we can see right through that , you know.

It is the burden of the accuser to PROVE it with FACTS, not press conferences. Until his is PROVEN in a court of law to have done these things, he did not.

The accuser [press] has said Cain was the target of more than one sexual harrassment complaint in the past, and that has proven to be true.
Whether he was guilty has not - but NOT because he or the [then] accuser had their day in court, but because one of the things money can buy is the ability to make such inconvenient accusations disappear by paying the accuser a large sum of money. The money was paid to prevent the matter from being resolved in a court of law.
So the law only applies to those who can't afford to pay off the complaints?